Poll: Poll 1: ANALOG VS DIGITAL Which do you use?
Poll Options
View poll results: Poll 1: ANALOG VS DIGITAL Which do you use?
Analog Delay
39 38%
Digital Delay
65 63%
Voters: 104.
Page 1 of 6
[[BurnTheDusk]]
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#1
1st Post ~ DEFINE DELAY / TYPES OF DELAY

- TAKEN FROM WIKIPEDIA -

Delay is an audio effect which records an input signal to an audio storage medium, and then plays it back after a period of time[1]. The delayed signal may either be played back multiple times, or played back into the recording again, to create the sound of a repeating, decaying echo.

The first delay effects were achieved using tape loops improvised on reel-to-reel magnetic recording systems. By shortening or lengthening the loop of tape and adjusting the read and write heads, the nature of the delayed echo could be controlled. This technique was most common among early composers of Musique concrète (Pierre Schaeffer), and composers such as Karlheinz Stockhausen, who had sometimes devised elaborate systems involving long tapes and multiple recorders and playback systems, collectively processing the input of a live performer or ensemble[2]. Audio engineers working in popular music quickly adapted similar techniques, to augment their use of plate reverb and other studio technologies designed to simulate natural echo.


ANALOG DELAY

Before the invention of audio delay technology, music employing a delayed echo had to be recorded in a naturally reverberant space, often an inconvenience for musicians and engineers. The popularity of an easy-to-implement real-time echo effect led to the production of systems offering an all-in-one effects unit that could be adjusted to produce echoes of any interval or amplitude. The presence of multiple "taps" (playback heads) made it possible to have delays at varying rhythmic intervals; this allowed musicians an additional means of expression over natural periodic echoes.

Many delay processors based on analog tape recording, such as Ray Butts' Echosonic (1952), Mike Battle's Echoplex (1959), or the Roland Space Echo (1973), used magnetic tape as their recording and playback medium. Electric motors guided a tape loop through a device with a variety of mechanisms allowing modification of the effect's parameters[3]. In the case of the popular Echoplex EP-2, the play head was fixed, while a combination record and erase head was mounted on a slide, thus the delay time of the echo was adjusted by changing the distance between the record and play heads. In the Space Echo, all of the heads are fixed, but the speed of the tape could be adjusted, changing the delay time. Thin magnetic tape was not entirely suited for continuous operation, however, so the tape loop had to be replaced from time to time to maintain the audio fidelity of the processed sounds.

The Binson Echorec, another popular unit, used a rotating magnetic drum as its storage medium. This provided an advantage over tape, as the durable drums were able to last for many years with little deterioration in the audio quality[4]. Other devices used spinning magnetic discs, not entirely unlike those used in modern hard disk drives.

Robert Fripp used two Revox reel to reel tape recorders to achieve very long delay times for solo guitar performance. He dubbed this technology "Frippertronics", and used it in a number of recordings. John Martyn is widely acclaimed as the pioneer of the echoplex. Perhaps the earliest indication of his use can be heard on the songs Would You Believe Me and The Ocean on the album Stormbringer released in February 1970. This was a first taste of things to come from Martyn’s interest in electronics and the boundless possibilities of electric music. Glistening Glyndebourne on the album Bless The Weather (1971) showcased his developing technique of playing acoustic guitar through the echoplex to stunning effect. He later went on to experiment with a fuzz box, a volume/wah wah pedal and the echoplex on highly acclaimed Inside Out (1973) and One World (1977). Martyn is cited as an inspiration by many musicians including U2's The Edge.

Often incorporating vacuum tube-based electronics, surviving analog delay units are sought by modern musicians who wish to employ some of the timbres achievable with this technology.

Solid state delay units using analog bucket brigade delay circuits became available in the 1970s and were briefly a mainstream alternative to tape echo. Though solid state analog delays are less flexible than digital delays and generally have shorter delay times, several classic models such as the discontinued Boss DM-2 are still sought after for their warmer, more natural echo quality.[citation needed] Additionally, several companies make new analog delays, including the MXR Carbon Copy and Ibanez AD9 (which is a reissue of their 1980s era pedal of the same name). Behringer makes a "clone" of the Boss DM-3, called the VD400, and BBE makes a derivative of the Boss DM-2, called the Two Timer.[citation needed]

Old delay systems like the Roland Space Echo and Echoplex are still highly regarded and used with some frequency by modern bands. The Space Echo has been recreated as a digital emulation by the Boss Corporation with the RE-20 Space Echo pedal.


DIGITAL DELAY

The availability of inexpensive digital signal processing electronics in the late 1970s and 1980s led to the development of the first digital delay effects. Initially, they were only available in expensive rack mounted units but eventually as costs came down and the electronics grew smaller, they became available in the form of foot pedals. The first digital delay offered in a pedal was the Boss DD-2 in 1984. Rack mounted delay units evolved into digital reverb units and on to digital multieffects units capable of more sophisticated effects than pure delay, such as reverb and Audio timescale-pitch modification effects.

Digital delay systems function by sampling the input signal through an analog-to-digital converter, after which the signal is passed through a series of digital signal processors that record it into a storage buffer, and then play back the stored audio based on parameters set by the user. The delayed ("wet") output may be mixed with the unmodified ("dry") signal after, or before, it is sent to a digital-to-analog converter for output.

Many modern digital delays present an extensive array of options, including a control over the time before playback of the delayed signal. Most also allow the user to select the overall level of the processed signal in relation to the unmodified one, or the level at which the delayed signal is fed back into the buffer, to be repeated again. Some systems today allow more exotic controls, such as the ability to add an audio filter, or to play back the buffer's contents in reverse.

As digital memory became cheaper in the 80s, units like Lexicon PCM84, Roland SDE3000, TC Electronic 2290 offered above 3 seconds delay time, enough to create background loops, rhythms and phrases. The 2290 was upgradable to 32 seconds, and Electro-Harmonix offered a 16-second delay and looping machine.

POST, THE THREAD IS UP AND ALIVE
Last edited by [[BurnTheDusk]] at May 13, 2009,
[[BurnTheDusk]]
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#2
2nd Post ~ BUDGET DELAYS & Recommended Delays

+ BUDGET DELAYS + $0 - $100 (USD)For the Echo thirsty musician with a paper-thin wallet.

Danelectro FAB Echo - $14.99
Danelectro BLT Slap Echo - $29.99
Rocktron Cyborg Delay - On Sale for $50, usually $220
GET IT NOW GREAT GREAT DEAL!
Danelectro PB&J Delay - $59.99
DeltaLab DD1 Digital Delay - $59.99
Ibanez Tone-Lok DE7 Delay/Echo - $69.99
GREAT PEDAL
Rocktron Short timer - $79.00
Danelectro Dan-Echo - $89.95
Electro-Harmonix XO #1 Echo Digital Delay - $99.00
DigiTech DigiDelay Digital Delay - $99.95
Danelectro Wasabi Rock-A-Bye - $99.95

RECOMMEND A DELAY!
Make a post saying you recommend a delay pedal and i will post that you made the request here!
For example...

Boss DD-7 Digital Delay ( 3 Recommendations )
T.C. Electronics Nova Delay ( 1 Recommendation )
Ibanez AD-9 Analog Delay ( 2 Recommendations )
Electro-Harmonix XO #1 Echo Digital Delay ( 1 Recommendation )
MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay ( 1 Recommendation )
Eventide Time Factor ( 1 Recommendation )
Line 6 DL-4 Delay Modeler ( 2 Recommendations )
Electro-Harmonix Deluxe Memory Man Analog Delay ( 1 Recommendation )
Last edited by [[BurnTheDusk]] at May 16, 2009,
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#3
3rd Post ~ DELAY SETTINGS AND TRICKS

EXPLAIN A DELAY TRICK!
Explain a trick with delay pedals and I will post it up here.
Lets start with a common trick.

Self Oscillation -
Most Delay Effects units are powerfull enough that if you turn the feedback high enough, the effect will produce its own sound, usually a high pitched studdering barage of a variable note. The pitch of said "oscillation" is easily controlable by varying the time between which the delayed notes reside from eachother.
This is usually controlled by a Knob labeled "Delay time".
Quote by lordofthefood1
Fun Technique: Doing two handed mutes with delay (as in both a left handed mute and a palm mute). Move your left hand from high to low while picking (I usually do a tremolo pick). Listen to the magic.

Quote by bartdevil_metal
One little trick I do at the beginning of one of my band's songs:

condensed down my pedal chain (the relevant parts to this trick) goes Delay->Volume-Delay. On the first delay make your feedback ridiculous, so it lasts for ages, reasonable time, maybe tempo tapped (but not oscillation, not if you value your hearing) the other delay needs to be set for a very short slapback delay time with a medium feedback (about half of the other one). You then play a lick, swell the volume into the other delay, and watch the craziness commence. Also, the level on the first delay should be set below unity, while the pedal after the volume pedal should be set to ever so slightly above unity.

This gets crazier with a killswitch.
Last edited by [[BurnTheDusk]] at May 16, 2009,
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#4
4th Post ~ BOUTIQUE AND HIGH END DELAYS

For the Thick Wallet Holding Delay User.
Quote by Dr.Pain-MD
Add these to the booteek section:
Empress Superdelay
Diamond Memory Lane 2
Mad Professor Deep Blue Delay
Malekko 300/600
Maxon AD-999/AD-999 Pro
Really dope delays.

Quote by Lauke_101
Why isn't the Moog Analog Delay added to the boutique section yet?

Quote by nightraven
and what about the eventide timefactor?

May I interject to say the Diamond Memory Lane 2 is an Analog Delay that has Tap tempo?
A breakthrough in analog technology as of yet.
Last edited by [[BurnTheDusk]] at May 16, 2009,
[[BurnTheDusk]]
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#6
Thread Is Now Active, Post May Commence.

EDIT: Also, every few weeks or so I will make a Poll about delays.
Vote if you want.
For the next 2 weeks, its Analog VS Digital
Last edited by [[BurnTheDusk]] at May 13, 2009,
EzzyBender
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#7
Delays for those without a budget: Fulltone Tube Tape Echo TTE for the low low price of $1080.

Which is analog.
[[BurnTheDusk]]
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#8
Quote by EzzyBender
Delays for those without a budget: Fulltone Tube Tape Echo TTE for the low low price of $1080.

Which is analog.

Id rather get 3 more Digitial delays and 2 Memory man styled analog delays for that price.
nightraven
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#9
i'm not a fan of the TTE, as well as the huge price, it apparently doesn't sound like the echoplex, and i can imagine that being true to be honest. it's all about the watkins copicats guys! they're not so delicate and still sound amazing!

my delay plan for pedals is as follows:
stick with my XO DMM until i can find a reticon DMM (preferably a blueface one where the preamp works when it's bypassed) and replace the XO with this. and this'll do me perfectly until i find myself a rockman stereo echo - which is the epitome of BBD delays. there was one on craigslist for DIRT cheap (think $30 or so) but the person had long sold it - these things climb in price a lot but god do they sound good

[quote="'[[BurnTheDusk"]]']Id rather get 3 more Digitial delays and 2 Memory man styled analog delays for that price.
5 delays? pushing it a little?


i'm also looking for one of the digitech PDS delays so i can 'echo hold'. you lot think it's worth just taking the PDS 1002 or one of those instead of the multiplay? is the modulation on the multiplay that great?
Last edited by nightraven at May 13, 2009,
kylegumby
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#10
You can never, ever have too many delays. =P

I would recommend the Boss RV-3 to any- and everyone. Technically a reverb pedal, primarily, but it's got some nice feedback options and offers a lot of flexibility. I like the sound pretty well, too. Lots of fun for experimentation.

I'd also give a big thumbs-up to the Line 6 DL-4. I've thoroughly enjoyed mine for the three or four months I've had it. A bit overpriced, maybe, and it's useless without a wall wart, but it's quickly become an essential piece of kit for me.
LP_CL
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#11
I've always been a huge fan of the T.C.Electronic delays. Especially the nova is superb.
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#12
I have the EHX #1 Echo and MXR Carbon Copy on my board. I've always liked the EHX and I'd buy the MXR just for the oscillations Its nice to have different options. The EHX has great repeats and they last up to 2 sec...but you can't beat the sound of the Carbon Copy.
H4T3BR33D3R
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#13
Hey guys,

Any recommendations for a delay that is going to be run in front of an amp?
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nightraven
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#14
Quote by eyebanez333
...but you can't beat the sound of the Carbon Copy.

yeah, i've yet to find a more sterile analogue delay than the CC. the MXR's oscillations are the only thing i like about that pedal :\
kylegumby
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#15
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Hey guys,

Any recommendations for a delay that is going to be run in front of an amp?



My first recommendation would be run it in the effects loop, if said amp has one. I've found that, typically, reverb/delay effects don't sound so hot before the preamp. This is less of an issue if you're playing clean, but dirt will bring out the worst.

Other than that, it depends on whether you want an analog or a digital sound. I prefer digital, since I like to do nasty things to my signal with delay pedals and they typically offer more in the way of tweakability and options. Analog will sound warmer - more natural, if you will - but are more limited (from what I've seen) in the areas of options and maximum delay time.

In short: there is no short answer. You've gotta play around or have a good idea of what you're looking for from the pedal. Give us some guidelines regarding what you'd like the delay to do and we'll be able to throw some suggestions at you.
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#16
Quote by kylegumby
My first recommendation would be run it in the effects loop, if said amp has one. I've found that, typically, reverb/delay effects don't sound so hot before the preamp. This is less of an issue if you're playing clean, but dirt will bring out the worst.

Other than that, it depends on whether you want an analog or a digital sound. I prefer digital, since I like to do nasty things to my signal with delay pedals and they typically offer more in the way of tweakability and options. Analog will sound warmer - more natural, if you will - but are more limited (from what I've seen) in the areas of options and maximum delay time.

In short: there is no short answer. You've gotta play around or have a good idea of what you're looking for from the pedal. Give us some guidelines regarding what you'd like the delay to do and we'll be able to throw some suggestions at you.


I want an analog delay, I have no effects loops. I'm using it for leads only really or clean tones.

I'd like it to be able to handle hotter signals without crapping out since it's going to be running up in front.
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kylegumby
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#17
Hm. Not a lot of experience with this application, so take it with a grain of salt and definitely wait for others to chime in:

A friend of mine has an Ibanez AD9, and I can testify that it sounds pretty awesome. Not a ton of delay time (300ms), but I would imagine that'd be enough for what you want to do with it. They're a little spendy at 140-150 bucks (edit: that's USD), but I'm of the opinion that delay is worth it.

Harmony Central reviews:
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Effects/product/Ibanez/AD-9+Analog+Delay/10/1

Ibanez product page:
http://www.ibanez.com/Electronics/model-AD9
Last edited by kylegumby at May 13, 2009,
nightraven
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#18
the AD9 is a cool pedal. you could also wait and see what the upcoming EHX Memory Boy is going to be like. it's designed to rival the other budget analog delays and could be good.

btw you won't need to worry about having to put it in the effects loop unless you're using a lot of preamp distortion. and even so, distortion after delay is pretty cool as well
kylegumby
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#19
Quote by nightraven
even so, distortion after delay is pretty cool as well


True enough, though I never really dug the sound, myself.
oz_bassist
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#20
Anyone have experience with a Boss DD-3? Good value for $100 Australian?

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kylegumby
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#21
Quote by oz_bassist
Anyone have experience with a Boss DD-3? Good value for $100 Australian?


Solid pedal, in my opinion. More of a lo-fi sound compared to the newer generations, which is good if that's what you're looking for. I personally like the sound of it a bit better than my DD-6. A bit slimmer than the DD-6 in the options department, but the DD-3 isn't lacking anything I'd miss in a digital delay. And, as with all Boss pedals I've ever owned, it'll outlive you and your grandkids - built like a tank. Overall, I wouldn't hesitate to drop that amount of cash on a DD-3.

Edit:
Just as a for-instance of the kind of sound you could expect from this, I use mine with a Big Muff and a detuned Tele for shoegaze-type stuff. Think My Bloody Valentine. I adore this pedal.

Though, obviously, it's all in the application.
Last edited by kylegumby at May 13, 2009,
mothership
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#22
I hated my dd-3. Why? Because its high is too harsh. really harsh. It's overdriven. Then it broke after a few months. Just home use only. Sold it as defective then I built a rebote delay. Though it uses the digital pt2399, it is still very warm analog sounding delay.
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and USD is equal to how much in US dollars?

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#23
Quote by eyebanez333
but you can't beat the sound of the Carbon Copy.

don't really care for the CC as it is WAYYY overrated but is still better than alot of delays out there. Wamplers AnalogEcho is the best delay I have ever used at a VERY reasonable price.
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Raijouta
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#24
Quote by kylegumby
And, as with all Boss pedals I've ever owned, it'll outlive you and your grandkids - built like a tank.


My DD-3's output broke.

So now I'm in search of a new digital delay, which is between the EHX SMMwH, Boss DD-7 and Line 6 DL4.

The DL4 concerns me because of the alleged reliability issues. The EHX concerns me because of the alleged sound quality issues, and the DD-7 concerns me due to space constraints.

The DD-7 has the longest overdub time for the looper, which is a plus. The DL4 has the whole 3 preset + tap tempo thing, and the EHX has a built-in tap tempo and looks cool. I like the sound too from what I've seen of it, but I dunno if the people use it have EQ'd the recording to hell and whatnot.
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SlappyMcLardfat
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#25
I'd like to recommend the Artec SE-ADL, which is an analog delay, but it's really only usable in front of the amp because it causes a huge volume drop in the loop. It oscillates well and has a very warm tone.

Also, my dd-20 is my most used pedal on my pedalboard. With the FS-5U it's unbeatable.
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Pickups for sale!
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#26
A slightly bigger font on the OP would help my eyes!
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#27
Burn the Dusk - I very much like your 2.0


yes, font on OP could be a tad bigger.

I like both analog and digital for different reasons and different applications.

I own an MXR Carbon Copy and an Digitech RP250.

I don't consider the CC to be sterile. I find it quite warm and full of lushness. Nightraven - check my Splawn Clean tone clip - I use it lightly on the second half. It's a bit muddy and needs a redo.

Edit: I'm not a Delay expert and have not tried that many delay pedals so my opinion is only that good.


I love pedal pr0nage:


Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at May 13, 2009,
lordofthefood1
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#28
Fun Technique: Doing two handed mutes with delay (as in both a left handed mute and a palm mute). Move your left hand from high to low while picking (I usually do a tremolo pick). Listen to the magic.
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#29
TTE ftl.


I has a big box Deluxe Memory Man. I wanna get a tape echo of some sort soon.
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#30
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Burn the Dusk - I very much like your 2.0
yes, font on OP could be a tad bigger.

It's All the rage is it not?

+ Recommendations updated.
+ Tricks updated.
+ Letters Resized on page 1

EDIT:
Quote by nightraven
5 delays? pushing it a little?

5 MORE delays.
I already have 2 .
And never such a think as pushing it .
There are so many polyrythmic Delay tricks you can do.
Plus who says im Using it all for guitar.
I'd use 3 on my keyboard and 4 on my guitar, as In my post rock projects I usually use both at once.
Last edited by [[BurnTheDusk]] at May 13, 2009,
lordofthefood1
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#31
Good example of the delay "trickle"
(to be edited in for examples of what it sounds like)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSEN5Jl4odg
beginning is cool beans, but it is at :50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9uf0NUslsg
:30
(Jesse likes to do it during this song)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goXI6V0mlIQ
(I'd jump to 3:20 if you don't want to watch the video)
3:30, 3:34, 4:23, 4:29, 4:35, 4:47, 4:58
(err, just the key times when Vin does them, to listen or look for them)


I like to do them for longer. It sounds great with filters below it.
Make sure you have a bright tone or it might not sound quite as trickle-y.
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bartdevil_metal
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#32
This thread is relevant to my interests. More tricks please!

One little trick I do at the beginning of one of my band's songs:

condensed down my pedal chain (the relevant parts to this trick) goes Delay->Volume-Delay. On the first delay make your feedback ridiculous, so it lasts for ages, reasonable time, maybe tempo tapped (but not oscillation, not if you value your hearing) the other delay needs to be set for a very short slapback delay time with a medium feedback (about half of the other one). You then play a lick, swell the volume into the other delay, and watch the craziness commence. Also, the level on the first delay should be set below unity, while the pedal after the volume pedal should be set to ever so slightly above unity.

This gets crazier with a killswitch.
...
Last edited by bartdevil_metal at May 13, 2009,
Dr.Pain-MD
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#34
Quote by JohnIsMyName
anyone have experience with the RE-20 space echo? it's intriguing, to say the least.

It sounds very good. I loved it when I tried it out.

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[quote="'[[BurnTheDusk"]]']Boss pedals may be built like tanks but I would rather buy a cardboard box that is on my side than pay for a tank that is working against me.
Jango22
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#35
Anyone ever hear of/try the Boss Digital Sampler/Delay? I got one from one of my parent's friends, and I like it.
Also, what are some delay-tastic songs that aren't too hard? I've got a max time of 800ms to work with.
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Last edited by Jango22 at May 13, 2009,
Raijouta
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#36
Quote by Jango22

Also, what are some delay-tastic songs that aren't too hard? I've got a max time of 800ms to work with.


Big Sur Moon by Buckethead is quite awesome-sounding. In a similar vein, check The Echo Song by Paul Gilbert.

Run Like Hell by Pink Floyd is popular too.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
What the hell is a G&L.



Quote by Flux'D
Gay & Lesbian I think, the box smelled funny
Greg what did you send me??
Kai07
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#37
I say, the best Delay pedal for me, is the BBE Two Timer.



BACK LIKE A HEART ATTACK
Jango22
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#38
how long of a delay should I use for the Echo Song? Also, feedback/repeat settings?
Gear:
Agile Ash RB 828
Schecter C-7 (old 90s style headstock)
Handbuilt 6-string V
Handbuilt Baritone scale 6 string Iceman-copy
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#39
Quote by Raijouta
Big Sur Moon by Buckethead is quite awesome-sounding. In a similar vein, check The Echo Song by Paul Gilbert.

Run Like Hell by Pink Floyd is popular too.

+1

Try some post rock?
DeltaFunk
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#40
I was planning on getting a Boss DD-20 when I finally do get a delay. I really like the multiple options and the ability to set Pre-Sets. The pseudo-looper is cool too.

I might also grab a MXR Carbon Copy, or Modtone Vintage Delay for an Analog delay at some point if the Analog setting on the DD-20 doesn't do it for me.
Rig
Fender 09 Standard Strat>Wilson Ten Spot II Wah>Boss DS-2 Turbo Distortion>EHX Big Muff Pi>Boss CE-2 Chorus>Crate V32 Palomino 212
Fender Deluxe Active Jazz Bass>(Same Pedals)>AcousticB20

Quote by WtrPlyr
I'm with DeltaFunk