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#2
i used to think not. however, the more i get my theory education in order, the more it makes sense, the easier it is to play, and the more interesting it gets to write, and listen to.

i would say yes. many will probably disagree. i hardly think you need to be a theory wizz, but understanding the basics of modal theory and wierdass time signatures and syncopation would be minimal imho.
#3
Quote by liam177lewis
i used to think not. however, the more i get my theory education in order, the more it makes sense, the easier it is to play, and the more interesting it gets to write, and listen to.

i would say yes. many will probably disagree. i hardly think you need to be a theory wizz, but understanding the basics of modal theory and wierdass time signatures and syncopation would be minimal imho.


Could you recommend a site where I could read about theory?
#4
Yes, as for other genres, it can be helpful. Metal is more complex than other genres, so it's more useful to have some knowledge of theory.
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Last edited by Rocker_geek at Mar 28, 2009,
#5
it is for the solos but as far as the riffing goes, watever sounds good
but i like to have at least one or two riffs that i can solo over n still know wat im doin
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#6
Quote by Blckspawn
Could you recommend a site where I could read about theory?


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#7
So for the riffs just randomly play heavy riff that sound good and for the solos use minor scales and theory?
#8
Metal is a complex genre and not everything will sound good.

Solos are based of music theory and scales and this kinda stuff. Some riffs are also done so I think.

Music Theory is for example very good to know if playing Power, Symphonic or Progressive Metal (Just some genres I am pointing out)


http://www.musictheory.net/
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#9
Music theory is important for just about any style of music, and like Wasp said read the theory stickies here they've got some good stuff
#10
KNowing theory is great for metal but i think it is more prominent in writing jazz
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#11
Quote by Rocker_geek
Yes, as for other genres, it can be helpful. Metal is more complex than other genres so it's more useful to have some knowledge of theory.


How? Have you ever listened to anything other then metal?
#12
^^
Yes, I've listened to jazz. I also listen to Indian classical (carnatic) which is microtonal and one of the most complex genres of music ever. I've been trying to get into Western Classical too. But what I'm saying here is that metal is definitely more complex than Grunge, punk and other forms of rock music. All metal is not complex, but it's still one of the complex forms of rock. So STFU.
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Last edited by Rocker_geek at Mar 28, 2009,
#13
Quote by Rocker_geek
^^
Yes, I've listened to jazz. I also listen to Indian classical (carnatic) which is microtonal and one of the most complex genres of music ever. I've been trying to get into Western Classical too. But what I'm saying here is that metal is definitely more complex than Grunge, punk and other forms of rock music. All metal is not complex, but it's still one of the complex forms of rock. So STFU.


Neat, except you said it is more useful to use theory when writing metal in your other post. Which is wrong. So you can STFU. The minor scale doesnt mean complex.
#15
dont think.listen.theory can be helpful but at the end of the day music is wat u hear not wats written on a page.if it sounds good,play it.if not use your ear to make it better
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#16
Quote by Eggmond
dont think.listen.theory can be helpful but at the end of the day music is wat u hear not wats written on a page.if it sounds good,play it.if not use your ear to make it better


So use theory to get a starting point, then add on to that to get something that you can call your own?
#17
in my opinion theory is essential to writing any type of music particularly metal, jazz and orchestral.
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#18
Quote by blueriver
Neat, except you said it is more useful to use theory when writing metal in your other post. Which is wrong. So you can STFU. The minor scale doesnt mean complex.



Yes, as for other genres, it can be helpful.

1. I said theory is useful everywhere

2. Ever heard of Blues, Blues minor, Phrygian, Locrian, Octatonic diminished scales ?

3. Metal has more solos, riffs which need to sound good together. Unlike grunge or punk which have fewer parts and are easier to compose. I'm in a grunge band myself. Check my band's profile for the songs.
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#19
Quote by Blckspawn
So use theory to get a starting point, then add on to that to get something that you can call your own?



no.come up with a sound in your head then work it out on your guitar.use theory to analyse it afterwards to see exactly what u did.thats what i would advise anyway
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#20
Quote by Eggmond
no.come up with a sound in your head then work it out on your guitar.use theory to analyse it afterwards to see exactly what u did.thats what i would advise anyway


........i kinda get what you are saying. So basicly:

1: Come up with a sound on guitar
2: write it down
3: use theory to check it???
4: fix it up.
#21
Thats like saying: "Are shoes important for walking?"

Of course you can walk without shoes, but its a damn slight nicer to walk with them.
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#22
Theory is important for writing in all genres, metal included.

It may be possible to write songs without theory, but thats like trying to write a book with no understand of grammer, syntax, spelling, etc. The more you know the easier it becomes, as is the case with everything else in the world
#24
Quote by notoriousnumber
Thats like saying: "Are shoes important for walking?"

Of course you can walk without shoes, but its a damn slight nicer to walk with them.


so what your saying is that you don't need theory, but if you use it it will make you **** sound WAY better.
#25
Music theory helps you write music, so if you want to write music, learn theory.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#26
Quote by Blckspawn
........i kinda get what you are saying. So basicly:

1: Come up with a sound on guitar
2: write it down
3: use theory to check it???
4: fix it up.



not nessasarily.if it sounds good it doenst need to be fixed up.just so that u can understand what u did.for example u mite discover that u like the sound of a diminished fifth in your riffs and then start consciously incorperating it into your future riffs
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#27
Quote by Blckspawn
so what your saying is that you don't need theory, but if you use it it will make you **** sound WAY better.


You can make music without learning theory. Its hard to write something complete and resolute though, as you will end up with lots of, hopefully, good ideas, but have no clue as to what they mean or how to string them together.

So yes, if you are writing **** then you might as well learn some theory in order to play some better ****. It is not however, theory->musical genius. Composing is an art in itself and takes a very long time to get to grips with properly, even if you are writing metal, which you presume is a simpler type of music.
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Last edited by notoriousnumber at Mar 28, 2009,
#28
Quote by Blckspawn
so what your saying is that you don't need theory, but if you use it it will make you **** sound WAY better.

Don't get into the mindset of thinking about "using" and "not using" theory. Theory is just a set of guidelines to explain how different sounds interact. Everything can be explained by theory, and thus there is no music that uses theory and no music that doesn't use theory.
#29
theory shudnt be something used.its something that is applied to something already createi
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#30
Why shouldn't one use theory to write music. Music theory explains things that happen, doesn't determine what happens. If you use theory to understand what is happening, you'll know what else can happen and why, so by all means, use theory.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#31
Quote by The_Sophist
Why shouldn't one use theory to write music. Music theory explains things that happen, doesn't determine what happens. If you use theory to understand what is happening, you'll know what else can happen and why, so by all means, use theory.

Because there's no way to "use" theory. You can theoretically examine something or use your knowledge of theory to think about something in a certain way, but theory itself isn't "used".
#32
I disagree. I use theory everytime I write a song. I use chord formulas and scales to determine the chord progressions, I use harmony to make the melodies and solo, and I use meter to figure out when to play these things.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#34
Quote by The_Sophist
I disagree. I use theory everytime I write a song. I use chord formulas and scales to determine the chord progressions, I use harmony to make the melodies and solo, and I use meter to figure out when to play these things.

You're using your knowledge of theory to dictate those things. Music theory itself is only going to describe those interactions.
#35
Your making music theory sound like a physical object. Music theory doesn't exist anywhere other than our minds. I'm "using" the system of explaining these sounds, so that I can find the desired sounds and use them.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#36
Quote by The_Sophist
Your making music theory sound like a physical object. Music theory doesn't exist anywhere other than our minds. I'm "using" the system of explaining these sounds, so that I can find the desired sounds and use them.

I'm not making it sound like a physical object, I'm making it sound like exactly what it is -- a set of guidelines that people study that have been established to explain the sounds of music. I just happen to draw a distinction between people's knowledge of music theory and music theory itself.
#37
Quote by :-D
Because there's no way to "use" theory. You can theoretically examine something or use your knowledge of theory to think about something in a certain way, but theory itself isn't "used".


incorrect, basic theory as in genral theory isn't used for composing but when you get into jazz or orchestral theory its almost all based upon compositional techniques and devices which have been created precisely for music composition.
.
#38
Quote by mergapoot
incorrect, basic theory as in genral theory isn't used for composing but when you get into jazz or orchestral theory its almost all based upon compositional techniques and devices which have been created precisely for music composition.
.

I study jazz and orchestral theory, and I don't see your point at all. Of course compositional devices have been created for composition, that goes without saying. But when you study theory, you're still studying music theory. Regardless of what the theory is based on, you're still not using it. You may use certain techniques, but the music theory is still just a field of study from which you can derive knowledge, nothing more.
#39
Quote by :-D
I study jazz and orchestral theory, and I don't see your point at all. Of course compositional devices have been created for composition, that goes without saying. But when you study theory, you're still studying music theory. Regardless of what the theory is based on, you're still not using it. You may use certain techniques, but the music theory is still just a field of study from which you can derive knowledge, nothing more.


You just said that u use theory to derive knowledge, knowledge which we use to create techniques which we do use in compositions. to me that sounds that you proved me right.
#40
Quote by mergapoot
You just said that u use theory to derive knowledge, knowledge which we use to create techniques which we do use in compositions. to me that sounds that you proved me right.

No, it sounds like I'm backing my own point. I've said through and through that we use knowledge of theory when we're composing. That's exactly what I just said up there, and it is still not possible as far as I'm concerned to use music theory itself.

If music theory doesn't exist by itself, then what exactly have we been studying?
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