#1
Just found out that my cousin is going to prison for 43 years .

WHat happened was that he was attacked in a parking lot by three guys, he managed to get his shotgun and he shot all three guys and killed them.
He didnt know what to do, so he went to the police station.
and explained what happened.

unfortunatly, they arrested him anyhow. and charged him with murder.

he went to court and still got charged for murder but sentence is shorter because of self defense. but 43 years???

sigh...
#3
sucks. unfortunately some municipalities have laws like that.

they may have seen that using a shotgun was excessive, but overall if those three punks didn't **** around, nothing bad would have happened
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#4
Well how can form an opinion without knowing any circumstances. Were the attackers armed?
#6
That sucks but it's life, and it's happening to other people. A similar story made the front page of the Toronto Sun today.
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#7
If the attackers were unarmed, several shotgun related deaths may have been unnecessary.

However, if to the contrary they were in fact packing, you could argue that 40+ years is a tad deep...
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#8
Well a shotgun is a little excessive. He could've blown their kneecaps away and been fine. No need to kill em. But I wasn't there so I don't know how it went down. Sorry man, that sucks.
#9
Below the waist can be considered self defense, but I don't think murder can be avoided when he flat out killed the **** out of them. Sorry dude.
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#10
Really depends on the circumstances doesn't it?

You're not telling the whole story, and killing 3 people sounds like it very well may have been excessive use of force.
#11
**** man, that really sucks. At least he wont get **** from the other prisoners
"what're you in for?"
"I killed three gangsters at point blank with a shotgun"
"yeah i'm just gonna go stand over here now..."

any chance he'll be able to appeal the case?
#12
Quote by Erik_Aero
Well how can form an opinion without knowing any circumstances. Were the attackers armed?



IMO that should be inconsequential.

if your cousin had been killed they would be singing a whole different tune.
the fact of the matter is that he was attacked, and whether or not he was injured, or killed, shouldn't change the fact that he did what he had to do to defend himself.
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#13
He is an ex marine, so he was a gun permit. and he always has a shotgun, because he lives a bad neighbor hood in Bronx.

no the attackers were not armed, but they physically attacked him.
my cousin is a pretty big guy so im not suprised he got out and manged to do his own business.

this is all i know, if something else comes up. ill make sure i let you know
#14
Quote by tona_107
IMO that should be inconsequential.

if your cousin had been killed they would be singing a whole different tune.
the fact of the matter is that he was attacked, and whether or not he was injured, or killed, shouldn't change the fact that he did what he had to do to defend himself.


So if a couple kids come up to you and start giving you a hard time it's OK to take out a shotgun and blow them all away? I don't think so.
#15
I agree with freedoms stain though, i dont think your really telling the whole story.


and without knowing what truly happened and the backgrounds of those involved no UGer can make an accurate opinion about the outcome of this situation.
Last edited by Tedward at Mar 23, 2009,
#16
It kind of sounds like self-defense, but it could also sound pretty excessive. The word "attacked" can mean a lot of different things.
#17
Quote by Veritas_Saint
He is an ex marine, so he was a gun permit. and he always has a shotgun, because he lives a bad neighbor hood in Bronx.

no the attackers were not armed, but they physically attacked him.
my cousin is a pretty big guy so im not suprised he got out and manged to do his own business.

this is all i know, if something else comes up. ill make sure i let you know


a real marine would have been able to handle himself without the shotgun, but nonetheless, you gotta do what you gotta do to feel safe
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#18
Quote by Veritas_Saint
He is an ex marine, so he was a gun permit. and he always has a shotgun, because he lives a bad neighbor hood in Bronx.

no the attackers were not armed, but they physically attacked him.
my cousin is a pretty big guy so im not suprised he got out and manged to do his own business.

this is all i know, if something else comes up. ill make sure i let you know


If he's an ex marine, he should be quick witted enough to go for a self defense shot than a kill.

However, since he lives in the Bronx, he did the world a favor.
#19
I see that as excessive. He could have fired warning shots to scare the punks, and if they kept attacking he could have only shot one of them in the leg. I highly doubt three unarmed guys would continue attacking him. From here he could have gotten in his car and drove to the police department to report that he was attacked.

I'm sorry about the circumstance, though. That really sucks.
Last edited by dudius at Mar 23, 2009,
#20
He murdered 3 unarmed people, what did you expect? He's lucky he only got 43 years given the US's draconian penal system. I highly doubt killing three of them was justified... indeed, I highly doubt killing any of them was justified.

In NZ he would have gone to jail for just a) carrying the gun or b) pointing it at them, let alone murdering them.
Last edited by Kiwi Ace at Mar 23, 2009,
#21
Quote by JLT73
a real marine would have been able to handle himself without the shotgun, but nonetheless, you gotta do what you gotta do to feel safe


lol you think everyone marine can get himself out of danger?
you make it sound like hes a ****en kung fu master

im just telling you what my uncle told me.

i dont know the REAL story because i was never there. but this is what the court listened to.
#22
Isn't it funny how criminals' family members are always convinced of their innocence?
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#23
Quote by StewieSwan
Isn't it funny how criminals' family members are always convinced of their innocence?


Not really. They are family, unless you know something is fvcked up, it's safe to assume you would believe them. Or did this guy just go on a gangster killing spree before turning himself into the cops? That makes about the equal amount of sense.
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#24
where was the shotgun originally before he got it? where was he attacked? did the attackers chase him after he broke free? or did he get his shotgun from his house and hunt them down? too many unanswered questions. i have a feeling he did sometihng pretty stupid. well...killing all three was stupid...just shooting into the ground wouldve been enough to scare them off. or even just shooting one wouldve been enough. Killing all three was definitely excessive.
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#25
Quote by Veritas_Saint
lol you think everyone marine can get himself out of danger?
you make it sound like hes a ****en kung fu master

im just telling you what my uncle told me.

i dont know the REAL story because i was never there. but this is what the court listened to.


the self defense moves they are drilled would be more than what the "average" person would know. With those moves he would have been able to neutralize just about any situation without lethal force.

But with some punks attacking **** it, 3 less thugs to cause problems for other people
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#26
I doubt that he had to kill them. But they might have been all choking him or something?

Maybe he couldn't aim the shotgun right because they were all on him and choking him and he would have been killed so he just fired it?



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#28
he was going to his car from work, in new york we have underground garages. a lot of times at night, thugs hang out and wait to rob someone.

he said when he was bout to get in his car, he was thrown to the ground, and stomped/beaten etc. he managed to get up push them off, and grab his shotgun from his backseat.

and he just shot. thats all he said.

then went straight to the station.
#29
I think a shotgun is little much. A regular pistol would of been okay. Although it was in self-defense but he should have aimed at at a point where it wouldn't have killed them like at their legs.
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#30
Quote by Veritas_Saint
He is an ex marine, so he was a gun permit. and he always has a shotgun, because he lives a bad neighbor hood in Bronx.

no the attackers were not armed, but they physically attacked him.
my cousin is a pretty big guy so im not suprised he got out and manged to do his own business.

this is all i know, if something else comes up. ill make sure i let you know


He's a former marine, so he should no hand to hand combat, and he's a big guy, so he should be able to hold his own.

He could obviously hold his own enough to get to his car and take out his shotgun, and shoot one. So there probably wasn't any need for the shotgun to begin with. Hell he could've just clubbed one over the head and pointed it at the others and told them to get the **** out.

I don't think there's any way he could have killed all three with one shot, which means he would've purposely shot at all of them.

Unless the kids we're complete idiots, they would've ran their asses off after the first got shot, so for them to be shot and killed means it's not self defense anymore.

he was going to his car from work, in new york we have underground garages. a lot of times at night, thugs hang out and wait to rob someone.

he said when he was bout to get in his car, he was thrown to the ground, and stomped/beaten etc. he managed to get up push them off, and grab his shotgun from his backseat.

and he just shot. thats all he said.

then went straight to the station.


He used to be a marine, and he just blindly shot?

Aren't marines trained to keep their cool in these kidns of situations, and to be disciplined and not just shoot wildly at anything that moves?
#31
You can't use lethal force unless you believe your life is in jepoardy
If he truly believed his life was in peril then killing those men may be justified in court but otherwise hes f*cked
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#32
Common sense would tell a person in that situation to shoot a cautionary bullet into the air to ward them off, or if they persisted then in their feet or legs. I don't get why he felt the need for a shot to the torso.

Yeah the whole situation sucks... but you never know, maybe your cuz was a murder waiting to happen and it's just.
#33
lol guys i didnt commit the crime, you ask questions that i cannot answer.

i dont know what he was thinking, maybe he was ****en brainwashed from war. maybe it was a reaction where he thought he was in war still so he just shot.

i do not know, i just feel so bad. im gonna go visit him soon.