#1
Hey everyone, over the last week or so I've been learning theory... and it's been going well.

And I have a question that has been raised due to my recent 'enlightenment'... and that is... what type of scale has for, example... a root,m2, M2, m3, M3, and a perfect 4th. I ask this 'cause two of the first songs I learned has such a 'scale' in it... the songs are 'Blackbird - The Beatles' and the Mario theme...

so what scale is HHHHH (H=Half-tone)?


edit: Also, I've come across an Interval called 'Tritone'... could someone please explain it to me?

Thanks, Ganphra....
Last edited by Ganphra at Jun 28, 2009,
#2
HHHHH would be a chromatic scale, although it would technically go HHHHHHHHHHHH. A tritone is an interval that's literally 3 tones. So 6 semitones, or open string and 6th fret. Try it out, you will see that it sounds really cool. Also known as a diminished 5th or augmented 4th.

And Blackbird's in G major for the most part.
#3
That would usually be analyzed as a chromatic run which comes from the chromatic scale, although the song would almost certainly be tonal and then be in X major or X minor. You would have to look at the overall tonality of a song and where it resolves to determine the key. Out of key notes are allowed.
#4
Thanks for the replies guys!! Also the tritone has a neat sound to it, thanks!!
#5
Fun fact: the tritone is sometimes known as the devil's interval because of its (supposed) evil sound. The tritone in a V7 chord is one thing that makes it pull so strongly back to the root chord. Same for the tritone in a diminished chord. Just some little fun facts.
#6
Quote by pwrmax
HHHHH would be a chromatic scale, although it would technically go HHHHHHHHHHHH. A tritone is an interval that's literally 3 tones. So 6 semitones, or open string and 6th fret. Try it out, you will see that it sounds really cool. Also known as a diminished 5th or augmented 4th.

And Blackbird's in G major for the most part.


Just an aside: a tritone is an augmented 4th, not a diminished 5th as technically calling it a diminished 5th would make it a 4 tone interval.

Picky I know, but may as well learn it properly.
Last edited by Myshadow46_2 at Jun 29, 2009,
#7
a tritone is an interval between a perfect 4th and perfect 5th. It's the first thing you hear in the theme for the simpsons. dude above me got it right.
You are not a slave...
#8
Quote by Myshadow46_2
Just an aside: a tritone is an augmented 4th, not a diminished 5th as technically calling it a diminished 5th would make it a 4 tone interval.

Picky I know, but may as well learn it properly.


a diminished fifth and an augmented fourth are enharmonic... meaning they sound exactly the same. What you call it depends on the context. It's still three whole tones away no matter what you call it.
#9
Quote by toolfan_121
a tritone is an interval between a perfect 4th and perfect 5th. It's the first thing you hear in the theme for the simpsons. dude above me got it right.

first 2 notes in the simpsons are C and E, thats a major 3rd interval, NOT a tritone.
#10
I think its a augmented 4th or diminished 5th based on context, like in the Lydian mode its an augmented 4th because the mode has a natural 5th and no natural 4th, but in the Locrian mode the tritone interval is a diminished 5th because the mode already has a natural 4th and no natural 5th.
#11
Quote by timeconsumer09
a diminished fifth and an augmented fourth are enharmonic... meaning they sound exactly the same. What you call it depends on the context. It's still three whole tones away no matter what you call it.


He's right though. It's common to apply the term to both, but "tritone" does refer specifically to an augmented fourth, which spans three intervals of a second. A diminished fifth spans two seconds and a third.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#13
Quote by Archeo Avis
He's right though. It's common to apply the term to both, but "tritone" does refer specifically to an augmented fourth, which spans three intervals of a second. A diminished fifth spans two seconds and a third.


Oh. Hm, I really did not know that the term tritone specifically refers to the augmented fourth. Learn something new every day, I suppose. Thanks!
#14
Quote by z4twenny
first 2 notes in the simpsons are C and E, thats a major 3rd interval, NOT a tritone.


Not the actual theme, he means the intro, where the vocal "The Simpsons" is. "The Simp" is a tritone.
"I love music, it's not like math. In music, 2+2 can equal 5, if it's a pretty enough 5." -Samuel R. Hazo

"Alle menschen werden bruder- all men become brothers"
-Ludwig Van Beethoven, from his 9th Symphony.

-John
#15
Quote by timeconsumer09
Oh. Hm, I really did not know that the term tritone specifically refers to the augmented fourth. Learn something new every day, I suppose. Thanks!


It's not a distinction that comes up frequently. It's rare that anyone would fault you for referring to a diminished fifth as a tritone.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#16
What a load of crap.

The term tritone refers to an interval with a distance of three tones (tri = three, tone = tone). That is it.

The distance from the root to the diminished fifth is three whole tones or a "tritone" and the distance from the root to augmented fourth is also three whole tones or a "tritone".

There is no theoretical or nomenclative rule that says or implies the distance between a root and a diminished fifth must be broken down into four parts. You could describe the distance as three whole tones (as in the name "tritone") in the same way that one would be totally 100% correct to describe the distance of a perfect fifth as being seven semitones.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Jun 30, 2009,
#17
Quote by 20Tigers
What a load of crap.

The term tritone refers to an interval with a distance of three tones (tri = three, tone = tone). That is it.

The distance from the root to the diminished fifth is three whole tones or a "tritone" and the distance from the root to augmented fourth is also three whole tones or a "tritone".

There is no theoretical or nomenclative rule that says or implies the distance between a root and a diminished fifth must be broken down into four parts. You could describe the distance as three whole tones (as in the name "tritone") in the same way that one would be totally 100% correct to describe the distance of a perfect fifth as being seven semitones.


Unfortunately, most music theorists and textbooks on the subject disagree with you. It's not uncommon to use the term tritone to refer to both, but the term technically refers only to an augmented fourth.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#19
Quote by tenfold
Why?


If you take to "tone" to mean a major second, only an augmented fourth is made up of three major seconds, or three tones. A diminished fifth is two major seconds plus a diminished third.
#20
Quote by 20Tigers
There is no theoretical or nomenclative rule that says or implies the distance between a root and a diminished fifth must be broken down into four parts. You could describe the distance as three whole tones (as in the name "tritone") in the same way that one would be totally 100% correct to describe the distance of a perfect fifth as being seven semitones.


Depends. Within our 12-edo centric perspective, what is a tone? Is it specifically a major second (as many sources will say) or little more than 1:6 octave? If the latter, it could be a major second or a diminished third (indeed, you can't spell out a whole tone scale without a diminished third).
Last edited by Dodeka at Jun 30, 2009,