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#1
Long story short, I'm having a debate with the majority of my class and my biology teacher about creationism v. evolution tomorrow. He has binders and binders of bs creationist ramblings that "disprove" evolution, and I know that they aren't true. I do need lots of material though, for reference. Anybody have any good sites/points to make?

Things he's brought up as "evidence":
-Dinosaur fossils mixed with human footprints
-Human hand print fossilized in same rock layer as a dinosaur
-Dating methods don't work
-Most scientists agree modern dating methods don't work (I would LOVE a document completely debunking that one)
-Anything/Everything else

Many thanks
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#7
Go watch Christopher Hitchens' debate with Rev. Al Sharpton on Youtube...

Doesn't necessarily have the hard facts you're looking at for evolu. vs. CRAZY but it gives a whole hell of a lot of cannon fodder that'll make whoever takes Gods' side look like an extremely wishfully - ignorant bastard...

Cheers!

-TFA
#8
All I can say is DO NOT USE WIKIPEDIA. I think it's a extremely good source myself but people tend to shoot it down. A example conversation would be like this,

Teacher: "HERP A DERP I LOVE LIES"
You: "Well Wikipedia says....
Teacher: "HERP A DERP THAT'S FROM WIKIPEDIA SO IT DOESN'T COUNT! ANYONE CAN EDIT IT LOLOLOLOL"

Also, why is a person like that teaching biology?
#9
Quote by dreamtheater91
Long story short, I'm having a debate with the majority of my class and my biology teacher about creationism v. evolution tomorrow. He has binders and binders of bs creationist ramblings that "disprove" evolution, and I know that they aren't true. I do need lots of material though, for reference. Anybody have any good sites/points to make?

Things he's brought up as "evidence":
-Dinosaur fossils mixed with human footprints
-Human hand print fossilized in same rock layer as a dinosaur
-Dating methods don't work
-Most scientists agree modern dating methods don't work (I would LOVE a document completely debunking that one)
-Anything/Everything else

Many thanks


How do you know that you know what you know?
#11
Quote by TyrsFromAbove37
Go watch Christopher Hitchens' debate with Rev. Al Sharpton on Youtube...

Doesn't necessarily have the hard facts you're looking at for evolu. vs. CRAZY but it gives a whole hell of a lot of cannon fodder that'll make whoever takes Gods' side look like an extremely wishfully - ignorant bastard...

Cheers!

-TFA

Christopher Hitchens is a complete asshole. I hate atheists that think that they're somehow better than others because of their beliefs (or lack thereof). That puts them on the same level as religious bigots.
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#12
Start reading The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. There pretty much a response to most creationist arguments in there. Might want to get cracking on it if your having the debate tomorrow mind haha
#13
carbon dating actually has been called into question quite frequently. Also, with more involved subjects such as irreducible complexity(as seen in blood clotting, the flagella, among other things), and the incredibly spotty fossil record, your teacher might just be right.
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#14
Um, read the Creationism vs. Evolutionism thread.

Also, google talkorigins or something like that. A massive FAQ, but I'm not sure if it's still up.

Also, I agree with the guy that said Christopher Hitchens vs. Al Sharpton.

Please, kick your bio teacher's ass.

EDIT: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html

Have fun with that.
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Last edited by Aaron0612 at Mar 26, 2009,
#15
nova did a special about "intelligent design a.k.a. creationism" and a court case disproving creationism proving that it's not science and a ton of other good stuff on it. look thru the 12 chapters and find what you can use
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#17
Quote by dudius
How do you know that you know what you know?


Many videos. Many lectures I've watched. Many articles I've read. Common knowledge :P Just need to gather it all together.

And he is a very smart biologist. That's the one thing he has ass backwards though. I live in the middle of the bible belt, in the same city a popular NASCAR event takes place. Self explanatory
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dreamtheater91 has destroyed my soul with that story

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#18
Yeah, read God Delusion. Or brang a bible and throw it at him. then say:

"WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW!"
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#20
Richard Dawkins - The God Delusion.

That book briefly covers it.

There no doubt that humans are an evolved species, Darwin's theory of evolution is pretty water tight. Especially when compared to the alternative.

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If your talking about the most common denoted form of 'God' then yes that's exactly what he did...
#21
Am I the only one here that thinks if you can't form you own debate and make your own point, you shouldn't be debating?
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#22
Well, you need to figure out what kind of creationist he is in order to debunk his beleives.
#23
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#25
I would highly suggest you research Charles Darwin's writings, and also Richard Dawkins. You can probably find a lot of interviews/speeches with Richard Dawkins on youtube. His book "The God Delusion" has actually turned a lot of people away from religion.

These two gentlemen will lead you to epic win on any and every level.
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#26
Quote by Macabre_Turtle

A creationist bio teacher? Something's not right here.


there is such thing as a belief in "Intelligent Design" if you didn't know.

not all scientists or those who follow science are atheist.

i'll grant you a good majority of them probably are, but not all.
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#27
Quote by strat0blaster
Am I the only one here that thinks if you can't form you own debate and make your own point, you shouldn't be debating?


I can form my own debate. But I need some professional documents as well as proof. Any point I make orally can be refuted by him simply saying "show me"
Quote by Captain_Kickass
dreamtheater91 has destroyed my soul with that story

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#28
Quote by dreamtheater91
He has binders and binders of bs creationist ramblings that "disprove" evolution, and I think that they aren't true.


That's more like it. By the way you might want to steer clear of blatantly insulting his beliefs, lest you look like a crappy debater.
#29
Quote by dreamtheater91

-Dinosaur fossils mixed with human footprints

Fakes.

Quote by dreamtheater91

-Human hand print fossilized in same rock layer as a dinosaur

Fakes/the layer was exposed again in a more recent time.

Quote by dreamtheater91

-Dating methods don't work

Bullshit.

Quote by dreamtheater91

-Most scientists agree modern dating methods don't work (I would LOVE a document completely debunking that one)


Bullshit.

Quote by dreamtheater91

-Anything/Everything else

Tell them that its unscientific/irrational to believe in something unfalsifiable (teapot argument).

Quote by dreamtheater91

Many thanks


No problem, although those points suck balls and my answers weren't as fleshy as I'd of liked them to be.
#30
Quote by humperdunk
Christopher Hitchens is a complete asshole. I hate atheists that think that they're somehow better than others because of their beliefs (or lack thereof). That puts them on the same level as religious bigots.


I read Christopher Hitchen's book "God is Not Great" and it had a lot of pretty awesome points in there. I remember he had one specific part where he basically wrote out how to win any evolution vs creationism argument with a creationist. I can't remember it though

I definitely know where you're coming from though. He's a very intelligent man, but certainly has a big head.
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Listen to RageAgnstUrJaw.


"I've wronged you, and steal everything from the truth,
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The pain goes on."
#31
Quote by dreamtheater91
I can form my own debate. But I need some professional documents as well as proof. Any point I make orally can be refuted by him simply saying "show me"

Am I the only one here that thinks if you're too lazy to do your own research to formulate your counterpoint, you shouldn't be debating?

Fix'd.
Do you feel warm within your cage?

And have you figured out yet -


Life goes by?
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#32
Quote by RaveRock
All I can say is DO NOT USE WIKIPEDIA. I think it's a extremely good source myself but people tend to shoot it down. A example conversation would be like this,

Teacher: "HERP A DERP I LOVE LIES"
You: "Well Wikipedia says....
Teacher: "HERP A DERP THAT'S FROM WIKIPEDIA SO IT DOESN'T COUNT! ANYONE CAN EDIT IT LOLOLOLOL"

Also, why is a person like that teaching biology?


Agreed. If anybody in any of my courses uses wikipedia as a reference they get an automatic fail.
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Thanks for the advice. I'm going to put it, along with your other advice, into a book, the pages of which I will then use to wipe my ass.
#34
Quote by dreamtheater91
Many videos. Many lectures I've watched. Many articles I've read. Common knowledge :P Just need to gather it all together.

And he is a very smart biologist. That's the one thing he has ass backwards though. I live in the middle of the bible belt, in the same city a popular NASCAR event takes place. Self explanatory


Common knowledge isn't really knowledge. It was once common that the world was flat, wasn't it?

Wasn't it once common knowledge that everything revolved around the earth?

And don't link NASCAR and the Bible together. For one, I like both, and secondly, it isn't just rednecks who like NASCAR. Have you ever driven near 280 mph?
#35
I am a scientist, and i can tell you isotopic dating is acurate. If your after literature, go to a local university library, and they will have the info. But seeing as your at school its going to be tough for you to be able to understand the advanced theory in a short time. So I would suggest to ask your teacher if he has a Bachelor of Science degree in Biology or Geology? Or does he have a lame ass teaching degree, where they dumb the theroy WAY down from an actual science major. If he has done a science major, then he will be aware of the evidence and is just in a denial and trying to influence school kids. Im assuming you go to a religious school, as "normal" scientists will never talk **** like this.
#36
Quote by dreamtheater91

-Dinosaur fossils mixed with human footprints


There isn't any of these anywhere.


Quote by dreamtheater91

-Human hand print fossilized in same rock layer as a dinosaur


They don't exist.

Quote by dreamtheater91

-Dating methods don't work


How did this turn from a biology debate to a physics debate? They do work. If they didn't then all of nuclear physics is wrong. Considering that we've done a lot of stuff with nuclear physics it's unlikely that we are that wrong. If they don't work then a large chunk of mathematics (exponents) is also wrong. Highly unlikely.

Quote by dreamtheater91

-Most scientists agree modern dating methods don't work (I would LOVE a document completely debunking that one)


No they don't. He has to first present you with his 'evidence' then you can debunk it. If he presents a document with a list of names saying that modern dating methods don't work, firstly check their credentials. What do they have doctorates in? Is it a relevant field? What evidence do they have for their claims? Also, Google Project Steve for lols.

Besides, even if he proved evolution wrong he'd still have to provide evidence for creationism. It's not a one-or-the-other type situation.


Besides, just smack him with the nylon bug. Or the paleontological, morpholoical and genetic support for a nested hierarchy.
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#37
this is a Creationist's stance on carbon dating i found

http://contenderministries.org/evolution/carbon14.php

to counter an argument, you have to understand their argument. it would be wise too look up Creationist's views on these sorts of things with explanations of why they feel this way, then go about constructing your rebuttal. if you do this, you will be successful in your debate, if not, your teacher can always denounce what you say for lack of support or proof.
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I like this guy, he's UG's Greek, and he just told your ass in two paragraphs. And I once spent 5 minutes watching his avatar.


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Last edited by Waterboy799 at Mar 26, 2009,
#38
Quote by strat0blaster
Am I the only one here that thinks if you're too lazy to do your own research to formulate your counterpoint, you shouldn't be debating?

Fix'd.


Well, I didn't ask for the pit to do every bit of it. I asked for help. Any links you have. Didn't say "I don't know about this so do it now for me guys kthx."
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dreamtheater91 has destroyed my soul with that story

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#39
i would just attack religion. point out past religions and how they are considered myths now. show them how say greek mythology and christrianity are similar.
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#40
Quote by Kill_em_all8
I am a scientist, and i can tell you isotopic dating is acurate. If your after literature, go to a local university library, and they will have the info. But seeing as your at school its going to be tough for you to be able to understand the advanced theory in a short time. So I would suggest to ask your teacher if he has a Bachelor of Science degree in Biology or Geology? Or does he have a lame ass teaching degree, where they dumb the theroy WAY down from an actual science major. If he has done a science major, then he will be aware of the evidence and is just in a denial and trying to influence school kids. Im assuming you go to a religious school, as "normal" scientists will never talk **** like this.


Government funded public high school.
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