#1
Lately I've become quite interested in non-diatonic chord progression but apart from VI-vi-I and VI-i, I don't know many other common non-diatonic progression so I just have to mess about till I find good ones.

By doing this I've written two progressions that I don't really know how to analyse. The first one started off as:
B A E
With the E played for two bars while the others are only played for one (in 4/4).

So far this seems fairly grounded in E major. I then added an F# for the last two beats so now it was:
B A E F#
I'm thinking that the F# is a subdominant to lead it to the B again (am I correct?).

Then I changed it again by replacing the A with a D the second time so now it was:
B A E F#
B D E F#
Now I have no idea why the D major worked. Also, after playing this knew chord progression it seemed to now resolve to B. Is this just because I'm using a sub-dominant or is the actual key now B major?

The second progression I know even less about. It goes:
F Ab Bb Db

I play them all for half a bar of 4/4 and they seem to resolve to F so I assume it's in F major but I don't know there the other chords come from.

If you could shed any ligth on these two progressions it would be greatly appreciated.

BTW, I know about chords that are diatonic to keys, key signatures, intervals, cadences and some basic chord construction (maj, min, maj7, min7, 7, dim7, minmaj7, sus2 and sus 4 basically) and some other random bits of theory (mainly classical stuff, eg. arranging ect).

Thanks in advance.
#2
With B A E F#, it would depend on context, I guess... if the piece is in E, you'll hear the F# as a secondary dominant (a dominant of a diatonic chord other than the tonic... in this case, V). I would probably hear the progression resolve to B major, though, with the A chord borrowed from B minor.

B D E F# is also probably in B major; the D chord could also be seen as a chord "borrowed" from B minor.


With the F Ab Bb Db progression, you have essentially the same progression as the "B D E F#" in the key of F, except you've replaced the V (which would be C) with the bVI (Db). The bVI is yet ANOTHER chord from the parallel minor, and it has a fairly interesting resolution to F, with two notes resolving by half step and the F staying in both chords.


So, basically, you've been taking chords from minor keys and putting them into progressions from the parallel major.
(Slightly outdated) Electronic and classical compositions by m'self: Check 'em out
#3
Thanks a lot, I haven't really thought much about parallel minors.

Are there chords that are often borrowed from parrallel minors or majors or is it just a case of trial and error like I've been doing so far? Also, could you maybe give me a progression that contains a sub-dominant?

Thanks again.
#4
Quote by 12345abcd3
Thanks a lot, I haven't really thought much about parallel minors.

Are there chords that are often borrowed from parrallel minors or majors or is it just a case of trial and error like I've been doing so far?


Well, the chords you've used (bVII, bIII, bVI) are all pretty common in major keys, especially the bVII and bIII in blues-rock. The iv is also pretty common, perhaps it's a little more common in older pop tunes.

In minor keys, IV is used in a number of styles. V is extremely common, but that wouldn't be considered a borrowed chord, of course.


You can always experiment with the others, of course, but I think those are the most common.


Quote by 12345abcd3
Also, could you maybe give me a progression that contains a sub-dominant?


Well, the sub-dominant is the IV or iv chord, so... I-IV-V? I'm sorry, I think I'm misunderstanding the question; could you rephrase that?
(Slightly outdated) Electronic and classical compositions by m'self: Check 'em out
#5
Quote by psychodelia
Well, the sub-dominant is the IV or iv chord, so... I-IV-V? I'm sorry, I think I'm misunderstanding the question; could you rephrase that?

Sorry, I meant secondary dominant (I did in the OP too, lol).
#6
Ahh, okay. Well, let's look at a ii-V7-I in C major: Dm - G7 - C.

If we change the Dm to D major, we have D - G7 - C: D is the dominant of G major, so in this progression, D is the secondary dominant of G.

The system that I've been taught for labeling secondary dominants is V/x, where x is the chord that the dominant resolves to. In this case, the D is resolving to the V, so we'd call it the V/V.

If we have a I - IV - V - I in C major (C - F - G - C) we can make the first I dominant, giving us C7 - F - G - C. In this case, the C7 is the dominant of the IV chord, F, so we call it V/IV.

You can have a secondary dominant of any diatonic chord, except the viidim. (You also probably can't have one for the iidim in a minor key, but I've never thought about that one). If I wasn't clear about anything, just let me know.
(Slightly outdated) Electronic and classical compositions by m'self: Check 'em out
#7
IMaj7 bIIIMaj7 bVIMaj7 bIIMaj7 is cool
Last edited by ilikebebop at Mar 27, 2009,
#8
The second progression I know even less about. It goes:
F Ab Bb Db

this is symmetrical harmony...moving in minor thirds...many jazz progressions are derived from this type of harmony...its very pleasing to the ear...it works best with 7th chords..

Here are examples in the key of G..

GMA7....BbMA7
Ami7......Cmi7
Bmi7....Dmi7
CMA7...EbMA7
D7........F7
Emi7....Gmi7
F#dim7...Adim7 resolve back to GMA7....note also that there are two keys in these types of progressions....GMA & BbMA

You can start with any chord...you can alter the chords if you like ... just make sure the next chord that is a minor third higher is voiced the same way..experiment with different rythems... when you feel you know this type of harmony you can change the chord types and get a feel for how much you can vary the flavors ..you should feel how this works in very little time...

play well

wolf
Last edited by wolflen at Mar 27, 2009,
#9
ilikebebop just referenced the Lady Bird turnaround, from the Tadd Dameron tune of the same name.

Any progression in 4ths or seconds will sound good, usually. To use all notes from the Major scale go vii (half-dim)-iii-vi-ii-V-I-IV-I

Bm7b5-Em7-Am7-Dm7-G7-Cmaj7-Fmaj7-Cmaj7

The minor 7's can all be changed to Dominant 7's, or just some.

Also progressions in seconds work well (Bm7b5-Am7-G7-Fmaj7-Em7-Dm7-Cmaj7). Mix and match seconds and fourths in your root movement to find very interesting new patterns.
#10
Sorry I meant to include the denoument-

Cmaj7-Fmaj7-Bb7-Ebm7-Fm7b5-Bb7-EbMaj7-AbMaj7-Db7-Cmaj7

All movements in fourths and seconds, a somewhat interesting non-diatonic chord progression.
#11
Quote by t.k. gardner
ilikebebop just referenced the Lady Bird turnaround, from the Tadd Dameron tune of the same name.

Any progression in 4ths or seconds will sound good, usually. To use all notes from the Major scale go vii (half-dim)-iii-vi-ii-V-I-IV-I

Bm7b5-Em7-Am7-Dm7-G7-Cmaj7-Fmaj7-Cmaj7

The minor 7's can all be changed to Dominant 7's, or just some.

Also progressions in seconds work well (Bm7b5-Am7-G7-Fmaj7-Em7-Dm7-Cmaj7). Mix and match seconds and fourths in your root movement to find very interesting new patterns.

ya it owns play it everyday
#12
By the way, this thread reminds me... On John Entwistle's solo album "Smash Your Head Against the Wall" the title song was written usingall and only Major Cords built from the C Major scale (AMaj,Bmaj,CMaj,DMaj,EMaj,FMaj and GMaj). An interesting exercise, though I have to admit that even though I loved Entwistle's playing this was not a very good album (from the 70's). There may be other examples of this sort of thing out there... anyone know of any?