#1
Emadd9 -> Cmaj7 -> Amaj7 -> Bsus2

I only possess the knowledge to know the key of a really simple chord progression, but Emadd9 leaves me baffled.
#2
Just take away the added 9th's, major 7th's and whatever, they don't change the key, as their just colours on top of the normal chord.
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#3
What? Seriously? It's that easy?

...

Well I feel stupid now. Thanks!
#4
The Majors and Minors actually will help you with the key, as the Root will always be major, the second minor, etc.
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#5
The root movement is - i VI IV V which tells me it's going to resolve to Em so it's Em.

The extensions are just decoration of an Em C A B progression.

The major IV chord is borrrowed or uses borrowed notes to make it a major chord in the minor setting.

EDIT: too slow!
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Mar 26, 2009,
#7
E minor is not G major.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#8
Quote by The_Sophist
E minor is not G major.


He's talking relatives, I think.
I was an Internet Witness in the mike.h Murder Case.
Quote by Pauldapro
this man is right. everything he says is right. so, stop killing people and get therapy ffs
#9
Then he should say that, he's just going to confuse someone.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#10
Agreed.

I was an Internet Witness in the mike.h Murder Case.
Quote by Pauldapro
this man is right. everything he says is right. so, stop killing people and get therapy ffs
#11
Just take away the added 9th's, major 7th's and whatever, they don't change the key, as their just colours on top of the normal chord.


The extensions are important. Cmaj7 functions very differently than, say, C7.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#13
Yes.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#14
Quote by Archeo Avis
The extensions are important. Cmaj7 functions very differently than, say, C7.


True. As you can see Cmaj7 has a major 7 while C7 has the dominant 7, a semi-tone difference.
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#15
Quote by OldRocker
True. As you can see Cmaj7 has a major 7 while C7 has the dominant 7, a semi-tone difference.

thank u for the information
#16
Quote by The_Sophist
Yes.

So what key does it change to when we use C7 instead of CMaj7

Emadd9 C7 AMaj7 Bsus2
Si
#17
Quote by 20Tigers
So what key does it change to when we use C7 instead of CMaj7

Emadd9 C7 AMaj7 Bsus2


E major?
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#18
Chords are a collection of notes, which can be made up from a scale, so different chords will mean different notes, which will mean different scale. I know you know this, so what are we arguing about?

Edit : Directed at 20Tigers
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#19
Arguing

I was just asking if the difference between C7 and CMaj7 was enough in itself to result in the progression as being in a different key. You said "yes" I asked what the new key was.
Si
#20
No, I don't think changing that Cmaj7 to a C7 drastically changes the key because you can just regard that C7 as a non-functioning dominant. It'd get a little tricky if you changed the extensions of a functioning dominant or of a tonal chord though.


To T/S and anyone else trying to determin the key of a progression.

Without learning a fair bit of theory (simple counterpoint, chord movements, voice leading), the only way to tell, for certain, the key of a progression is to listen to it. Play each chord once for exactly the same amount of time. Keep playing the progression around and around. After a while, you should hear that one chord sounds more "finished" than the other chords, it will be distinguished.
The root of this chord (usually) is the tonal center of the progression, so if the chord is a Dbmaj chord the progression is in Db. The third of this chord will have the same quality as the tonality of the progression, so if it's a minor third the progression is in minor.

Sometimes a chord is misnamed, like C7sus4 chords are better named as Gm11/C chords. Normally this won't be a problem, but watch out for it anyway.

Sometimes a progression will change key, although this is unlikely in a progression with less than 5 or 6 chords. If it does change keys, you might hear multiple tonal centers.
        ,
        |\
[U]        | |                     [/U]
[U]        |/     .-.              [/U]
[U]       /|_     `-’       |      [/U]
[U]      //| \      |       |      [/U]
[U]     | \|_ |     |     .-|      [/U]
      *-|-*    (_)     `-’
        |
        L.
#21
Quote by demonofthenight
Play each chord once for exactly the same amount of time.

This works until you come across a progression in which the chords are not played for exactly the same amount of time and that disproportionate time spent on each chord alters the perception of which chord is the tonic.

But otherwise he's right - it is a matter of listening to a progression and learning to recognize the tonal centre.

As for the extended chords - you will get more information about what the tonal centre is from the root movement and base triads than from the notes that make up the chord extensions. And you can take that to the bank.
Si
#22
Let me just add that technically the difference between the Maj7 and the dominant 7 is their quaility (function) not their "extensions". In other words the B natural is the correct 7 for a Cmajor, but a Bb is the correct 7 for a C dominant. This is not an extension issue, as extensions are always defined by their root chord's function, not the other way around. Sorry to be technical but it seemed a salient point.
#23
Quote by t.k. gardner
Let me just add that technically the difference between the Maj7 and the dominant 7 is their quaility (function) not their "extensions". In other words the B natural is the correct 7 for a Cmajor, but a Bb is the correct 7 for a C dominant. This is not an extension issue, as extensions are always defined by their root chord's function, not the other way around. Sorry to be technical but it seemed a salient point.
The quality of a chord is usually defined by the third and the fifth, not the seventh. As in, a major chord is not just a 1 3 5 7, but any chord with a 1 3 5. A dominant chord is a type of major chord. I have seen it refered to as your way, but more often quality is defined by just the third and the fifth.

Yes a dominant chord will usually have a special function, but you will see occasionally a dominant chord not fullfilling that function, aka non-functioning dominant.
        ,
        |\
[U]        | |                     [/U]
[U]        |/     .-.              [/U]
[U]       /|_     `-’       |      [/U]
[U]      //| \      |       |      [/U]
[U]     | \|_ |     |     .-|      [/U]
      *-|-*    (_)     `-’
        |
        L.
#24
Quote by demonofthenight
The quality of a chord is usually defined by the third and the fifth, not the seventh. As in, a major chord is not just a 1 3 5 7, but any chord with a 1 3 5. A dominant chord is a type of major chord. I have seen it refered to as your way, but more often quality is defined by just the third and the fifth.

Yes a dominant chord will usually have a special function, but you will see occasionally a dominant chord not fullfilling that function, aka non-functioning dominant.


The fifth is completely tonally irrelevant unless it's altered in some way. The seventh is vastly more important in determining the quality of the chord.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#25
Quote by demonofthenight
The quality of a chord is usually defined by the third and the fifth, not the seventh. As in, a major chord is not just a 1 3 5 7, but any chord with a 1 3 5. A dominant chord is a type of major chord. I have seen it refered to as your way, but more often quality is defined by just the third and the fifth.

Yes a dominant chord will usually have a special function, but you will see occasionally a dominant chord not fullfilling that function, aka non-functioning dominant.

dont post about stuff
#27
Quote by ilikebebop
dont post about stuff


I have yet to see Demon be flat out wrong, although I have disagreed with him a few times. You on the other hand, have never contributed anything even remotly useful to anyone on here.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#28
Quote by The_Sophist
I have yet to see Demon be flat out wrong, although I have disagreed with him a few times. You on the other hand, have never contributed anything even remotly useful to anyone on here.

"The quality of a chord is usually defined by the third and the fifth, not the seventh."
here ya go
#29
The third is important because it determines whether the chord is major or minor. The fifth is important because if it's not a perfect fifth the quality of the chord changes a hell of a lot. So no, I don't disgaree with him.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#30
Quote by The_Sophist
The third is important because it determines whether the chord is major or minor. The fifth is important because if it's not a perfect fifth the quality of the chord changes a hell of a lot. So no, I don't disgaree with him.

read archeo's post he is right
#31
Quote by Archeo Avis
The fifth is completely tonally irrelevant unless it's altered in some way. The seventh is vastly more important in determining the quality of the chord.

+1.

If you learn about voice leading in the common practice era, you'll note that it's possible and happens fairly often in a four-part chorale setting to have a chord consisting of a third and a tripled root note. The fifth is the only note that can be left out of the chord, for the exact reason Archeo described.
#32
I didn't say I agreed with him either. I know Archeo is right, Archeo is always right. Archeo is saying a perfect fifth is harmonically irrelevant, which I agree with. Demon is saying that if it's not a perfect fifth, it is important, which I also agree with.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.