#1
i'm upgrading my amp (Mesa/Boogie F-30 Combo) to a Diezel. mainly because my amp lacks, in every aspect. it lacks sustain, it lacks t3h br00t4lZ, it lacks dynamics it lacks everything and whatnot.

i'm having trouble choosing between the Herbert and VH4.
one of the main reasons i'm favoring Diezel is because i can get them at a criminal price compared to people at the states.
best prices i can get for both amps NEW:
< 3600 USD (Herbert)
< 3900 USD (VH4, not sure if it's the stereo version)

i tried both at different shops but fail to come up with any conclusion.
when i was trying out VH4, the 4x12 cab was shoved behind some other amps and i was sitting right in front of it since the shop was rather small, so i don't think it had been a good position to judge the amp. then i tried Herbert in another shop but it was rather old and the tubes were probably failing so i wasn't really impressed with the tone.

now, i'd appreciate reviews, feedbacks and whatnot.

PS: i'm open to other recommendations, eg. VHT Pittbull UL, ENGL SE, Mesa/Boogie Mark V (i'm trying to avoid the big companies though). the Pittbull and SE cost a bomb here (not that i can't buy cheaper online from abroad), and i'd like to avoid Boogies since they only favor Boogies' tubes (i swapped tubes some time ago and experienced volume loss). also i'd prefer amps which i can try out before spending, so Framus, Peavey, Mako and whatnot are rather difficult brands.
"Often it does seem a pity that Noah and his party did not miss the boat." -Mark Twain
#2
Well if you have access to try them then it really is up to you. You could try out a bogner or something to compare it if you can find one of those.
#3
Diezel VHT. I got to try one at a guitar store, and he let me crank it in the amp room. The thing is an absolute tone-machine. Four MIDI-switchable channels too. There's a reason James Hetfield and Ritchie Sambora use them.

Look for ENGL's too, those are godly for metal.
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#4
I've never heard about Boogies favoring Boogie tubes only, especially since they're rebranded tubes in the first place.

How is the used market in Japan? I'd say a used Mesa MKIII would get you plenty of br00tz for a fraction of the price.

Aside from that, I'm a big fan of VHT for metal tones. I've no experience with Diezel, but there are several members here who can help you with that.
#5
Quote by imgooley
I've never heard about Boogies favoring Boogie tubes only, especially since they're rebranded tubes in the first place.

How is the used market in Japan? I'd say a used Mesa MKIII would get you plenty of br00tz for a fraction of the price.

Aside from that, I'm a big fan of VHT for metal tones. I've no experience with Diezel, but there are several members here who can help you with that.


is the mkv out yet?
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#6
for my suggestions i'll say VH4 for Diezel

Mark IIC+ for Mesa

SigX or Pitbull for VHT

SE120/100 or Invader for ENGL

Dragon/Cobra for Framus (if you can find one there)

MAK2 for Mako (if you can find one)

Splawn Nitro (if you can find one)

and an EVH 5150III
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#7
Quote by tona_107
is the mkv out yet?

I believe it comes out this or next month.

There are a few people who have pre-ordered them..
#8
The VH-4 and Herbert are very different.

They both have similar high gain, dry bottom end voicings, with the hiwatt esque clean channel.

With the Herbert you can run 3 sets of tubes, no matter what type they are (6L6, 6V6, EL-34, KT-77, KT-88) for more changes in tone. Has 3 channels, clean, rhythm and lead. The rhythm channel has a + mode with more punch and a mid cut section to give you a really big metal rhythm tone.
For a good solid Herbert tone check out the band Allyria

The VH4 is a little less modern on the punch and a little more smooth. It's more of a different feel than anything.
When metallica records, james is usually on the left speaker, kirk on the right, sweet amber probably has the most noticeable VH4 tone.


Check out Diezels' website for more soundclips.
Most Diezel guys love one amp and dislike the other one a good deal.
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#9
I've really disliked all the VH4s I've tried. For the price they cost, I just don't get it. I hear nothing special in their tone, they sound too bland to me and don't have much character at all when compared to the Herbert and Einstein.
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#10
Quote by MESAexplorer
With the Herbert you can run 3 sets of tubes, no matter what type they are (6L6, 6V6, EL-34, KT-77, KT-88) for more changes in tone.

what about vh4? can it use mixed tubes?
"Often it does seem a pity that Noah and his party did not miss the boat." -Mark Twain
#11
Quote by WTF!!is a TAB
for my suggestions i'll say VH4 for Diezel

Mark IIC+ for Mesa

SigX or Pitbull for VHT

SE120/100 or Invader for ENGL

Dragon/Cobra for Framus (if you can find one there)

MAK2 for Mako (if you can find one)

Splawn Nitro (if you can find one)

and an EVH 5150III
BTW, have you played any of those amps, or heard them live?
#12
Quote by imgooley
I believe it comes out this or next month.

There are a few people who have pre-ordered them..


ahh i've heard it is going to be godly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJniIjrBH8U
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Last edited by tona_107 at Mar 26, 2009,
#13
Alf: have you tried Diezel amps?

I'll keep my answer short as I don't have the time to type a blag:
I tried the Herbert and VH4 last weekend and own an Einstein. The Herbert is the best amp I have ever heard or played on in person, and it's the same price as the VH4 (cheaper in your case).

I'd go with the Herbert
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#14
i have never played a deizel... unfortunately
though i have played an engl se, i was very impressed, it has a cold edge and very extreme metal tonal range, extremely tight
i have also played a vht pitbull, was very impressed with this as well, it was a good solid amp, a dry distortion, and a responsive feel.
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#15
yngwi3 what great amps have you played and heard in person?
"Often it does seem a pity that Noah and his party did not miss the boat." -Mark Twain
#16
Quote by Yngwi3
Alf: have you tried Diezel amps?

I'll keep my answer short as I don't have the time to type a blag:
I tried the Herbert and VH4 last weekend and own an Einstein. The Herbert is the best amp I have ever heard or played on in person, and it's the same price as the VH4 (cheaper in your case).

I'd go with the Herbert



It's pretty funny that in the US the VH4 is more expensive than the Herbert. Everywhere else the Herbert is more. The Herbert is actually the flagship amplifier.
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#17
^ is that true? the vh4 costs more here in japan.
"Often it does seem a pity that Noah and his party did not miss the boat." -Mark Twain
#18
I've played the Herbert & VH4 side by side, & the Herbert just felt more touch-sensitive & responsive, more live sounding, where the VH4 sounded very smooth & processed, but this is just my opinion. Both sound better than the majority of other amps, but neither one would be just right for me. Depends on how responsive you want your amp. I like extraordinary levels of touch-sensitivity, which is the only reason I don't own a Diezel. For that, they're very good, but more responsive amps are available, but generally aren't as versatile. That being said, a Herbert is still probably the best amp available if you need versatility.
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#19
^ well how does the VHT Pittbull compare with Herbert?
"Often it does seem a pity that Noah and his party did not miss the boat." -Mark Twain
#20
Quote by necrophilic
yngwi3 what great amps have you played and heard in person?

A fair few - I hope to get a spam thread up this weekend
Quote by MESAexplorer
It's pretty funny that in the US the VH4 is more expensive than the Herbert. Everywhere else the Herbert is more. The Herbert is actually the flagship amplifier.

Haha yeah. I tried the VH4 and Herbert next to one another and... while BOTH were... EXCELLENT... The Herbert just sounded a few notches better.

Also I agree with Randy (riffhog), except I like their level of sensitivity.
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Quote by uk.mace
For the best tingle, use Original Source mint. That shit feels amazing on your balls.


Godfather of The Diezel Mafia
#21
Yng and goolz:
yep i tried some of those amps when i was in boston and i tried the KranK and the Mako when i was in a used store in Orlando.
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#22
Quote by Yngwi3
A fair few - I hope to get a spam thread up this weekend

Haha yeah. I tried the VH4 and Herbert next to one another and... while BOTH were... EXCELLENT... The Herbert just sounded a few notches better.

Also I agree with Randy (riffhog), except I like their level of sensitivity.


Yeah, the sensitivity thing is very subjective, & I'm just really fussy about it. I'd definitely put both of those Diezels in my top 10 amps I've ever played (& I've played dozens of boutique & high-end amps), & the Herbert would be in my top 5 without question.
To the TS- IMO, a VHT Pittbull is a bit more harsh & aggressive sounding, more like a Soldano SLO 100. The touch sensitivity of the Pittbull is greater than either Diezel IMO, but along with that is the fact that you must articulate each & every note & nuance of your playing exactly correctly, or YOU WILL SOUND LIKE ASS, just like a Soldano. This can be a very frustrating "feature" if you're not at least an intermediate-advanced player. Diezels are somewhat more forgiving than an SLO or Pittbull, but still require some real skills to take advantage of their huge tone. Some n00b can play a few power chords on a Herbert & sound OK, but the solos will reveal all.
I would buy a Herbert in a second if I didn't already have a nice amp. My choices actually came down to the Herbert or a Soldano SLO 100, & I chose a purple SLO on ebay that I got for $2500 shipped (& used Herberts don't come along very often). Otherwise, I'd have gotten a Herbert. Awesome amp.
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#23
Quote by riffhog
Diezels are somewhat more forgiving than an SLO or Pittbull

o_O Holy crap

Remind me to never, EVER buy one of those amps My Stein is unforgiving enough.
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#24
Quote by Yngwi3
o_O Holy crap

Remind me to never, EVER buy one of those amps My Stein is unforgiving enough.


Yeah, I almost cried teh first few times I played the SLO loud w/ no FX. I sounded so bad, & I actually had thought I was an OK player . You really can't go wrong buying a Diezel. Think of it as a lifetime investment in tonal bliss .
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#25
I've never though VHT's were unforgiving. They've always had enough saturation and low end to carry my notes through and sustain into the next one.

I actually prefer amps that other people call unforgiving because they sound better for leads. More note articulation.
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#26
Yes I do prefer the tone of an unforgiving amp for sure, but I wish I was a better player now
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#27
went to tokyo and tried both Herbert and Pittbull today.
liked the Pittbull better. i'm not yet really sure why.
wanted to ask you guys, how can you stand Herbert's channel 3? it's awful. too much fuzzy quality in the gain structure. poor definition. channels 1 & 2 were ok but i don't think the knobs are as responsive as the Pittbull.

maybe i'm wrong but i'll go try again someday.
"Often it does seem a pity that Noah and his party did not miss the boat." -Mark Twain
#28
Quote by necrophilic
went to tokyo and tried both Herbert and Pittbull today.
liked the Pittbull better. i'm not yet really sure why.
wanted to ask you guys, how can you stand Herbert's channel 3? it's awful. too much fuzzy quality in the gain structure. poor definition. channels 1 & 2 were ok but i don't think the knobs are as responsive as the Pittbull.

maybe i'm wrong but i'll go try again someday.

Another reason that pushed me toward an SLO.
Did you get to crank up teh Herbert lead channel? I certainly wouldn't call it poor definition, but I understand how you could feel that way playing it side by side with a Pittbull, which has articulation somewhat close to the level of an SLO. I felt that way about the Orange Rockerverb series when I played them right after playing a Bogner Uberschall & 5150 III. The Orange paled in comparison IMO, but whenever I go & just try an Orange somewhere by itself, it sounds killer. A bit loose, but really nice voicing in general. It gets very interesting & real when you try amps side by side.
Anyway---if you liked teh Pittbull better, you should DEFINITELY try a Soldano SLO 100 before committing a huge wad of money. If you enjoy the brilliant articulation, you must find one & try it. The main difference IMO, between the Pittbull & SLO, is the SLO is a bit crisper & more aggressive, probably due to the 5881 Sovtek output tubes, compared to the EL34s in the Pittbull. (I love EL34s, but I hadn't ever tried a VHT when I bought my SLO -----I may have chosen the Pittbull .
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#29
^ kt88's for Pittbull. i don't think they operate on el34's. and i believe, kt88's got more br00t4lz than 5881's? would love to try a SLO but they are really RARE here, once in a while i see a used one but it still costs a bomb (not that i can't buy online from abroad). just worried if SLO can do 'em br00t4lz.

edit: sorry i was actually mentioning Pittbull UL, not Pittbull CLX which operates on el34's. i read somewhere that CLX is more suited for rhythm/distortion, so i'm sticking with UL for lead/solo.
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Last edited by necrophilic at Mar 27, 2009,
#30
Quote by necrophilic
how can you stand Herbert's channel 3? it's awful. too much fuzzy quality in the gain structure.

lrn2EQ

I tried all the channels extensively last weekend and 'awful' is... the complete opposite to how I'd describe it.
How loud were you playing it?
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#31
Quote by necrophilic
went to tokyo and tried both Herbert and Pittbull today.
liked the Pittbull better. i'm not yet really sure why.
wanted to ask you guys, how can you stand Herbert's channel 3? it's awful. too much fuzzy quality in the gain structure. poor definition. channels 1 & 2 were ok but i don't think the knobs are as responsive as the Pittbull.

maybe i'm wrong but i'll go try again someday.

next time you try it, pay close attention to the midcut feature, and where the level and intensity is set. You can really change the voicing depending where the intensity is dialed with the mid cut on. The level control is just used to compensate how much of a mid cut you dial. The presence is very sensitive on this amp too, but has a wide range. Try everything at 12:00 next time and go from there. I like the midcut on, but dial the intensity rather low, and boost the mid on the channel. You can definitely get some nice clarity on ch 3, without fizz, it's just a matter of dialing it in. Very sensitive to guitar/pup and cabs too, sounds the best to me thru V30 or G12K100. It's not going to sound as dry and tight as a pitbull, but the amp has a feel and sag to it that makes playing it very enjoyable, while still retaining clarity.
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#32
Diezel VH4's only sound good when turned up quite loud, as do a lot of Diezels (sure they sound better than some amps at low volumes, but when you factor in the price it's not THAT much better than Mesa or Marshalls, etc at low volumes). Out of those two I've only played the VH4, and I liked it, but didn't get to turn it up past 2, so I couldn't get the best interpretation of the tones. I got to play an Einstein awhile ago, which is suppose to have the clean channel typical of Diezels, and the lead channel like a combo of Ch.'s 2 and 3 on the VH4 and Herbert, and I liked it a lot. I'd personally go with the VH4.
#33
Quote by Yngwi3
lrn2EQ

I tried all the channels extensively last weekend and 'awful' is... the complete opposite to how I'd describe it.
How loud were you playing it?

loud enough to feel uncomfortable.

Quote by Erock503
next time you try it, pay close attention to the midcut feature, and where the level and intensity is set. You can really change the voicing depending where the intensity is dialed with the mid cut on. The level control is just used to compensate how much of a mid cut you dial. The presence is very sensitive on this amp too, but has a wide range. Try everything at 12:00 next time and go from there. I like the midcut on, but dial the intensity rather low, and boost the mid on the channel. You can definitely get some nice clarity on ch 3, without fizz, it's just a matter of dialing it in. Very sensitive to guitar/pup and cabs too, sounds the best to me thru V30 or G12K100. It's not going to sound as dry and tight as a pitbull, but the amp has a feel and sag to it that makes playing it very enjoyable, while still retaining clarity.

i'll try better next time. but i think i've tried channel 3 without activating midcut, at least once. another thing with channel 3 is i find the gain too much even at minimal settings.
anyway i won't get it cheap anymore now it costs <4100 USD. the previous price was so low because it's the amp which is used by customers.

so i'm highly considering VHT Pittbulls.planning to buy online. not sure UL or CLX. the CLX is more expensive anybody knows why?
"Often it does seem a pity that Noah and his party did not miss the boat." -Mark Twain
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