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#1
I read comments from people complaining about guitars from various manufacturers that “copy” original models (typically, LP and Strat) but adding some variations, probably to avoid lawsuits.

So for Gibson we have their chinese Epiphone copies, which in fact are not exact copies as headstock shape is totally different. But people still buy Epi just for the brand and proudly say that they own a “Les Paul” with modified pickups and stuff…

That same people criticize other budget brands as Vintage or similar which produce their own copies, but with slight modifications like the sharper cutaway horn, etc…

Let’s put it this way: Mr. Paul Stanley (KISS, for younger people here) has a signature PS model manufactured by Washburn. So we have the top PS for around $3900 and the rest of MIA PS’s for no less than $1200. BUT… this guitar is just a Les Paul copy with some awful changes in body shape!!! I can imagine someone very proud too for having this PS, disturbing LP copy. Proud because he paid $3900 instead of nearly half of that for a REAL Gibson LP.

Then what’s the difference? $400 or $3900 Les Paul copies are simply that, COPIES. Expensive copies would (should) provide better quality, of course. But the point is that you cannot bash one just because it is cheap, while the other is not the real thing, either.
#2
Dude, Epiphones are one of Gibsons brands, not really the same as copies. Don't they use proper Gibson pickups anyway?
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#3
This thread makes no sense.

Compress all that down to one sentence, so you make sense and everyone knows exactly what you mean.
#5
Basically I think, TS doesn't like people bashing Epiphones, because they're just a cheap copy of Gibsons, when they're just owned by Gibson anyway.
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#6
Quote by Y00p
This thread makes no sense.

Compress all that down to one sentence, so you make sense and everyone knows exactly what you mean.


Ok:

"Stupid people who don't attend to details".
#8
Quote by dynamo0
Ok:

"Stupid people who don't attend to details".

If that's what you think that whole book up there says, then either you seriously lack in comprehensive writing, or I lack in comprehensive reading, and I know it's not the latter.
#9
I think this thread would be better if TS could actually illustrate a point properly.


Do you mean you don't like people who think Epi's are good but rag on other LP copy brands because they aren't associated with Gibson?

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#10
Quote by Pr0gNut
I think this thread would be better if TS could actually illustrate a point properly.


Do you mean you don't like people who think Epi's are good but rag on other LP copy brands because they aren't associated with Gibson?


lol if its this then i actually agree with you, but id take the other side because you act like a complete douchebag
#11
Let's try again...

Definition of "Stupid people who don't attend to details", from this thread perspective:

People who think that an expensive or custom guitar copy is the best of the best. On the other side, people who buy things like Epi just because it is owned by Gibson, when in fact they are nothing else but cheap chinese copies.
While BOTH are copies and NOT the real thing, whatever they cost.

I'm affraid someone did not understand my comprehensive explanation but WTF.
Last edited by dynamo0 at Mar 27, 2009,
#12
Quote by dynamo0
Let's try again...

Definition of "Stupid people who don't attend to details", from this thread perspective:

People who think that an expensive or custom guitar copy is the best of the best. On the other side, people who buy things like Epi just because it is owned by Gibson, when in fact they are nothing else but cheap chinese copies.

I'm affraid someone did not understand my comprehensive explanation but WTF.

There we go! Finally.

Well, actually you have a good point! Apart from Epi's being cheap chinese copies... the upper level Epi's often beat lower-/midlevel Gibby's.
#13
Quote by dynamo0
Let's try again...

Definition of "Stupid people who don't attend to details", from this thread perspective:

People who think that an expensive or custom guitar copy is the best of the best. On the other side, people who buy things like Epi just because it is owned by Gibson, when in fact they are nothing else but cheap chinese copies.
While BOTH are copies and NOT the real thing, whatever they cost.

I'm affraid someone did not understand my comprehensive explanation but WTF.


So you have problems with both sides of the issue? I think?

Your "comprehensive explanation" was pretty damn awful,so please forgive us for not understanding your eloquent musings you damn wordsmith.

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#14
Quote by Y00p
There we go! Finally.

Well, actually you have a good point! Apart from Epi's being cheap chinese copies... the upper level Epi's often beat lower-/midlevel Gibby's.


Nice to see that it is clear now.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that Gibson is the best just for being Gibson. Indeed, in the past Epiphone did make good guitars (even korean made epi's). The Elitist series would compete with some Gibsons but in the end they discontinued them.

But now I really don't see the need to buy an Epi LP when you can have a much better Vintage, Tokai, etc. LP copy for even less money.

And on the other hand, paying so much money for another copy (even if it is a superb instrument) is not justified. Because it is only that, another copy.
#15
Thread = (stupidity+pointless) * useless/time wasted = braindead.

I am now braindead. Thanks alot.
#16
Quote by Pr0gNut
So you have problems with both sides of the issue? I think?

Your "comprehensive explanation" was pretty damn awful,so please forgive us for not understanding your eloquent musings you damn wordsmith.


I forgive you.

And for the "cheap vs. expensive guitar copy" thread, something to add?
#17
Quote by dynamo0
Let's try again...

Definition of "Stupid people who don't attend to details", from this thread perspective:

People who think that an expensive or custom guitar copy is the best of the best. On the other side, people who buy things like Epi just because it is owned by Gibson, when in fact they are nothing else but cheap chinese copies.
While BOTH are copies and NOT the real thing, whatever they cost.

I'm affraid someone did not understand my comprehensive explanation but WTF.


That's weird, I could've sworn that I bought my Epi Dot because it was the best playing guitar for the price... You mean all along I've just been giving in to a subconscious urge to look cool by having an Epiphone?

...A guitar's a guitar, man, brand makes no difference. When you find the one that fits you, you're not gonna care what name's on the headstock.
#19
Quote by Jadena
Thread = (stupidity+pointless) * useless/time wasted = braindead.

I am now braindead. Thanks alot.


So you waisted your time on purpose, not only reading but also comprehensively commenting. Stupidity is not rare, as we can see.
#20
Quote by dynamo0
I forgive you.

And for the "cheap vs. expensive guitar copy" thread, something to add?



Sarcasm detector need batteries?


As far as copies go I think some are often better than the original,especially when Gibson and Epi models are concerned.Brands like ESP,PRS,Tokia,Agile,and so on all make great LP style guitars,and I'd personally rather have a PRS SC or an ESP EC model than a Gibson LP.

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#21
if its a 'superb instrument' then it IS justified. cause its superb, whether its a copy or not if its good then why isnt it justified.
#22
Gibson Pickups suck, so do all stock pickups
And Gibson doesnt make the best lp´s...
PRS>ESP(Eclipse,slightly better than),Gibson
(just my opinion ...)
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#23
Gibson and Epiphone are both balls nowadays. Buy an Agile.
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#24
Quote by dynamo0
Quote by Y00p
This thread makes no sense.

Compress all that down to one sentence, so you make sense and everyone knows exactly what you mean.
Ok:

"Stupid people who don't attend to details".


Complete Sentence Fail.
#25
There doesn't seem to be a cohesive thought in the OP.

Gibson is good, but there are copies that can be just as good or better at half price whether from a private luthier or from Edwards/ESP, MIJ les pauls like Greco/Burny/Tokai/Epiphone elitists.
#26
Quote by Cody_Grey102
Gibson and Epiphone are both balls nowadays. Buy an Agile.

you realise that it's likely that epiphone and agile are made in the same factories, using the same resources, the same quality control, etc? effectively, if epiphone are balls, the chances are, so are agile.
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#27
Quote by Pr0gNut
So you have problems with both sides of the issue? I think?

Your "comprehensive explanation" was pretty damn awful,so please forgive us for not understanding your eloquent musings you damn wordsmith.



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#29
I went to a local store yesterday because I want to semi retire my SG. I've given myself 2 options. The first is to buy a used Gibson SG standard or buy a decent copy or a Special and a cheaper copy I can mod to the hilt. I played a Tokai SG custom copy, although the guitar itself felt nice, the action was good but the pickups all sounded the same on which ever setting I had it on and the damn thing would't stay in tune for 5 minutes. The tuning problem could've been because the strings were new so that may not have been a fault but a guitar with 3 pickups should have more than 1 tone. Think I'll be going with the Gibson option because sorry to disagree with everyone but I've not come across a copy that beats my guitar.

Delboy
#30
Quote by Dawnwalker
Gibson Pickups suck, so do all stock pickups
And Gibson doesnt make the best lp´s...
PRS>ESP(Eclipse,slightly better than),Gibson
(just my opinion ...)

Where do you come to the conclusion that Gibson pickups suck?
#31
1) People don't buy epiphone "for the brand". They make some great guitars and aren't insanely expensive.

2) People that own an epiphone les paul DO own a les paul, because that's what the guitar is named.

3) Every single-cut guitar is NOT a "copy" of the les paul shape.

4) Copies (the non-fake ones) are not made to have people prance about going "lol i have a real les paul!", they are made so people can get a guitar that plays, looks, and sounds similar to the one high on the wall in that guitar shop with a $3000 price tag.
#32
Quote by Delboyuk_01
I went to a local store yesterday because I want to semi retire my SG. I've given myself 2 options. The first is to buy a used Gibson SG standard or buy a decent copy or a Special and a cheaper copy I can mod to the hilt. I played a Tokai SG custom copy, although the guitar itself felt nice, the action was good but the pickups all sounded the same on which ever setting I had it on and the damn thing would't stay in tune for 5 minutes. The tuning problem could've been because the strings were new so that may not have been a fault but a guitar with 3 pickups should have more than 1 tone. Think I'll be going with the Gibson option because sorry to disagree with everyone but I've not come across a copy that beats my guitar.

Delboy


So let's get this straight... you tried one SG copy and you are certain the Gibson is the best?
#33
Quote by Blompcube
you realise that it's likely that epiphone and agile are made in the same factories, using the same resources, the same quality control, etc? effectively, if epiphone are balls, the chances are, so are agile.

I'm not positive, but I believe epiphone moved their processing plant to china a few years ago.
Agiles are made in korea.

Unless korea moved korea to china, korea != china.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please, I'd like to know for certain or be informed differently.
#34
Quote by Cody_Grey102
Gibson and Epiphone are both balls nowadays. Buy an Agile.


...Wow.

Anyway, I'm going to just quote Pac_man here since he said what I was thinking, except for a few details which I'll just cross out.

Quote by Pac_man0123
1) People don't buy epiphone "for the brand". They make some great good guitars and aren't insanely expensive.

2) People that own an epiphone les paul DO own a les paul, because that's what the guitar is named.

3) Every single-cut guitar is NOT a "copy" of the les paul shape.

4) Copies (the non-fake ones) are not made to have people prance about going "lol i have a real les paul!", they are made so people can get a guitar that plays, looks, and sounds similar to the one high on the wall in that guitar shop with a $3000 price tag.


Thing crossed out because while I like the tone of a Gibson, I just don't quite like an Epiphone Les Paul for some reason, it always sounds boxed-in to my ears. The stuff in bold is that way because that is the main reason I'm looking at a higher-quality Les Paul copy.
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#35
Quote by _Sanitarium_
I'm not positive, but I believe epiphone moved their processing plant to china a few years ago.
Agiles are made in korea.

Unless korea moved korea to china, korea != china.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please, I'd like to know for certain or be informed differently.
Agile and Epiphone used to share the same factory, alongside Vintage and Rally too. Epiphone have since moved their Korean production to China, and Tokai have taken up residence alongside Vintage, Agile and Rally in Korea.

Though some Epiphones are still made in Japan, some are still made in Indonesia, some Rally and Vintage guitars are made in China, and some Tokai are made in Japan. I believe Agile is the only brand that makes all of it's guitars in Korea still, though I wouldn't be surprised if their lowest models have also been moved to China.
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#36
replying to the TS about "a guitar copy is just that, a copy"

that's like saying honda cars are just a ford copy with some different hardware (to avoid lawsuites). I mean how dare honda copy that whole mass produced "car" idea. damn them
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#37
Why can't we just be content to let people buy the guitar that they want?

So what if a guitar looks similar to a Les Paul but is made by a different company? If the Guitarist likes that model, then let him purchase it.

My first guitar was a Korean-made Hammer Slammer that felt like a Les Paul. That’s partly why I got it: I liked the feel of a Les Paul, but I would rather pay $80 for a used guitar to start learning to play.
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#39
^here let me help.

Quote by dynamo0
I read comments from people complaining about guitars from various manufacturers that “copy” original models (typically, LP and Strat) but adding some variations, probably to avoid lawsuits.


this sentence makes no sense.
it's a run on, and it jumps idea and tense, somewhere around "but adding".

but don't worry guys, i'm going to try to translate for us, bear with me here.


So for Gibson we have their chinese Epiphone copies, which in fact are not exact copies as headstock shape is totally different. But people still buy Epi just for the brand and proudly say that they own a “Les Paul” with modified pickups and stuff…


again the sentence is poorly constructed, and uninformed, but i can sense a dig at epiphones here.
what i think he means is,

"i don't like it when guys buy an epi and call it a les paul or a gibson. it's an epi so call it that."


That same people criticize other budget brands as Vintage or similar which produce their own copies, but with slight modifications like the sharper cutaway horn, etc…


"i dont like it when epi owners dis vintage owners." "my friend Ted does that, and i hate that." "he's a dick."



Let’s put it this way: Mr. Paul Stanley (KISS, for younger people here) has a signature PS model manufactured by Washburn. So we have the top PS for around $3900 and the rest of MIA PS’s for no less than $1200. BUT… this guitar is just a Les Paul copy with some awful changes in body shape!!! I can imagine someone very proud too for having this PS, disturbing LP copy. Proud because he paid $3900 instead of nearly half of that for a REAL Gibson LP.


wow this is too all over the place sorry kids, a little tough to translate.

i think it's something about, him knowing who kiss is. we're all idiots who don't know who kiss is.
and something about how washburn isnt a real company and doesnt deserve to endorse its products because it's not a gibson.


Then what’s the difference? $400 or $3900 Les Paul copies are simply that, COPIES. Expensive copies would (should) provide better quality, of course. But the point is that you cannot bash one just because it is cheap, while the other is not the real thing, either.


here he's comparing 4g guitars to starters,
and says because they weren't the first guitars ever made, then they must be "copies".


well that's it.
i guess all guitars are copies of the first guitar ever made.

so why the fuk bother even learning.

all this because his friend made fun of his guitar today after school.
Ted's such a dick.
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