#1
I wrote this not too long ago. I was experimenting with alternate tunings and this is what I came up with. I think it would work great as an intro to a show or album or something, so be forewarned, it's short.

As said, it was inspired by Cynic and Veil of Maya. I'm pretty sure you can hear Veil of Maya more though... that's ok :]

The ending, before I get any "it doesn't resolve", that's what I wanted. It's an intro, so (in my eyes anyways ) it's supposed to leave a feeling of dissolution so the next song can take it away.

Anyways, C4C. Have fun with it :]

I need a good theme for the songs... I want something dark (i'm so cliche... T_T). Like.. something catastrophic, but i'm having a hard time coming up with anything. Any help?

Things changed (03/30/09):

      Attachments:
      Most Recent Update.zip
      Last edited by DiminishedFifth at Mar 31, 2009,
      #3
      First, let me say I love Cynic.

      Second, let me say that this doesnt sound at all like Cynic. It does sound like you were trying to clone Cynic, which is not a good idea. Things started with promise but it wasnt interesting enough. The drums and bass werent active enough. The guitars werent using interesting enough voicings/chords... The chugging in the background later on was also a terrible idea. Sounded like metalcore. BAD metalcore.

      You got my hopes up saying it was influenced by Cynic. I suppose I should have known not to.
      #5
      Thank you for the positive crit guys ^^ It means alot

      And Burning_Angel, there's a difference between influence and sounding alike. Like I said in the OP, it's inspired by Veil of Maya and Cynic. The Veil of Maya influence is more prominent, as I pretty much just got the idea for the song from Cynic. Though, I know why you were disappointed. I wish I could change the topic title, but I can't. It's a mix of my own style and Cynic/Veil of Maya (which were heavily Cynic inspired and are more Deathcore than Cynic). Thank you for your input though :] It is just an intro ;] And I agree on the chord voicings being to simple. They're just you're run of the mill 9/11 chords. It's not like I was jazz-trained like them! xD
      Last edited by DiminishedFifth at Mar 23, 2009,
      #6
      First of all, let start by saying you have some of the best influences and tastes.
      Second of all your writing style is so true, and by that i mean your able to draw a specific attribute from other bands but yet incorperate your style to it pretty much making it a compleatly new sound and vibe. Very few guitarist/writers are able to do that, especially now-days.

      I loved everything, it flowed very well and i wouldn't change anything for the world.

      Also, would you like to crit my new meterial?

      https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1088086
      If anyone would like to collaborate with me via internetz, pm me.
      #7
      The clean part was great! Nice bass lines in there. I liked the progression, it builds up in a strange way...

      Bar 27 sounds so evil, I love it!

      Finish this stuff man, it's got great potential!!!

      9/10

      Thx for the crit!
      #8
      Clean jazz at the start is great, and the bassing suited very well.
      You worked the strings in good.

      Kinda hard to crit since its just one riff with some stuff going around it. Bit from what I heard its good. Feels like its going somewhere.
      #10
      Wow. I... Wow. I can barely think of anything negative about this. o_o

      Usually I can find a lot of negative in -everything-. I love the time signature, especially the bass trills.

      I don't know if this is what you were shooting for, but when the steady beat kicks in, I don't know. It seems too simple, compared to the awesome of the intro.

      PM me when this is done! I really want to hear more.

      Haha. Sorry if this isn't what you expected, what with the awesome review of my song. Make something worse if you want criticism. >_>
      Last edited by kirbix at Mar 28, 2009,
      #11
      I think this has some promise but needs some work. As Burning Angel said, it did come together in the beginning. The 5/4 part was really haunting and the harmonies between the guitars sounded interesting. I loved it up to about measure 9, and liked it up to about measure 17. The chugging didn't really add much to the feel of the song. I think if you take that out and do something more interesting with the bass part, like arpeggios or even a little lead bass part, something more reminiscient of Sean Malone. The drums, as said before, lacked activity. The chords afterwards recaptured that haunting feel that I think you were going for though, so good work on that part.

      I really want to see what you do with the rest of it. Hopefully it's as good as your other stuff.

      C4C? The new one is Progressive Metal 2 in the sig.
      #12
      Nothing Amazing. Sounded pretty mystical and evil Bass guitar got nice patterns there. I think this will work being an intro song.
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      #13
      sounds awesome, if you'd switch out the chugging with a pattern or two it'd be perfect
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      #14
      Alright, I took some of your advice, and I mixed up the drums in the last section. At first it was very slapdash. Just kinda did it. Now I think it's at least a little bit better.

      Things changed (03/30/09):



          I'll put it in the OP.
          Last edited by DiminishedFifth at Mar 30, 2009,
          #15
          Hats off to you my fellow Cynic fan for this brilliant piece!

          The beginning is really good, i loved the clean guitars in the intro, and also how the distortion and bass complimented it. It was dissonant yet it still sounded really good.
          The bass at bar 5 went very well and the bass riff starting at bar 9 went brilliantly with the distorted chords.
          I thought that the synth sounded great, very chilling and a great way to lead into the next song.

          The beginning of the new song sounds brilliant, some of the riffs and guitar harmonies there are really cynic-like.

          I'm looking forward to hearing the final product as this sounds very promising.

          Kudos to you!
          The lives of thousands in my hands
          I’ve come to take back what’s rightfully mine and now you’re damned
          The lights grow dark in their homes
          But our road is lit by fire from the sky
          So we push forward



          Last.fm
          #16
          Catastrophic eh? This starting riff gives me the chills... it reminds me of moon. So I'd start writing something about moon rising as red and it turns people into raging beasts or mindless zombies or something... Something like werewolves would be cool.

          I'm listening the midi, because I don't currently have my gp5.

          The first and second riff go together nicely, but I'd define the drums some more. Make them more concrete maybe. You don't have to use kd and snare, just play with rides and hat, but give it some beat and not just random noises. Play with the dynamics. If you decide to make 16th pattern with ride, then accent the first note as f and then the other notes like mp and p.

          I definately like those guitars there though.

          Now at 0:37 - 1:09, its otherwise pretty good, but I'd propably change those descending parts to match harmonic minor or some oriental scale. Like at 0:52 it goes something like B:12-10-9-7 and there's this Maj feel to it that I'm not a big fan of in songs like these. I'd change it to something like B:12-11-8-7, if you wanna end it to F#.

          That keyboard part is nice and calm. I wouldn't change it too much. That final riff is pretty crazy. I'd propably just change that drum beat to something more straight forward... imo it would fit the guitars better. But I guess this is your own style.

          Overall, the song is well written, but it's not something I'd listen to. It's just too different to my taste. I've never really listened anything like this, so I can't really even tell you what to do here. I just told what I'd change to make to song a little more appealing to me.

          The later part sounds a little like something from a movie, actually. That run at 1:57 is something that just sounds wrong to me. Also I'd propably create more tension at the end, if this is to be an intro for something. I'd slow it down a little and put some strokes there with ascending feel to it.

          Most of this song work well... and the parts that in my opinion don't... well I don't even know if they are supposed to be changed. You know what I mean.
          Last edited by January85 at Apr 3, 2009,
          #17
          Quote by January85
          Catastrophic eh? This starting riff gives me the chills... it reminds me of moon. So I'd start writing something about moon rising as red and it turns people into raging beasts or mindless zombies or something... Something like werewolves would be cool.


          Haha that'd be interesting... i'm not sure about it though xD It seems like it would be an interesting concept.

          Now at 0:37 - 1:09, its otherwise pretty good, but I'd propably change those descending parts to match harmonic minor or some oriental scale. Like at 0:52 it goes something like B:12-10-9-7 and there's this Maj feel to it that I'm not a big fan of in songs like these. I'd change it to something like B:12-11-8-7, if you wanna end it to F#.


          It actually does match Harmonic minor. It just goes between the F# and G more than the A# and B.

          That keyboard part is nice and calm. I wouldn't change it too much. That final riff is pretty crazy. I'd propably just change that drum beat to something more straight forward... imo it would fit the guitars better. But I guess this is your own style.

          The later part sounds a little like something from a movie, actually. That run at 1:57 is something that just sounds wrong to me. Also I'd propably create more tension at the end, if this is to be an intro for something. I'd slow it down a little and put some strokes there with ascending feel to it.


          Well, the last riff that you heard is a new song xD It's the first full song on the "album" that i'm going to eventually finish. The solo keyboard part that creates tension and then resolves it before it goes into the clean guitar is the unresolved tension.. it's a sus4 chord, so it has a very "neutral" feel to it.

          Overall, the song is well written, but it's not something I'd listen to. It's just too different to my taste. I've never really listened anything like this, so I can't really even tell you what to do here. I just told what I'd change to make to song a little more appealing to me.


          Haha I figured so much. But I still wanted your opinion, as you are an amazing songwriter.

          And thank you for the crit :]
          #18
          f u c k man. i dont know where to start. this is amazing. everything about this is amzing. can u pm me when u record it?
          #19
          Great bass line, although the guitars were a bit dissonant for me. Very-Cynic like. 8.5-10

          Check mine, mine is the Progressive Metal sond (t3h br00tz)
          #21
          On that new song, I can hear cynic a lot now.

          And it's just awesome. I like the begin new song a lot. i'd like to see it finished. Seriously, i was surprised, cause the beginning just wasnt for me, but the new one is damn good.
          #22
          Wow, that was great. You can tell it was influenced by Veil of Maya (awesome song). I can't think of much to criticize, I just want to hear it when it is finished :p
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          #23
          Quote by Burning_Angel
          On that new song, I can hear cynic a lot now.

          And it's just awesome. I like the begin new song a lot. i'd like to see it finished. Seriously, i was surprised, cause the beginning just wasnt for me, but the new one is damn good.

          Haha thank you for the praise :]
          I've spent alot of time on the beginning, coming up with an interesting chord progression that doesn't really indicate a key aside from a B-something.

          Quote by grobbo91
          Wow, that was great. You can tell it was influenced by Veil of Maya (awesome song). I can't think of much to criticize, I just want to hear it when it is finished :p


          It's influenced more by Veil of Maya the band, rather than the song... but it is a very good song :]

          And thank you ^^
          #24
          Death Metal isn't a favourite genre of mine, but I'll put aside my opinions for this. :P

          The 5/4 time was very nice, and you made a good use of it, normally in weird time signatures stuff sounds awkward and forced, but you did very well here in making it 'smooth'.

          The bass solo was a nice touch at the begining.

          The part at 9 untill 16 was very cool, I like what the guitars are doing with the chords in the background.

          The warm pad really sets off the chugging-breakdown type part aswell, add's a really eerie atmosphere to the song. The breakdown itself (What the guitars are doing etc) is awesome. Simple, but really good riff.

          At 25 when the pad goes on on it's own for a while, that's very nice. It has an almost ambient feel to it, and it leads onto the next song very well.

          The clean guitars in the song part were really cool. The bassline was weird when it came in, but I don't really know much about this genre. So if you like it - Keep it. The bit at 49 kind of seemed a bit cheesy? A little, anyways.

          53 & 54 were good, I like the way you go down to the 1 3 x 4 3 chord (Whatever it might be) at the end, instead of a chord in the scale. It add's a really cool 'vibe' there.

          Overall, good job so far!
          Keep it up. 9/10
          I deeply regret the 6661 in my username. Siiiigh. Damn you, 14 year old me, you edgy little bastard.
          #25
          Everything is wonderful. I loved the atmosphere all the way through.

          I don't have a problem with the chugging, unlike everyone else. lol I feel like it actually DOES add to the song, and enhances the feeling.

          I absolutely love the strings/keys throughout.

          I really like the incorporation of open strings you have in the "creepy" sections.

          I'm not gonna lie, I lovelovelove 46-54. It's so... Unique? I have never heard jazz/funk-metal (other than some of my songs), and I love it so dearly. The bass needs to come out a lot more in that section though. It's a good line. Also, I can't hear the octaves in 51.

          Also, I really like that you have more than one tuning in the song, especially that it plays at the same time and doesn't sound like crap. That's a hard thing to do if you don't just transpose the notes.

          And, I just thought I'd throw in that this sounds like something you'd hear in Bleach, and I love the music in that anime. lol

          To close, I'd like to say that I really wanted to find something wrong with this. The only thing I found are balancing issues. Great job man. I'd probably beg you to join my band if you lived here. lol
          #26
          The only thing dissapointing in this piece is the fact that it's not completed yet =(

          I guess it got a bit of the spacy feeling Cynic can pull off, but I like the fact that you didn't exactly try to copy them, and did your own thing with it.

          I'd say in the Intro part the guitars are always playing perfectly with each other, The bass was really good until it got to about measure #12, there's something there that sounds too mechanical, considering the floaty feel of the guitars.

          Also the drums in the intro did not really add anything of value, but generally I'm laxer on that than other instruments, still, it would sound a lot better if the drums had a more solid groove, pocket, or something to hold everything together better.

          The switch to the new song works, but just that, I think it could be worked on substantially, and the riffing is pretty good, but just gives a small taste of things to come - keep working on this, eager to hear more =)
          #27
          I hate to do crits on songs that already have so many crits, but I have to say this made my jaw drop. In a good way.
          I think the Cynic influence is much more obvious than the Veil Of Maya influence, by the way.
          I'll move on to other songs of yours for real crits.
          #28
          Seems like to be pretty progressive. First eight bars: I loved bassline, the harmony worked well. 8-16, still beautiful, creates nice feeling, very chilly. 17-24 sounds like backing track for movie where war is going to start. Synth was nice.
          10/10 as starting song for a new album.
          #29
          I really hate how the modern day reference for heavy riffing in metal is -core. I have no problem with hardcore done right, but the reason why bands like Cynic, Atheist, Pestilence, and Gorguts are revered to this day is because they did something truly different, and above all, had dynamics. You can chug-a-lug through multiple time changes all day long, but there's nothing dynamic about 'dun dun...dun..dun..dun...dun dun dun dun'.
          Maybe U2 wouldn't suck so hard if they stopped preaching and started rocking instead. Of course, that's difficult to do with Pantera holding a near monopoly on all things that rock.
          -Maddox.
          #30
          Quote by Cafas
          I really hate how the modern day reference for heavy riffing in metal is -core. I have no problem with hardcore done right, but the reason why bands like Cynic, Atheist, Pestilence, and Gorguts are revered to this day is because they did something truly different, and above all, had dynamics. You can chug-a-lug through multiple time changes all day long, but there's nothing dynamic about 'dun dun...dun..dun..dun...dun dun dun dun'.


          "core" covers a small fraction of metal. It does not at all mean metal. And "core" bands can be drastically different as it is a broad term. For example, Enter Shikari, Iwrestledabearonce, and Born Of Osiris are all "core" bands. I'm sure no one would argue they were similar.
          #31
          I'm quite familiar with those bands and -core, and in the case of a group like BoO, they do nothing new or original.
          Maybe U2 wouldn't suck so hard if they stopped preaching and started rocking instead. Of course, that's difficult to do with Pantera holding a near monopoly on all things that rock.
          -Maddox.
          #32
          Quote by Cafas
          I really hate how the modern day reference for heavy riffing in metal is -core. I have no problem with hardcore done right, but the reason why bands like Cynic, Atheist, Pestilence, and Gorguts are revered to this day is because they did something truly different, and above all, had dynamics. You can chug-a-lug through multiple time changes all day long, but there's nothing dynamic about 'dun dun...dun..dun..dun...dun dun dun dun'.

          What are you talking about? I never once claimed any sort of -core.

          You'd be surprised what chugging can do. Especially very awkward rhythms. They can set the bar for a weird melody or harmony coming up, they can provide the rhythm/harmony under a melody. You can't just write something off because some -core genre's do it and people like it.
          #33
          No, but I can write it off if I don't like. If I say something bad about core, or anything, it's not because of a common stigma, it's because of my own personal experience. There's also nothing wrong with chugging in theory, it's just another technique to get your point across. Unfortunately, like most abused techniques, some bands have driven it right into the ground, along with sweep picking and your typical diminished patterns. I just don't get the appeal of bands like Veil of Maya, especially since, from the songs I've heard, they just bite on a lot of Gothenburg bands and add technicality and breakdowns to try and make the sound original.

          I'm sorry, but you can put all the time changes and outside influences you want, it's still obvious what bands you sound like (not addressed at TC).
          Maybe U2 wouldn't suck so hard if they stopped preaching and started rocking instead. Of course, that's difficult to do with Pantera holding a near monopoly on all things that rock.
          -Maddox.
          #34
          Quote by Cafas
          No, but I can write it off if I don't like. If I say something bad about core, or anything, it's not because of a common stigma, it's because of my own personal experience. There's also nothing wrong with chugging in theory, it's just another technique to get your point across. Unfortunately, like most abused techniques, some bands have driven it right into the ground, along with sweep picking and your typical diminished patterns. I just don't get the appeal of bands like Veil of Maya, especially since, from the songs I've heard, they just bite on a lot of Gothenburg bands and add technicality and breakdowns to try and make the sound original.

          I'm sorry, but you can put all the time changes and outside influences you want, it's still obvious what bands you sound like (not addressed at TC).

          I understand what you're saying, and, hey, we all have that genre that we just don't like for one (or many) reason or another.

          Being the TS, I would like to know what you think of the song you're commenting on ;]
          #35
          You are one of the few composers around here people flock too when you post something, and for a good reason. I've heard some of your previous works and they are great. You create atmospheric music, to say the least. This is no different. The intro is really well done. I really love the Cynic style, just because so many tonal colors are at play. The only issue I had was during the final 2 bars of the "new song." The dotted notes seemed to take away from the rhythm, and additionally those chord selections seemed to go against the melody that was created earlier. In addition, I wouldn't mind the slower part also repeating (or continuing with additional melody). As a whole its good though!

          C4C please: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1270557
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          #36
          Cynic are pretty much my favourite band, and you took the best things about them and made them your own. The chugging was excellent, instead of sounding like metalcore (like that guy said) it just gave the song a lot of texture. I would love to hear a finished piece, and I wouldn't change anything about this so far. The bit it ends on has so much potential for a full out prog metal riff.
          #37
          The rhythmic chugging is what makes the core genres awesome. It's not just a wall of noise the whole time lol. Everyone likes there own thing anyway lol.