#1
I'm hesitant to ask this, before I do though I'd like to say:

I have read the sticky.
I have devoted time outside of being online to reading theory books.
I have used other sources besides UG.

So I kind of feel like I should be okay asking this. Every Tuesday, I go to a music store that isn't too far from my house and I take lessons. Recently the conversation turned to modes and the history of modal music. I had heard that previously the Locrian mode only theoretically existed in classical music, so we kind of started talking about it and we reached a disagreement.

He told me that you could play the B Locrian scale, over a C major chord, and still call it B Locrian. I told him, as respectfully as I could, that I was pretty sure that if he did that he would still be playing C Major, just emphasizing the wrong notes.

My stance on the issue was that if you were going to play B Locrian, you would need to play it over a Bm7b5 chord. So is one of us right? Both of us wrong? Eh?
To be brave is to take action in spite of fear. It is impossible to be brave without first being afraid. To take action without fear is not brave, it is foolish.
#3
Your both wrong. You don't need a Bm7b5 chord, you just need B to be the tonal center. Your teacher is wrong in that you can't play anything other than some sort of C if C is the tonal center.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#5
Not quite. This is the most common way, but you can pedal a B bass note and just whip out notes from the mode on top of it and it will still be modal.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#6
Edit: Sophist explained.
To be brave is to take action in spite of fear. It is impossible to be brave without first being afraid. To take action without fear is not brave, it is foolish.
#10
B Locrian will always be called B Locrian no matter what you play it over. It will fit perfectly over a Bm7b5 for sure but the name dosent change if the chord does. You're both right really, you'd be playing in C Major AND B Locrian cos theyre the same thing just with different starting points.
#11
Quote by noddy-whack
that was just my 1st point


Yeah, but Bm7b5 and Bdim7 are two completely discrete chords. Bm7b5 is not Bdim7.
#12
Isn't a Bm7b5 a half diminished seventh chord?
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#13
Quote by The_Sophist
Isn't a Bm7b5 a half diminished seventh chord?


Nope, full diminished triad right there

B D F
#14
Quote by comedypedro
B Locrian will always be called B Locrian no matter what you play it over. It will fit perfectly over a Bm7b5 for sure but the name dosent change if the chord does. You're both right really, you'd be playing in C Major AND B Locrian cos theyre the same thing just with different starting points.


No.

If i have backing track in Em and i start a melody on F#, that does not mean i am playing i F# locrian. By your logic i must start on the root note to be playing in the correct key, which is wrong.
#15
Quote by tubatom868686
Nope, full diminished triad right there

B D F


Bm7b5 IS a half diminished chord. B D F is just a diminished triad. Diminished7 would be B D F Ab ( 1 b3 b3 bb7).

Edit: sorry for the double post.
Last edited by griffRG7321 at Mar 24, 2009,
#16
That's not even a triad. To my knowledge dimished seventh chords have the formula

half dimished : 1 3b 5b 7b

fully dimished : 1 3b 5b 7bb

Can someone please reinforce/correct this.

edit: sorry, we posted at the same time.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
Last edited by The_Sophist at Mar 24, 2009,
#17
Quote by The_Sophist
That's not even a triad. To my knowledge dimished seventh chords have the formula

half dimished : 1 3b 5b 7b

fully dimished : 1 3b 5b 7bb

Can someone please reinforce/correct this.


Yes you are right. Refer to my above post
#18
Quote by tubatom868686
Nope, full diminished triad right there

B D F


What is a full diminished triad? The seventh is what determines if it is fully diminished or not. A half diminished 7 chord or m7b5 has a dimished triad and a minor seventh. A fully diminished 7 chord has a diminished triad and a diminished seventh. The two sound completely different.
#19
Misinformation on UG, no freakin way.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#21
Quote by blueriver
What is a full diminished triad? The seventh is what determines if it is fully diminished or not. A half diminished 7 chord or m7b5 has a dimished triad and a minor seventh. A fully diminished 7 chord has a diminished triad and a diminished seventh. The two sound completely different.

AFAIK, Fully diminished = entirely constructed from minor 3rds. There are no 4 tone fully diminished chords in the standard diatonic scale.
A metal band?
Gear:
A Guitar with an LFR > Korg Pitchblack > Behringer EQ > Hardwire CM-2 Overdrive Boss SD-1 > Hardwire CR-7 Chorus>
Orange Tiny Terror >
LzR Engineering 212 cab

My other amp can run Crysis
#22
Quote by The_Sophist
Your both wrong. You don't need a Bm7b5 chord, you just need B to be the tonal center. Your teacher is wrong in that you can't play anything other than some sort of C if C is the tonal center.


Wow, I thought the thread would kind of die after this post...
#23
Quote by comedypedro
B Locrian will always be called B Locrian no matter what you play it over. It will fit perfectly over a Bm7b5 for sure but the name dosent change if the chord does. You're both right really, you'd be playing in C Major AND B Locrian cos theyre the same thing just with different starting points.

Congratulations, you've just completely contradicted the very definiton of modes.

Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com