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#2
its alot easier to practice while sitting because the guitar is higher and your arm is in an easier position to play, while standing you have to adjust because the guitar is alot lower (unless you play Beatles style with the guitar high up, Tom Morello of Rage Against The Machine also plays with the guitar higher up)

for which is better, i dont think its possible to say
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#3
my big kick lately is practice how you perform, if you are performing with the strap low don't you think you should practice that way?
#4
Quote by SteamMaster
its alot easier to practice while sitting because the guitar is higher and your arm is in an easier position to play, while standing you have to adjust because the guitar is alot lower (unless you play Beatles style with the guitar high up, Tom Morello of Rage Against The Machine also plays with the guitar higher up)

for which is better, i dont think its possible to say

exactly what i was going to say
#5
Imo you should spend time on both. I'll spend the majority of my time playing sitting because I've got more control over my technique etc. I have to practice standing as well, because it's a different skill and if I want to play with others/perform I need to be able to do it.

If you're gong to be playing standing at all you need to practice in order to do that, but for me my technique is better when I practice sitting so I'll do the majority of my practice like that.
#6
Yes you should practise standing if youre going to perform standing. Why? Because youre practising the way youre going to play. But thats stage 2. Stage 1 is practising for the sole purpose of getting it absolutely right, nothing else. Sitting is like a rehearsal, and standing is like a dress rehearsal, with all the props. In a stage rehearsal, everything is a bit different. You dont need to read your lines because by that time youve learned them and you can focus much more on how theyre delivered, and posture, stage presence etc. When standing while playing, it is even ok (id say perhaps more than ok) to break a few rules, because its a different ballgame.

But the confidence that you get from knowing that youre capable of playing something well is very good for morale. And then all you have to do is adjust, which in a way is an art of its own.

What you do with your students is great and more teachers should do it. And despite what ive previously said i dont think theres anything wrong at all with getting people to juggle both tasks (playing well and performing). After all its the bridge between just practising and actually performing.
#7
Quote by 0v3rdr1v3N
my big kick lately is practice how you perform, if you are performing with the strap low don't you think you should practice that way?


To an extent. If you intend to play/perform that way then you'll need to put in some practice in order to be able to pull it off. That said playing with your guitar slung down to your knees is not the best way to play, technique wise, so imo if you want to improve your playing practice sitting/with your guitar strap at a decent height. In short, it's a good idea to practice how you intend to perform but if it's not aiding your technique limit how much you do it.
#8
i found that standing up is much harder to play, and therefore every time i learn something new sitting down, i do it standing up before i move on.
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#9
There shouldn't be a difference in your picking hand or fretting hand when you change from sitting to standing or vice versa.

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#10
Quote by Pauldapro
There shouldn't be a difference in your picking hand or fretting hand when you change from sitting to standing or vice versa.


not if you play with the strap high, but if it's low there is a huge difference. notice how your elbow and wrists are bent. try this... sit and get into playing position, now stand but keep the guitar anchored to your body. this is how high the strap would have to be in order to keep your technique the same sitting and standing.

it is harder to play the bass strings with your pinky with your strap low, and your reach is compromised a lot. i have learned to compensate by using other fingers, or shifting. now i can play anything standing that i can sitting. actually since i always practice standing now, it is awkward for me to sit and play, and i'll mess up more.

why bother learning somthing one way when you'll have to break the habbit and relearn it another way later? if your gonna perform standing, practice standing. if you don't, you just lazy. don't practice half-a$$!
#11
You should be able to find a happy medium between playing sitting, where you will be able to get the most out of working on your technique, and playing standing. The guitar is not, really, designed to be played standing and particularly not slung low like a rock star. Because the majority of modern players want to be able to do both they should ideally find a way to play standing the works for them but don't expect your technique to improve drastically if you're always playing standing with your strap slung low because you're physicially hindering your playing motions.
#12
Quote by se012101
One thing that's smart is finding a way to split the difference - practice a portion of your time sitting down, but do it in a way that more resembles playing standing up. Some people play with the guitar on their left leg rather than their right, which more resembles playing standing up, because of the positioning of the guitar. One thing I did was get myself a drummer's stool which was a bit higher and caused the guitar to sit a bit lower than the chair I used to sit in. It did wonders for me - just by adjusting the guitar's height, I started playing more on my fingertips, and my picking noticeably improved.


this is a quote from the origional thread. now this dude is a nasty guitar player, and he's got songs on his page to prove it, therefore i respect what he has to say.

after i read this i got a great idea. ever see one of those kneeling chairs? i wonder if you could practice in one of those with the strap low. that way you could rest your legs and keep your finger technique the same.
Last edited by 0v3rdr1v3N at Mar 30, 2009,
#13
Anyone have any tips/advice for moving to a standing position?

I always practice sitting down, and find I can't actually play standing up.

I find I can't curl my fingers around the fretboard properly and the hand is so cramped up that moving up and down the fretboard is a nightmare. That and my picking motion now seems to go across the strings diagonally instead of straight down.

Any ideas?

When sitting, I have the guitar (either acoustic or electric) perched on my right knee, staying vertical; and the angle between my left forearm and the fretboard is always a nice 90 degrees. My right arm rests on the top of the guitar and stretches down to the strings.
#14
Do what i do (or should do) when standing, which is to have the strap as high as it needs to be so that its just like sitting down. Then draw a line on the strap so that you always have that height to go to if you need to. Then gradually lower it until its as low as it can be while not challenging you too much. You might aswell make it slightly tricky so that you have something to get used to, but not too uncomfortable. Then make another mark and play that way. If at some point you still keep having trouble move it up, and if you get better at playing at that height, bring it down a bit, and see how low you can go.

That way youll naturally and gradually adapt your playing, and youll avoid injuries because at no point will you be forcing your hand to do things which it has not become gradually accustomed to, and youll avoid any nasty surprises which can occur when you believe everything going well without having any idea just how much strain youre putting your wrist under.

At the very least your wrist will always be safe, and at best youll be able to play low (maybe not caveman low, but low enough), but safely.
#15
I think it's better to practice standing most of the time, since that's most likely how you'll be playing if you're in a band/playing for someone. But do both.
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#16
Quote by Alchemise
Anyone have any tips/advice for moving to a standing position?


BURN YOUR CHAIR!
you really have to force yourself to break this habbit, and ALWAYS practice standing. it is gonna suck for the first few weeks, your gonna have a hard time reaching the notes with your left hand, and your picking is gonna be off. your left wrist might also get cramped, but there are stretches you can do to prevent tendonitis.

dude, i have been there and i know how hard it is. just practice in front of a mirror to determine what you want to look like, and in time your fingers will automatically adapt to this new position. it took me about a year to get fully comfortable doing everything standing that i could sitting, but it was worth it. i'm so much more confident on stage.

i have students that i start in the standing position from day one, and i don't feel this hinders them at all. since i never let them sit, they get used to playing standing and sitting actually becomes awkward. it's not really any harder, just not what your used to. you can easily adapt to play standing if you just do it.
Last edited by 0v3rdr1v3N at Mar 30, 2009,
#17
most people are making a big deal out of your fretting hand and all that, which i dont think is a very true statement. the biggest differnce to overcome from going from sitting to standing is you cannot see your fretboard anymore. also the guitar has a little more swing in it since its not resting on your lap.

dont get me wrong its a little differnce from sitting and standing form wise, but i dont think thats the kicker that throws everyone off.
#18
Quote by SunDrop
the biggest differnce to overcome from going from sitting to standing is you cannot see your fretboard anymore.

that statement is true, looking at your fingers is another bad habbit, but i think that it another topic all together.

i had a very rough lesson that i had to learn onstage. i used to rely heavily on my eyes to guide my fingers where to go, but the way the lights were shining on stage i could not see the dots on the fretboard AT ALL. not only that but i could not hear myself because my monitor was blown and my amp wasn't loud enough to be heard on stage.

it was a nightmare. not only was i playing blind, but i had no clue if i was playing it right or not cause i couldn't hear. i felt like hellen keller. i saw the video the day after and it was pretty embarassing. there were a lot of people there too and they all were talking about how bad i sucked.

a few tips so you can avoid this. train your fingers to do what they're supposed to do, don't rely on your eyes and ears too much because you don't know what its going to be like on stage. try turning your amp way down at band practice and standing across the room so that its hard to hear yourself.
#19
Quote by Alchemise
Anyone have any tips/advice for moving to a standing position?

I always practice sitting down, and find I can't actually play standing up.

I find I can't curl my fingers around the fretboard properly and the hand is so cramped up that moving up and down the fretboard is a nightmare. That and my picking motion now seems to go across the strings diagonally instead of straight down.

Any ideas?

When sitting, I have the guitar (either acoustic or electric) perched on my right knee, staying vertical; and the angle between my left forearm and the fretboard is always a nice 90 degrees. My right arm rests on the top of the guitar and stretches down to the strings.


I used to sit down all the time when i started playing, but my friends im jamming with forced me to stand up. It really aint that hard, you just gotta get used to it. Try standing up with your guitar very high. Then everytime you practice, try moving it a little bit down. Keep doing that for a while, untill you think its enough.
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#20
0v3... :

Sitting and standing are different. One is not better than the other, theyre just different ways of playing. You dont develop bad habits from sitting. But, sitting has an advantage, in that it allows you to learn to play correctly. The advantage of standing is that you learn how to play standing. But to learn to play standing youre better off with the head start that you get from first learning by sitting. Then, as i keep saying, you adapt, adapt, adapt, the correct way so that you can do it standing and correctly.

No matter how good your students are at playing well standing, if they first learned by sitting, then stood up and adapted their playing, they would be even better. This shows that sitting first is the way to do it. All youre doing in your lessons is proving that it is possible to never sit and still play well standing. What im telling you is that if you sit first, then stand and adapt, their playing would be even better.

You keep confusing the two. This is about first learning to play correctly, and then after youve done that, you can stand all you like. "Learn the way youre going to perform" is fine, but you keep missing the point that no one is disputing that.

When you rehearse a play, isnt it best to learn your lines before you learn everything else?

When you learn to speak in an accent, isnt it best to first understand how to speak "properly" before learning that accent?

I could think of so many more examples of situations where you first need to give yourself every chance of success by freeing yourself of obstacles, before then going on to dealing with those obstacles.

The reason why the obstacles need to first be avoided isnt because theyre bad, its because "one thing at a time" is a good philosophy. Then, then, you introduce those obstacles, those things that are going to get in your way, and you deal with them.

You keep saying pretty much the same thing, but youre not debating the basic facts about the advantage of getting it right before you learn to perform. A couple of days ago you gave me the impression that after years of sitting, youre finally free of it and youre really glad to be playing the way you intend to perform. And now the idea of sitting seems to almost disgust you. But your emotional reaction to the idea of sitting is clouding your judgment, if you dont mind me saying so.
#21
leafarmusic, how long have you been playing? take lessons? play in any bands? play any shows? ever play in a recording studio? have any recordings?

if you can show me somthing i'll take you opinion into considerstion, i'm really looking for advice from more experienced guitarists though.

i am sharing SPECIFIC examples of my experience that are proven over time. your just throwing out theories. i used to think the way you do but that was years ago my experience has changed me.
#22
Quote by leafarmusic
When you learn to speak in an accent, isnt it best to first understand how to speak "properly" before learning that accent?


people that speak in an accent grew up that way, and do not know how to speak the language properly. why would you want to "learn" to speak in an accent. are you pretending to be somebody that your not? i know classical guitar is the "proper" way to play guitar, but to imply that you have to learn classical to play rock is ubsurd. the first thing you learn will always be the most natural, so your just gonna seem like a nerd who is pretending to be cool.
Last edited by 0v3rdr1v3N at Mar 30, 2009,
#23
Quote by leafarmusic
When you rehearse a play, isnt it best to learn your lines before you learn everything else?

not true, a good actor will stay in character as much as possible as soon as they find out what part they have. this means not only when they are learning their lines, but even when they are going about their normal day to day activities. you should never read your lines out of character cause you will subconciously remember them the way you said it before. it's called muscle memory. even when you read them silently to yourself, the voice inside your head should be in character.
Last edited by 0v3rdr1v3N at Mar 30, 2009,
#24
Fortunately youve been giving my opinion over the last few days plenty of consideration already, which is great. I dont think i really need to qualify myself, nor does anyone else here who is saying pretty much the same thing. The facts are pretty clear, its not surprising that most guitarists understand it, and will tell you roughly the same thing.

Theres a very good reason why most guitarists spend a lot of time practising sitting down, before they progress to the next level once they know exactly what theyre doing. That get to address the issue of playing correctly, before addressing the equally important issue of playing the way they intend to perform, by combining what theyve taken the time to learn, with standing up. Its always best to know what youre doing by paying attention to the task at hand.

And not surprisingly it seems to work for most guitarists, which explains why most teachers teach this way. I put it down to common sense. When i first started playing and i couldnt wait to play standing up, someone explained to me why its better to learn to play correctly first, instead of jumping ahead. Im glad that i took the time to consider the specific reasons that i was given, because over time i realised that most guitarists did it that way too. I just tried to think of one guitarist that didnt learn this way, but i cant. It seems to be the standard way.
#25
I just saw your other two posts. You didnt understand my examples. I better stick to explaining things directly, itll be easier.
#26
ok man i'll let you have the last word, were just going around in circles anyway

good luck and keep practicing
#27
I doubt that ill have the last word. After all its an important topic, and im sure others will have their bit to say about how to practise correctly, and how not to.
#28
Quote by leafarmusic
I doubt that ill have the last word. After all its an important topic, and im sure others will have their bit to say about how to practise correctly, and how not to.

i know, i'm just done argueing with you cause it will never end. i'll see what others have to say though.
#29
i sayy that you should learn new songs and techniques to a high standard
but practice performing standing up whole songs you've already learnt
to get used to playing them standing up although whatevers comfortable msut also be taken into consideration
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#30
It one of those questions which has a different answer for each person. For me I would practice sitting down until I had mastered whatever I wanted to play. Then just practice standing up as needed to perform it. This doesn't mean you can't do all your practice standing up just do what suits you. Sometimes you will feel like doing either.
#31
0v3... :

I recommend that. Theres a lot of experienced people to learn from, and a lot to rethink. But its nothing more than an interesting debate, as you said.
Last edited by leafarmusic at Mar 30, 2009,
#32
I almost always practice sitting... but heck, I have a pretty long upper body and I just keep my guitar on roughly the same height when I play standing (if you look at satch, there isn't that big a difference with him either I think).

also, its true that it takes some getting used to, but to each his own, I'm not gigging anytime soon anyway so I for one have no reason to practice it nowadays. Once it's necessary, I might...
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#33
The general opinion of almost everyone who has commented is that both sitting and standing should be done, but that when it comes to really knowing what youre doing, sitting is the way, and standing is for when you know what youre doing, and you want to practise your performance, in which case you adapt.

The person who started this thread wanted opinions, and theyre getting more than they bargained for seeing as practically everyone disagrees with their "always practise the way youre going to perform" philosophy. But apparently, anyone who disagrees isnt as experienced as them, and is just throwing out theories. Its funny how we're all throwing out the same theory, though, inexperienced amateurs that we all are. What a coincidence.

I wonder how long it will take before it sinks in.
#34
Depends on how and what you play.

Personally, when I'm good enough to perform I'm just going to go the John Butler route and pull a chair on stage so I can sit down with my acoustic, so I practice sitting down.
#35
Obivously I have been listening to too much Machine Head and the like, and immediately slung the guitar to reach my knees =/

Pulling it right up to my chest is uncomfortable, but I can just about play in this position. Its hard work though, and now my wrist aches lol.

0v3rdr1v3N, you mentioned exercises to prevent tendonitis - care to divulge? And any ideas to what point I should stop and rest/stretch my wrist?

I've been playing a few years half heartedly. Never had lessons, just stumbled along through with some help from friends every now and then. Reached a plateau of sorts though - I pick up the guitar play the half dozen songs/riffs I know, a couple of scales etc; but never more than that. Would be nice to play standing up properly.
#36
Quote by 0v3rdr1v3N
this thread is a continuation of

Posture : Left hand and arm

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1094574

do you think it is better to practice sitting or standing?


practice both ways, usually when you jam or play live, you will be standing, but at home usually sitting.. I try to keep the same stance in both , so I use a little guitar footstool to prop my foot up even when I am sitting. it is great and keeps my body straight and my left hand in proper positioning so I don't get no damn carpel tunnel!
#37
Quote by leafarmusic
The general opinion of almost everyone who has commented is that both sitting and standing should be done, but that when it comes to really knowing what youre doing, sitting is the way, and standing is for when you know what youre doing, and you want to practise your performance, in which case you adapt.

The person who started this thread wanted opinions, and theyre getting more than they bargained for seeing as practically everyone disagrees with their "always practise the way youre going to perform" philosophy. But apparently, anyone who disagrees isnt as experienced as them, and is just throwing out theories. Its funny how we're all throwing out the same theory, though, inexperienced amateurs that we all are. What a coincidence.

I wonder how long it will take before it sinks in.


/thread

TS I'm also worried a bit about your post earlier about bent wrists...you might want to look into that because that's really not good for your tendons etc. Check out Freepowers posture vid for more info
#38
Quote by leafarmusic
The general opinion of almost everyone who has commented is that both sitting and standing should be done, but that when it comes to really knowing what youre doing, sitting is the way, and standing is for when you know what youre doing, and you want to practise your performance, in which case you adapt.

The person who started this thread wanted opinions, and theyre getting more than they bargained for seeing as practically everyone disagrees with their "always practise the way youre going to perform" philosophy. But apparently, anyone who disagrees isnt as experienced as them, and is just throwing out theories. Its funny how we're all throwing out the same theory, though, inexperienced amateurs that we all are. What a coincidence.

I wonder how long it will take before it sinks in.


i appreciate everyones input on the conversation. everyone is entitled to their own opinion, there are many ways to play guitar and who is to say that their way is the right way. i am offering my opinion based on my experiences, and you can take my advice for what its worth.

i would like to point out that the 2 people who's opinion i share are Sonicxlover, and se012101 (who posted on the last thread). please take note that those are the only 2 people on this thread who actually have any recordings of them playing at all. so your right, the majority of people agree with you. but how can you give advice if you don't think your playing is even good enough to share with the people your trying to give advice to? i am mainly looking for the opinions of people who play some type of rock music, and have PERFORMING EXPERIENCE.

freepower has not been involved in this conversation, and i know he practices sitting. he is an awesome guitarist and a great teacher, and i have a ton of respect for him. his music is more modern jazz and classical however, and i doubt he performs standing up. if he does i bet he has the strap way up high. i bet he would agree with me that you should practice however you perform. i'm going to message him and ask his opinion.
Last edited by 0v3rdr1v3N at Apr 1, 2009,
#39
I have almost always practiced sitting except at rehearsals with my bands. Sometimes I run into issues because of that -- like I can't nail a certain riff at a show because the hand or arm position is just too different between sitting and standing...

But I've found that I either need to spend a little extra time on that one riff/song while practicing standing, or that simply playing enough shows (and my riff-heavy Southern Rock tribute band is playing a lot these days) it just works itself out....

Hope that helps a little.
#40
Quote by Alchemise


0v3rdr1v3N, you mentioned exercises to prevent tendonitis - care to divulge? And any ideas to what point I should stop and rest/stretch my wrist?


sure,

i was having extreeme pains from playing last spring, and a friend told me it was my "metacarpels, and metatarsals". she grabbed my hand and started massaging my palm really hard. it hurt really bad when she was doing it, but the next day the pain went away. i did take it easy for a few weeks till the pain totally went away though. if you have extreeme pain like this, you might need to take a break for it to fully go away.

since then i have been stretching out a lot not only before i play, but periodicly all day. all i do is tighten my fist really hard for about 2 seconds, then open it and relax for 2 seconds. repeat this about 10 times. i would say when practicing, stop and stretch about every 4 mins (the average length of a song). at a show, i do this a few times between songs, but don't let it get in the way of the show.

i have been doing these excercizes a few times a day for about a year and the pain hasn't come back!!!!
Last edited by 0v3rdr1v3N at Apr 1, 2009,
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