#1
Okay, this isn't really about building the amp, but more of; which amp? So I decided I'd build an amp but I'm really clueless as to which one to build.

I got this website with schematics; http://schematicheaven.com/index_HTML.htm . So basicly, it would have to be an amp on this website(or any other amps if the schematic is available). Thing is, I really don't have a lot of knowledge when it comes to amps, so I need help deciding.

It would be really appreciated if you guys could check out the website and find the amp that suits me. I'm looking for a nice death metal/trash metal sound. Also, it's for practice, so it can't be something too "powerful". I'd also prefer it to be a tube amp, preferably a 30w one.

My first idea was a JCM800 2205 but yeah since I'm nowhere near gigging, I'll keep it for later. Then, I read some good comments about the Vox AC30's. Is this a good amp for the sound I am trying to achieve? If so, which model should I go with(out of the ones on the website I gave)?

If you guys could take a few minutes to just browse the list and enlighten me, I'd be very grateful. Also feel free to suggest me other amps that aren't on the website if you have a link to the schematic.

And before someone goes and post about them; I'm NOT looking for a kit. I'm looking to build my own amp from scratch.

Thanks a lot to whoever helps me!
Quote by MH400
a girl on the interwebz?

You have 2 options.

1. Tits.
2. GTFO.

Last edited by Spike6sic6 at Jun 26, 2009,
#2
First off.

If you don't know anything about building amps, it's going to be difficult. Building a tube amp is not as simple as just following a schematic. There is a specific methodology to layout, lead dressing, and you have to know what's going on for testing and diagnostics. That being said, sourcing parts can be difficult. Many kits come with very high quality parts, and if you're not familiar with how certain amps sound, I take it that you're not going to be familiar with what parts to go for.

Second, an AC30 is not what you're looking for. In fact, for what you want, it's very difficult to suggest something of 30 watts. And truth be told, building a JCM800 is not going to be much cheaper than just buying a JCM800.
Last edited by al112987 at Jun 26, 2009,
#3
Quote by al112987
First off.

If you don't know anything about building amps, it's going to be difficult. Building a tube amp is not as simple as just following a schematic. There is a specific methodology to layout, lead dressing, and you have to know what's going on for testing and diagnostics.

And no, an AC30 is not what you're looking for.


I have been studying electronics for half a year already. Please take in consideration this also implies testing and diagnostics. Should I add, the class I'm taking is specificly centered on repairing anything that's audio and video(TV's, DVD's, amps, radios, speakers, and the list goes on).

If I can also add, I wish to say I also do know a lot more then you probably think about the theory behind electronics and it's components. Like I said; my problem comes from my knowledge about guitar amps, nothing more. So please, if you could restrain yourself from just posting to increase your post count.

Finally, I've already completed more then a few projects, so as "challenging" as it might be, I'm willing to give it a shot. Besides with the knowledge I already have, just by looking at the schematic I can say that it really isn't that hard.

Edit:
Quote by al112987
And no, an AC30 is not what you're looking for.


Instead of just telling me I'm on the wrong track, maybe you could like try to help?

Please, I didn't ask for someone to tell me "Change your mind" go with something else. In life you gotta challenge yourself, that's how I see it. And yes I am willing to waste the time, effort and money to build it. So if someone could just, stick to what I asked?

Thank you.
Quote by MH400
a girl on the interwebz?

You have 2 options.

1. Tits.
2. GTFO.

Last edited by Spike6sic6 at Jun 26, 2009,
#4
You could try using an attenuator with the amp, so it won't be as loud and you still get a good tone
#5
I support your decision, if you have the know-how.
I snooped around the website and suggest the following as they are supposed to be great amps:
Ampeg G-12 Gemini
Fender Deluxe Reverb (not sure about the specific versions)
Fender Bassman (again, not sure about the versions)
Vox AC30s are great also (also not sure about the versions)
Good luck.

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#6
Quote by MannyC2107
You could try using an attenuator with the amp, so it won't be as loud and you still get a good tone


True I didn't think about that. But still, would there be anything that fits my needs on the website I gave the link to?
Quote by MH400
a girl on the interwebz?

You have 2 options.

1. Tits.
2. GTFO.

#7
Quote by Dr.Pain-MD
I support your decision, if you have the know-how.
I snooped around the website and suggest the following as they are supposed to be great amps:
Ampeg G-12 Gemini
Fender Deluxe Reverb (not sure about the specific versions)
Fender Bassman (again, not sure about the versions)
Vox AC30s are great also (also not sure about the versions)
Good luck.


Alright thanks for the info, I'll definatly be looking at those. It's nice to see people that are actually willing to help .
Quote by MH400
a girl on the interwebz?

You have 2 options.

1. Tits.
2. GTFO.

#8
Well, the JCM is about 50, I'd say that'd get you the closest to that trash tone from my experience.
^^^ Fenders and some Vox's are great amps, but not so much for trash/metal.

You might lose tone, but maybe a smaller cab with the JCM and attenuator?
#9
ok, now im not gonna comment on your knowledge. BUT, i will tell you why an AC30 wouldnt be the best amp to build.

you said you are after "a nice death metal/trash metal sound". an AC30 doesnt get much more gritty than about an AC/DC level of distortion. now, maybe with some mods or with a few pedals, that might be different. but a stock AC30 WILL NOT play thrash. (i would know, i tested one out yesterday )

im not sure what else you could make but mybe if you wanted to buy one the Blackheart HT5H ripps! just an FYI
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#10
Quote by Spike6sic6
I have been studying electronics for half a year already. Please take in consideration this also implies testing and diagnostics. Should I add, the class I'm taking is specificly centered on repairing anything that's audio and video(TV's, DVD's, amps, radios, speakers, and the list goes on).

If I can also add, I wish to say I also do know a lot more then you probably think about the theory behind electronics and it's components. Like I said; my problem comes from my knowledge about guitar amps, nothing more. So please, if you could restrain yourself from just posting to increase your post count.

Finally, I've already completed more then a few projects, so as "challenging" as it might be, I'm willing to give it a shot. Besides with the knowledge I already have, just by looking at the schematic I can say that it really isn't that hard.

Edit:


Instead of just telling me I'm on the wrong track, maybe you could like try to help?

Please, I didn't ask for someone to tell me "Change your mind" go with something else. In life you gotta challenge yourself, that's how I see it. And yes I am willing to waste the time, effort and money to build it. So if someone could just, stick to what I asked?

Thank you.

Before accusing me of posting to increase my post count why don't you read what I said.

No where in your first post did you say that you knew anything about building electronics so forgive me for jumping to the conclusion that someone who doesn't know what an AC30 sounds like will know what components to source for building an amp.

And read the rest of what I wrote, an AC30 does not fit your needs. In fact, of all the amps listed on that site, there will not be a single 30 watter or under that will get you a death metal tone worth the effort and money.
#11
Quote by MannyC2107
Well, the JCM is about 50, I'd say that'd get you the closest to that trash tone from my experience.
^^^ Fenders and some Vox's are great amps, but not so much for trash/metal.

You might lose tone, but maybe a smaller cab with the JCM and attenuator?


Well, I'm gonna be building the cab aswell so yeah, might as well go with the JCM.
Quote by MH400
a girl on the interwebz?

You have 2 options.

1. Tits.
2. GTFO.

#12
My two cents: Your average JCM won't give you death metal unless it's the 2210, and they're face-meltingly loud.
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#13
Quote by al112987
Before accusing me of posting to increase my post count why don't you read what I said.

No where in your first post did you say that you knew anything about building electronics so forgive me for jumping to the conclusion that someone who doesn't know what an AC30 sounds like will know what components to source for building an amp.

And read the rest of what I wrote, an AC30 does not fit your needs. In fact, of all the amps listed on that site, there will not be a single 30 watter or under that will get you a death metal tone worth the effort and money.


To put it simply; I didn't think that I would need to specify my current knowledge about electronics. I asked a few simple questions, and I was just expecting an answer to these specific questions.

And yeah sorry if I know nothing about guitar amps. In fact I've tried about 3 guitar amps in my life, and they were all crap. But that doesn't mean I have no knowledge about electronics.

So I'm sorry if I sounded harsh to you or anything, but looking at your post I'm sure you can understand that it wasn't very... helpful, to say the least.

I'll just conclude this little argument saying; what others can do, I can.
Quote by MH400
a girl on the interwebz?

You have 2 options.

1. Tits.
2. GTFO.

#14
well... I did say that an AC30 isn't what you were looking for and that you typically won't find a 30 watt amp that will suit what you're looking for due to a variety of reasons ranging to.... the design of low wattage amps, and the parts used in low wattage amps. I don't see how that is any less helpful than the other posts in this thread.

and I'm not trying to turn you off building amps, but if you're admittedly unfamiliar about amps, then there is a lot to learn about them and it's different from knowing something about electronics. I knew about electronics after several years of university level physics, and yet when I built my first amp I still hadn't the slightest clue what I was doing in terms of putting something together that actually sounded good. And I'm not suggesting that you can't pick it up because the number of resources on amp building are so plentiful that anyone who puts enough time towards it can learn such things. It's just that most people aren't willing to, and if you are then more power to you.
#15
Quote by al112987
well... I did say that an AC30 isn't what you were looking for and that you typically won't find a 30 watt amp that will suit what you're looking for due to a variety of reasons ranging to.... the design of low wattage amps, and the parts used in low wattage amps. I don't see how that is any less helpful than the other posts in this thread.

and I'm not trying to turn you off building amps, but if you're admittedly unfamiliar about amps, then there is a lot to learn about them and it's different from knowing something about electronics. I knew about electronics after several years of university level physics, and yet when I built my first amp I still hadn't the slightest clue what I was doing in terms of putting something together that actually sounded good. And I'm not suggesting that you can't pick it up because the number of resources on amp building are so plentiful that anyone who puts enough time towards it can learn such things. It's just that most people aren't willing to, and if you are then more power to you.


It's just to me, "That amp doesn't fit your needs" isn't an helpful answer. Sure I know it's not what I'm looking for, but it's not what I call help.

And I'm not saying you do not know what you're talking about; but what does electronics have to do with physics? Sure, the basics of electricity. But corret me if I'm wrong, physics has barely anything to do with electronics(other then the basics). In physics, do you even learn how a transistor works(how it works, not what it is)?

I'm not saying you are wrong. Just, aren't physics limited to like, ohm's law? I'd highly doubt it if you told me you TRULY learned electronics during your studies in physics.

Edit: When I say knowing electronics, I mean the solid theory behind it. I'd be curious to know what's your answer to a simple question such as "How does a transistor work?". And no, "It amplifies a signal." is not a good answer. Or concerning transistors, do you even know what common collector means? If you do then sorry, I shouldn't have doubted about you. Otherwise then... meh.
Quote by MH400
a girl on the interwebz?

You have 2 options.

1. Tits.
2. GTFO.

Last edited by Spike6sic6 at Jun 26, 2009,
#16
Yeah... physics is a bit more in depth than just "Ohm's law." And last I checked electronics courses are not physics? Ok fine, a physics based electronics course builds everything up from fundamentals of electricity and magnetism, so sure, maybe in your view it has little value outside of solving math problems, but hey if the electric engineering students have to take it, I imagine it's somewhat valuable for practical purposes.


Edit: When I say knowing electronics, I mean the solid theory behind it. I'd be curious to know what's your answer to a simple question such as "How does a transistor work?". And no, "It amplifies a signal." is not a good answer. Or concerning transistors, do you even know what common collector means? If you do then sorry, I shouldn't have doubted about you. Otherwise then... meh
First off, I'm not going to go on a physics tanget at 3am. But out of interest sake, what is "solid theory"? Would you like me to talk about how semi-conductors work? How current is created through doping agents? High electron/low electron density molecules? I neither feel like talking about a boring subject, nor feel like I need to prove to a random stranger that your typical university physics class teaches beyond "Ohms law." Speaking of which, I learned about transistors through inorganic and solid state chemistry, so just like we're taught more than "a transistor increases a signal" I'll give you the heads up that you also learn more than "H2O is water" in chemistry.

Edit: again.
I don't see how this is even relevant, all I'm saying is that amp building know-how is different from electronics know-how. It is completely unscientific and entirely experience based. If you really feel like inquiring me on whether or not physics has useful and practical implications, then PM me unless oyu want your thread to get locked for irrelevance.
Last edited by al112987 at Jun 26, 2009,
#17
The only amps on that list I would even consider for Death Metal are the Mesas.

Specifically: the DC, Mark III, Mark IV and the Dual Recto (2 Channel).


Though, the Marshall 6100 and SL-X would be cool for Thrash; as well as the Ampeg VL-1002.
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Last edited by MatrixClaw at Jun 26, 2009,
#18
Quote by al112987
Yeah... physics is a bit more in depth than just "Ohm's law." And last I checked electronics courses are not physics? Ok fine, a physics based electronics course builds everything up from fundamentals of electricity and magnetism, so sure, maybe in your view it has little value outside of solving math problems, but hey if the electric engineering students have to take it, I imagine it's somewhat valuable for practical purposes.

First off, I'm not going to go on a physics tanget at 3am. But out of interest sake, what is "solid theory"? Would you like me to talk about how semi-conductors work? How current is created through doping agents? High electron/low electron density molecules? I neither feel like talking about a boring subject, nor feel like I need to prove to a random stranger that your typical university physics class teaches beyond "Ohms law." Speaking of which, I learned about transistors through inorganic and solid state chemistry, so just like we're taught more than "a transistor increases a signal" I'll give you the heads up that you also learn more than "H2O is water" in chemistry.

Edit: again.
I don't see how this is even relevant, all I'm saying is that amp building know-how is different from electronics know-how. It is completely unscientific and entirely experience based. If you really feel like inquiring me on whether or not physics has useful and practical implications, then PM me unless oyu want your thread to get locked for irrelevance.


Alright, well I talked to much. But hey, maybe I lack the experience, I won't deny it. But that doesn't mean I do not have the knowledge, or the patience. This is pretty much 90% for the studies/experimenting, so if I have a hard time, then it's just better. There's only one way to gain experience; and it's by experimenting.

Now like you said, this thread is disgressing and that wasn't my intention when I started it. So let's just forget everything about the experience/knowledge/whatever, and stick to the topic. So, which amp should I go with?
Quote by MH400
a girl on the interwebz?

You have 2 options.

1. Tits.
2. GTFO.

#19
Most 30 watt or under amps just don't have the low end response to really make going through all the experimentation worth it. Your best bet is to just go ahead and look at a higher wattage amp and an atteunator. Typically one would probably go for a Mesa Boogie or something, but they're really way too complicated to reasonably try to handwire. If I were to build any amp of the ones listed, I would build the Marshall 2550 Silver Jubilee, which is a "perfected" (so to speak) 2210.

As for the experience thing, if you have the patience to do it, then all is dandy, since no one has experience until they actually do it anyway.
#20
Quote by Spike6sic6
It would be really appreciated if you guys could check out the website and find the amp that suits me. I'm looking for a nice death metal/trash metal sound. Also, it's for practice, so it can't be something too "powerful". I'd also prefer it to be a tube amp, preferably a 30w one.
)

Power isn't really a big issue for metal, since it tends to rely on preamp distortion and external gain rather than breakup of power tubes.

I'd suggest finding some Mesa Boogie schematics, but they're very complex amps and I'm not sure how they could be duplicated without a PCB. No harm in trying.

Perhapd you could start with a 5150 circuit as a loose template, and then mod to your heart's content to get the sound you want.
#21
Quote by MatrixClaw
The only amps on that list I would even consider for Death Metal are the Mesas.

Specifically: the DC, Mark III, Mark IV and the Dual Recto (2 Channel).


Though, the Marshall 6100 and SL-X would be cool for Thrash; as well as the Ampeg VL-1002.


Dammit. You beat me to it. The other amps won't get anywhere near death metal, although if you're gonna build a Mesa clone be prepared for alot of work. They also have Soldanos and Egnaters, which could get you close to Death Metal.

On another note, for some reason they have a schematic for the Spider II 15 watt.
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Last edited by mmolteratx at Jun 26, 2009,
#22
Regarding electronics knowledge...

Take it from me, any electronics knowledge you have is essentially useless when dealing with tubes, unless you took a class on tubes. Tubes and transistors are so unlike each other, it's just not a good comparison to try to make. It's akin to having a master's degree in inorganic chemistry and then trying to get a job as an organic chemist. Sure, it can be done, but the results will not be good.

What I HIGHLY recommend doing is building a kit. There are a few such places... www.ceritone.com, Ted Weber's site, and www.ax84.com. I highly recommend AX84, they have a wonderful theory document there explaining how their amp works (the P1). I'd recommend building their P1 first, an SEL second, and then you should be ready to go from schematic.

I'm not trying to insult you or anything. It's just that there are a lot of things you need to be aware of when building an amp that aren't obvious but will ruin your amp if you don't know about. Kits are good because all of this thinking is done for you, so you can observe and learn the tricks of the trade before trying to impliment them yourself. And I say all this because when I got started 5 years ago, I thought that my electronics background would help. In the end, it meant precisely nothing, other than that I knew how to read a schematic. Just speaking from personal experience is all.
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#23
I'm not very familier with thrash music but...
I'll recommend the Sunn Model T (it's in the post 70's section)
Seems like it could get pretty heavy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpPEVyFGB0k

And btw I support you man...the best things happen in life when you decide to jump into something you're not familiar with!
Last edited by ARguitars at Jun 26, 2009,
#24
Quote by DLrocket89
Regarding electronics knowledge...

What I HIGHLY recommend doing is building a kit. There are a few such places... www.ceritone.com, Ted Weber's site, and www.ax84.com. I highly recommend AX84, they have a wonderful theory document there explaining how their amp works (the P1). I'd recommend building their P1 first, an SEL second, and then you should be ready to go from schematic.
I agree with this. I also think that kits are good to start with, because it does the most tedious part (imo) which is sourcing parts. The only reason I wouldn't build a kit is if there was a specific component that I wanted (say I wanted to use carbon comp resistors but the kit only comes with carbon film, or there was a particular style OT I wanted to use, but most good kits will usually provide high quality parts)
#25
kurtlives91 knows a lot about building amps. He has a thread about building a Tweed Deluxe. You should PM him.
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#26
As soon as I recieve the kit, I'll be starting a kit building tutorial over in the GB&C area, if you can wait a few weeks for me to get started, it'd probably help some.
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