#1
I love the jazz fusion stuff that Cynic does, and I want to play and write like that but I dont know how. Here's and example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qHwfLAIrdg
Note the beginning clean stuff.
How do I write stuff like that??? What scales/chords/theorys/rhythms should I use???? I try to do it in the clean parts of these songs I attached and wrote, but It doesn't sound write.
Note the beginning in The Epiphany and the interlude in Scars of Salvation. I am only 13 so my skills are limited, but please help me learn stuff like that.
Attachments:
Songs.zip
#3
How's your theory? The key to writing jazz fusion is to have a decent knowlege of theory to build off of.
#4
Study jazz, learn a lot about chords and extensions, inversions and all of that jazz (lolz!).
#6
Quote by bulletrocks522
I love the jazz fusion stuff that Cynic does, and I want to play and write like that but I dont know how. Here's and example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qHwfLAIrdg
Note the beginning clean stuff.
How do I write stuff like that??? What scales/chords/theorys/rhythms should I use???? I try to do it in the clean parts of these songs I attached and wrote, but It doesn't sound write.
Note the beginning in The Epiphany and the interlude in Scars of Salvation. I am only 13 so my skills are limited, but please help me learn stuff like that.


Hey, we meet again! Well first of all, I must congratulate you on listen to awesome bands like Cynic at the age of 13, I thought I was the only one!

The first thing to do is listen to some jazz fusion that would have influenced cynic-some good examples are allan holdsworth, al di meola, mahavishnu orchestra etc.

The jazz fusion sections in Cynic's music use alot of strange chord voicings, etc. Learn some of their stuff and you will see. Expand your chord vocab and learn where to put these chords in your songs.
#7
Learn complex jazz chord extensions, learn how they sound, and string chord progressions out of them, based on how they sound to you. Learn to improvise over fast changing chord progressions as such that you see in jazz, and start using it to create melodies over these chord progressions.

But the crucial point to it is the groove. Notice how all of the cynic songs have an unmistakeably complex, lively groove, that almost wants to make you wanna dance? IMO, it's that what makes them so good.
#8
Quote by bulletrocks522
What scales are used???


No. It doesn't work that way. If you want to play fusion with any level of competence, you need to get yourself a teacher, start transcribing jazz songs, and start studying music theory. No scale is going to make you sound like jazz (or anything, for that matter).
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#9
If you want to learn something about chords and chord voicings in jazz fusion or in general I'd recommend listening to some Allan Holdsworth. You could pretty much pull any one of his tunes out of a hat and learn a hundred new voicings and ways to implement them. They're all beautiful too.
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#10
Quote by Archeo Avis
No. It doesn't work that way. If you want to play fusion with any level of competence, you need to get yourself a teacher, start transcribing jazz songs, and start studying music theory. No scale is going to make you sound like jazz (or anything, for that matter).


'What scale do I use' is for some reason the most asked question is this forum...
#11
Quote by Myung-trucci
'What scale do I use' is for some reason the most asked question is this forum...

That's probably because people don't have a good foundation on theory and only think people use scales to get the job done.

To TS: Study Jazz Fusion or just jazz in general. I'd recomment some Allan Holdsworth (some insane chord voicings), and learn some Cynic. Alot of their stuff sounds like they're using alot of extended chords.

Keep in mind though, they probably spent months/years perfecting this style to suit them. It'll take you just as long, if not longer since you're skills aren't as polished as theirs, to be able to completely emulate their style, or just use it for yourself. Though the latter wouldn't take quite as long as the former.

EDIT: Learn theory as well xD Alot. I can't believe I forgot to mention that
Last edited by DiminishedFifth at Mar 23, 2009,
#12
Quote by bulletrocks522
I love the jazz fusion stuff that Cynic does, and I want to play and write like that but I dont know how. Here's and example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qHwfLAIrdg
Note the beginning clean stuff.
How do I write stuff like that??? What scales/chords/theorys/rhythms should I use???? I try to do it in the clean parts of these songs I attached and wrote, but It doesn't sound write.
Note the beginning in The Epiphany and the interlude in Scars of Salvation. I am only 13 so my skills are limited, but please help me learn stuff like that.


Learn their music and a find out for yourself. If you don't have the theory background to understand it..... start studying theory. Then put 2 and 2 together.

Basically......you need experience. Even if you don't understand theory, you can learn to play their music and get alot out of it.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Mar 23, 2009,
#13
Quote by Archeo Avis
No. It doesn't work that way. If you want to play fusion with any level of competence, you need to get yourself a teacher, start transcribing jazz songs, and start studying music theory. No scale is going to make you sound like jazz (or anything, for that matter).


You might think hes a dick for saying it like that, but its true. Especially for music as complex as jazz. That really isnt how it works at all. The only way to really start writing and playing like that is to start studying jazz and fusion. That means transcribing, listening, reading music, studying theory (no matter how rudimentary a level you have to start at), and yes, probably getting a teacher.

It will probably at least take a year or maybe more before you can even make up simple ideas in a jazz style, and a few more before you start forming coherent jazz thoughts.

Dont take me wrong, learning jazz is fun and in my experience, the most rewarding genre of music out there. But dont under estimate it because its more work then Im sure you think
#14
theirs no shortcut to being able to sound jazzy, you can't just use a certain scale and immediately sound like a jazz player. Some people spend their entire life understanding and developing jazz compositional techniques and devices. Heres some basic jazz theory stuff you could research:

*consonance and dissonance
*7th chords
*dim chords
*chord extensions, upper structures and hybrid chords
*cadences especially ii-V-I
*chord functions
*secondary dominants
*back cycling dominants
*related ii's
*contiguous dominants
*voice leading especially rooted and rootless voicings
*types of modulation
*substitution in tonal and modal contexts
*tritone subs
*side stepping

the list can go on and on...
you are what you is
#15
Quote by bulletrocks522
I am only 13 so my skills are limited


.... No not really.
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Im sorry, I just don't see how you could argue that hardcore isn't metal. That just seems arrogant to me.

Yes, its its own kind of metal, but its still metal.
#16
Quote by mergapoot
theirs no shortcut to being able to sound jazzy, you can't just use a certain scale and immediately sound like a jazz player. Some people spend their entire life understanding and developing jazz compositional techniques and devices. Heres some basic jazz theory stuff you could research:

*consonance and dissonance
*7th chords
*dim chords
*chord extensions, upper structures and hybrid chords
*cadences especially ii-V-I
*chord functions
*secondary dominants
*back cycling dominants
*related ii's
*contiguous dominants
*voice leading especially rooted and rootless voicings
*types of modulation
*substitution in tonal and modal contexts
*tritone subs
*side stepping

the list can go on and on...


Or you could just focus on the music and learn those things in context.....when your ready for them.

without context, and to a person that lacks the fundamentals, those are just fancy words.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Mar 24, 2009,
#17
ohh jazz fusion and yes cynic is amazing but thats a tough one your def gonna want to hit the thoery books on this one its probably gonna take you a long time to understand whats going on in cynic's songs.
#18
Quote by 08L1V10N
.... No not really.

I would have to agree, you're scarily good..
Call me Batman.
#19
Quote by bulletrocks522
What scales are used???


They use the BeBop scale among others. Especially on Traced in Air like Evolutionary Sleeper.

It really shouldn't have taken an entire page before someone answered this, then again maybe Cynic's not everyone's favorite band.
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I disagree Slipknot is more technical than Necrophagist and more brutal than Suffocation, that's why I do hardcore dances to it with my 14 year old friends.
#20
Quote by 08L1V10N
.... No not really.


I know, I checked out TS's profile and he can play not just for a 13 year old, for anyone.
Quote by BigRudy
I disagree Slipknot is more technical than Necrophagist and more brutal than Suffocation, that's why I do hardcore dances to it with my 14 year old friends.
#21
just sayin, just becuase it has clean guitar, doesn't mean its jazz or jazz fusion. both of those genres are miles apart from what cynic is playing. there is a decent chunk of fusion in cynic's playing, but there's little to no jazz coming in.
sorry, just putting that out there
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#22
Quote by slashNpage77
just sayin, just becuase it has clean guitar, doesn't mean its jazz or jazz fusion. both of those genres are miles apart from what cynic is playing. there is a decent chunk of fusion in cynic's playing, but there's little to no jazz coming in.
sorry, just putting that out there


The term "fusion" is generally applied to a melding of jazz with some other musical style.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#23
Quote by Archeo Avis
The term "fusion" is generally applied to a melding of jazz with some other musical style.

i know, but what i'm saying is that i hear some general rock fusion (ie. guthrie govan) stuff in cynic's stuff, but no direct correlation to jazz
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