#1
= By Paco de Lucia =
Guajiras De Lucia : http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/ILLcoyote/music/all/play646679
Zarda de Monti: http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/ILLcoyote/music/all/play646676

Farruca by Sabicas: http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/ILLcoyote/music/all/play646671 (hope you don't mind the buzzy distortion here and there..)

Maria by Francisco Tarrega: http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/ILLcoyote/music/all/play646615

Spanish Caravan (first 2 mins) by The Doors: http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/ILLcoyote/music/all/play646682


Comments are always appreciated =] Of course, these were all played without a pick =] IF you want to hear the difficult ones, try the Farruca or the Guajiras de Lucia. If you want to hear something you'll probably like, listen to Zarda de Monty. Unless you're a big time metal head, 95%+ of the people usually like that one =]

I used a old and cheap nylon guitar a friend of mine let me borrow =P Found out it's worth $49.99 so... It has some dying frets and the entire 10-11 fret section is just horrible on all strings. The Farruca from Sabicas was my first one so that's where I learned a little about distortion caused by too much sound... As I did more recordings, I got better at... well... recording =P I've slowly discovering what settings are best for the best quality sound. The Guajiras is also unfinished as I've yet to learn/memorize the entire thing but have 2 mins down, you probably wouldn't listen to the entire thing anyways lol, BUSTED!

I think I need to work on my rhythm/keeping-perfect-tempo a little but I've only been fingerpicking (picados, rasgueados, abanicos, etc.) since January so I'm still trying to better my technique to a pro level =P

Comments are appreciated =] If you can manage to tell me which parts (by the min:sec) were off, etc. that would be THE BEST =]
Last edited by ILLcoyote at Jul 1, 2009,
#2
Even though this is pretty much reposting for extra attention I'll comment a bit.

First one I listened to was Sabicas' Farruca. Seemed good, but you're in over your head. It's too fast, slow down. A Farruca is a sad style anyways so if you're playing at a slower tempo that's not going to hurt the song in itself.
Zarda de Monti seemed pretty good but with every song you seem to be playing a bit above your own capabilities, you're going too fast. The Guajiras was very good, and that understates my point since it's not a song that's as hard and especially fast to play. It's not that you can't play at that speed, it's just that your playing isn't as even and in the correct tempo anymore. The timing is off if you have to play too fast.
Tarrega's Maria seems well within your capabilities when talkind speed or technique, chords and whatnot. But you have to learn to stay in the right tempo, some parts are downright confusing where you'll be starting at parts in the song where it's unexpected and that makes it strange to listen too. Your skill is there, the experience however , and especially the experience as a 'listener' isn't there yet.
Wise Man Says: The guitar is obviously female, she's got hips, breasts... and a hole.
UG's Flamenco Club
#3
=] thanks for the feedback! I've only just started playing with my fingers in January so I've only just developed that technique, though I do understand I need to fix my tempo.

Well to be honest, the MAIN reason (I think) my tempo is off is because I don't have the actual sheet music to any of them and I don't think I've ever heard the originals. I've seen/heard many different people play in... many different tempos lol =P Each of them slows down or speeds up in different sections so I don't really know when I'm supposed to speed up or slow down I just kinda throw it here and there. I'm not very trained as far as tempo goes so I can't really figure it out on my own =\ Actually, those ARE my attempts at figuring it out on my own =P The guitar pro files... there's parts that it's obviously not in the correct tempo (based on what I've seen on youtube) and I just play at my own pace based on a little bit from everyone I've seen =P Honestly, the way I played it was done on purpose, not that I slowed down or went fast in certain parts by accident, it's just my interpretation of the tempo =P

The Farruca, I definately have seen the better players play it slower than how I played it in some parts but I've also seen those that play it at about my speed if not quicker =P (not necessarily the scales)

The Guajiras.... I actually thought that one was the hardest one =P What do you mean it's not as hard as the others? lol Also, the Guajiras is actually faster than how I've played it. I've seen/heard Paco play it a quicker and I've also seen others play it quicker. I've also seen other plays it slower but that's the more inexperienced ones...

The Zarda de Monti.. what do you mean I was going to fast? From what I've seen, it seemed to be just right... I actually thought the middle/soloish part might of been a little too slow... Not sure if you're right about that one... But to be big time honest, I played it while having guitar pro playing in the background so I could follow that tempo (except for a small part when the second guitar shuts up a bit and just before the middle section 'cuz that part was obviously wrong from guitar pro). So if anything, for this one, blame G-Pro

You're right about me needing to work on my tempo but I think you're off in some details. But like you said, the experience isn't quite there yet =] Of course, within time/experience, I'll get there =] Since time-wise, I don't have much experience with this style =P Also, I didn't double post it for 'more attention' it's just that... I had no idea where to post it lol, but from the looks of it, I'll take the other post off.
Last edited by ILLcoyote at Jun 28, 2009,
#4
I might have not been clear enough on the 'tempo'. What I meant was that once you have to play faster than you're able to, your timing of all the 16th(for example) notes is off. And in some places where there's a break in between the notes you're sometimes too early or too late with coming back in with the song.

The easiest techniques are the hardest to master, and if you're going to be playing 4 different strings with your p-i-m-a fingers that's easier to pull off than one single string playing i-m rolls all the time and make it sound just as clean.

As for the music itself, you need to read up on what every different style of flamenco means. What emotion you want to put in a song is more important than at what speed you're playing it. As a musician I know exactly where you're coming from. I've been playing guitar for a while now and 2 years after I started I began playing electric guitar. It wasn't untill 2 years ago that I started playing this kind of stuff again.
Wise Man Says: The guitar is obviously female, she's got hips, breasts... and a hole.
UG's Flamenco Club
#5
I actually thought I did play it pretty clean... But maybe you're reffering to playing a clean tempo/timing/rhythm?

Not sure what you mean faster than I'm able to either. I mean, I can play at that speed every time with little difficulty with i-m. EVERY 16th note (as the example) is off? How do you figure that out? =\ Sorry, having a bit of trouble understanding like on which song and which part/min:sec. I've never really had a guitar teacher so I've never been too good at being explained by others unless they pinpoint things.. OR are you saying that if the entire song is played much quicker that the scales themselves should also be playing much faster (thus every 16th note would be off in terms of speed)? By 16th notes, are you referring to the scales? Just about the entire thing, such as the Guajiras, is in 16th notes =P... or... if you ever get a chance to, look at the guitar pro files of them and tell me if it makes any sense with the way other people play it lol, now those guitar pro tabs have some WEIRD tempos, slows down and speeds up all weird. The Zarda one, I do understand that I was off in a few places (in the middle soloish part). The others.. It's hard to see where I'd be off as far as scales go... During the other parts where it's not scales, I do find a lot of spots where I was off so that I would understand too =P Btw, the Guajiras, at the end, I did mess up the rhythm, but I did because I was having trobule remembering that part lol From that part on, I'm still just learning/trying-to-memorize- the darn thing =P It's hard to remember so many darn notes lol, rock is so much easier to remember.. Ever change is a b**ch to 'muscle memorize'

The thing that sucks is that fn roomp3 seems to be remodeling their player and you can't even see the min:sec to the song >_<

Btw, do you know that I'm off because of ear experience or because you've heard the originals? ""And in some places where there's a break in between the notes you're sometimes too early or too late with coming back in with the song."" - Is it on every single song? How many times per song? I'm just hoping you don't find more 'off-spots' than I hear 'cuz if you do, then you can blame me never having heard the original or what because I wouldn't know if that's supposed to be quicker or slower at that certain section. Sounds like everyone (except for Grisha Goryachev) on youtube if off then 'cuz most of them play even weider tempo changes =P

The easiest techniques are the hardest to master, and if you're going to be playing 4 different strings with your p-i-m-a fingers that's easier to pull off than one single string playing i-m rolls all the time and make it sound just as clean.
Just double checking, are you saying my i-m is better than my p-i-m-a-e fingers? (I actually use my pinky too, specially in the Farruca piece) Seems like your English is just as bad as mine lol Clean how?

Sorry, this is the first time I ever post anything anywhere and first time I get advice so it's hard for me to understand clearly =\ Well, a lot of times I can play them better but I have this thing for getting nervous when playing something meaningful (like recording it, rather than just playing it) and bleh, that was just my take for that time =P I usually play them something like that, but also fix a few certain parts where I obviously messed up the rhythm. Maybe I should of done more than just 1 take and chosen the best one... I just recorded it and that's it =P no re-doing since I usually don't have to. It's easier when you've heard the original... then I can match it to that rather than trying to figure it out
Last edited by ILLcoyote at Jun 28, 2009,
#6
I'll try to explain as good as I can. First about the i-m being better, I mean it's the exact opposite. The p-i-m-a (or in whatever order you wish to play) techniques, call them arpeggios if you will. Are not as hard as a perfect i-m (picado).
You have the difference between 4 fingers that you can use one after the other and thus have a lot of time to prepare every finger to be used again. You won't think of it, but it does work that way. Now as to what is wrong with your technique, and a lot of people have this problem.

They don't think of every note seperately, but their technique is a chain. This is because not every finger is as strong as the other, if they were you would be able to play perfectly.
Your index and middle finger are not the same size(usually) and do not have to same strength, thus your playing will become uneven if you have to play too fast. Mind you, this also happens to people playing with a pick.

But what you need to practice (technique-wise, not as a song that's a whole different story) is learning to play every note seperately. You have to THINK every time you move either of the 2 fingers. Because what I hear in your playing, is what many other people do. And that is that your fingers are playing as a 'reaction' on the other finger playing.

Because you just moved either 2 of your fingers, the other one is 'allowed' to move. And since you fingers aren't the exact same, their reaction time differs, their sound differs, and that results in every 16th note not being in the exact same rythm. In some case when there's a picado part there will be notes that are a little off timing, and that needs work. Slowing down will help you concentrate on each note seperately and play them at the right time at the right volume.

This is the exact same for p-i-m-a parts, but since you rarely play at the speed where you can't keep up anymore it's not heard that often. But it's very important to not make each note a 'reaction' but a real note.

As of now I'll be making a flamenco group, there seem to be more and more people coming to UG that play this style and it would only seem right to have one. I'll send you an invite later.
Wise Man Says: The guitar is obviously female, she's got hips, breasts... and a hole.
UG's Flamenco Club
#8
Quote by FretboardToAsh
I'll try to explain as good as I can. First about the i-m being better, I mean it's the exact opposite. The p-i-m-a (or in whatever order you wish to play) techniques, call them arpeggios if you will. Are not as hard as a perfect i-m (picado).
You have the difference between 4 fingers that you can use one after the other and thus have a lot of time to prepare every finger to be used again. You won't think of it, but it does work that way. Now as to what is wrong with your technique, and a lot of people have this problem.

They don't think of every note seperately, but their technique is a chain. This is because not every finger is as strong as the other, if they were you would be able to play perfectly.
Your index and middle finger are not the same size(usually) and do not have to same strength, thus your playing will become uneven if you have to play too fast. Mind you, this also happens to people playing with a pick.

But what you need to practice (technique-wise, not as a song that's a whole different story) is learning to play every note seperately. You have to THINK every time you move either of the 2 fingers. Because what I hear in your playing, is what many other people do. And that is that your fingers are playing as a 'reaction' on the other finger playing.

Because you just moved either 2 of your fingers, the other one is 'allowed' to move. And since you fingers aren't the exact same, their reaction time differs, their sound differs, and that results in every 16th note not being in the exact same rythm. In some case when there's a picado part there will be notes that are a little off timing, and that needs work. Slowing down will help you concentrate on each note seperately and play them at the right time at the right volume.

This is the exact same for p-i-m-a parts, but since you rarely play at the speed where you can't keep up anymore it's not heard that often. But it's very important to not make each note a 'reaction' but a real note.

As of now I'll be making a flamenco group, there seem to be more and more people coming to UG that play this style and it would only seem right to have one. I'll send you an invite later.


Just read you're profile that you've been teaching guitar for a while and have covered many different styles, including the flamenco... this would make sense to why your logic is SOO complex lol What you just tried to explain to me kinda makes sense to me but it's so hard to understand lol. I think you're also referring to me
playing some notes of the scales a bit louder than the others.

Actually, I just read through your middle part of your message about 10 times and I think I'm catching on about the reaction thing.. how since the fingers are a bit different, the reaction time differs. How very complicated =P Guess there is a lot more to technique than I expected. Just by listening to my recordings, it's hard for me to pick up what you mean but if I 'imagine' it, it makes more sense. Also, keep in mind there's some stupid frets as you go into the 10-11 fret area (through all strings) so that part will also make the notes sound uneven because some of them make that extra buzzing noise =P From my understanding, not saying you're wrong, you're saying that my dynamics are a bit uneven in my picado. Dynamics being how soft/hard/loud the notes are played.

Thanks for the comment there metal rocker =P