Poll: Nelson Mandela: Hero or Terrorist
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View poll results: Nelson Mandela: Hero or Terrorist
Hero
50 70%
Terrorist
21 30%
Voters: 71.
#1
His ANC guerrilla campaign killed a lot of innocent people. Why is he held in such regard by everyone if he's such a bad person?


Edit: Sorry for no middle ground option. A question like this is not as simple as black and white.
Last edited by guitarnoobie at Jun 28, 2009,
#2
Hero.

He f*cked the Apartheid.
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#3
Because he's the anti-racist


To quote Star Trek: "One worlds hero is another world's butcher."
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Last edited by StewieSwan at Jun 28, 2009,
#4
I dont like him. he refused to condemn mugabes opression at first too and i disagree with having to murder loads of people get a change. The 'best of two evils' is still evil. The innocents who died lives are over now regardless of what change he brought about. I dont like people who find it right to take other peoples lives away because of some cause they believe in.

This is the same for all of it. There's too many people now saying 'we need a revolution' who think the best way to get a change is violence and people getting shot and all that bull**** and i ****ing hate them. There is no reason for that sort of action.
Last edited by Zoot Allures at Jun 28, 2009,
#5
I would still consider him a hero. I don't know all the details of his Spear of the Nation organization (the ANC were not a terrorist group; quite the opposite), but I don't believe innocent people were killed regularly. They were more into sabotage.

Plus, being in jail for 20+ years for no particular reason must have really sucked.
#8
Quote by guitarnoobie
His ANC guerrilla campaign killed a lot of innocent people. Why is he held in such regard by everyone if he's such a bad person?



Well when you look it at it from that point of view but that's only part of the story read about everything he's done
#11
hero. him freeing the people of south africa out weighs the bad stuff he did. same thing with cesar chavez
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#12
Quote by lzcougarz3
He was an hero.


WUT? HE'S DEAD, TOO?!
funkyducky


Icing happen when de puck come down, BANG, you know,
before de oder guys, nobody dere, you know.
My arm go comme ça, den de game stop den start up.

Quote by daytripper75
Get To Da Choppa!
#13
Well as the old adage goes, "One's man terrorist is another's freedom fighter," I honestly don't think we are in a position to judge the man as we have not experienced the social circumstances that he had to go through during his life.

And to people saying that they don't like it when people feel the need to fight for change. Get over yourself. Many things that you do in life and value are allowed because people have fought for change, violent, and non violent.

From what I can see this man changed the world for the better, and thus is a hero.
#14
Where's the "both" option?

Plus I'm pretty sure a lot of people consider Bin Laden a hero...
#15
Quote by Zoot Allures
I dont like him. he refused to condemn mugabes opression at first too and i disagree with having to murder loads of people get a change. The 'best of two evils' is still evil. The innocents who died lives are over now regardless of what change he brought about. I dont like people who find it right to take other peoples lives away because of some cause they believe in.

This is the same for all of it. There's too many people now saying 'we need a revolution' who think the best way to get a change is violence and people getting shot and all that bull**** and i ****ing hate them. There is no reason for that sort of action.


I don't know a whole lot about the topic other than what's been said here, but from what I've read, to this I'd say good luck overthrowing an oppressive regime (which I'm guessing was violently oppressive) peacefully. The only way to accomplish that is with the support of pretty much the entire population, which iirc would be impossible for him due to the white apartheid supporters present.

And if you disagree, here's something for you to think about (sorry if this isn't quite the same, like I said i don't know much about the situation in south africa at the time, so i'm assuming it's somewhat similar, if not, then just consider what I said above to apply to things like this) : Take any regime that violently oppresses it's people, like Nazi Germany, or Stalinist Russia; now how could you possibly overthrow that regime peacefully, when the regime will have no qualms about silencing you the moment you speak out against it? How would you protect yourself from this without violence?

The only way to defend yourself against an enemy who will kill you without hesitation is to fight back with as little hesitation, or run and hide. If you do the latter, you can't really overthrow the regime.

Quote by Zugunruhe
theres no difference.

This. Hero and Villain, right and wrong, good and evil, all these terms are meaningless and determined entirely through perspective.
#17
Quote by guitarnoobie
His ANC guerrilla campaign killed a lot of innocent people. Why is he held in such regard by everyone if he's such a bad person?


Edit: Sorry for no middle ground option. A question like this is not as simple as black and white.


Well, the American Revolution killed people and we consider those people heroes. In most cases, in order to get **** done, you have to break a few eggs to make an omellette.


Quote by Zoot Allures
I dont like him. he refused to condemn mugabes opression at first too and i disagree with having to murder loads of people get a change. The 'best of two evils' is still evil. The innocents who died lives are over now regardless of what change he brought about. I dont like people who find it right to take other peoples lives away because of some cause they believe in.

This is the same for all of it. There's too many people now saying 'we need a revolution' who think the best way to get a change is violence and people getting shot and all that bull**** and i ****ing hate them. There is no reason for that sort of action.


Then how do you suppose people fight corruption? Violence is sometimes the answer, marching will get you killed sometimes, violence isn't always the answer, but sometimes it is, and when it is used, it's generally effective. I doubt the colonist's problems would have been solved by peaceful protest.
Due what you want as long as you vote Due!
Last edited by tayroar at Jun 29, 2009,
#18
Reminds me of Che Guevara. You've 13 year old kids running around with t shirts of him without knowing a ****ing thing he did. And WHY is he held in high regard??


Same with Ghandi. He was friends with Hitler for christs sake and suggested Jews commit mass suicide..
#19
Quote by Z_cup_boy
Reminds me of Che Guevara. You've 13 year old kids running around with t shirts of him without knowing a ****ing thing he did. And WHY is he held in high regard??


Same with Ghandi. He was friends with Hitler for christs sake and suggested Jews commit mass suicide..


Ghandi is held in high regard because he led a peaceful protest and succeeded, he was arrogant as hell but he deserves it. Guevara is a matter of perspective, I personally respect the man because he saw a problem and did something about it, he saw corruption and overthrew it, corruption should be eradicated. He did however go overboard with it. So it could go either way.
Due what you want as long as you vote Due!
#20
Ghandi was a pacifist who believed the Jews should commit mass suicide.

Nothnx.
#21
Quote by Z_cup_boy
Ghandi was a pacifist who believed the Jews should commit mass suicide.

Nothnx.


This. While I do admire Gandhi for his part in the struggle for Indian independance, there are some cases where pacifism simply doesn't work.
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#22
He was a terroristic hero?


He used terrorism to become a hero?

it's possible to be both or neither, you know..
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I hope tomorrow, neon black
#23
Quote by dark&broken
I don't know a whole lot about the topic other than what's been said here, but from what I've read, to this I'd say good luck overthrowing an oppressive regime (which I'm guessing was violently oppressive) peacefully. The only way to accomplish that is with the support of pretty much the entire population, which iirc would be impossible for him due to the white apartheid supporters present.

And if you disagree, here's something for you to think about (sorry if this isn't quite the same, like I said i don't know much about the situation in south africa at the time, so i'm assuming it's somewhat similar, if not, then just consider what I said above to apply to things like this) : Take any regime that violently oppresses it's people, like Nazi Germany, or Stalinist Russia; now how could you possibly overthrow that regime peacefully, when the regime will have no qualms about silencing you the moment you speak out against it? How would you protect yourself from this without violence?

The only way to defend yourself against an enemy who will kill you without hesitation is to fight back with as little hesitation, or run and hide. If you do the latter, you can't really overthrow the regime.


This. Hero and Villain, right and wrong, good and evil, all these terms are meaningless and determined entirely through perspective.



I know, i don't know what i'd do in a situation like his. I respect what he did by standing up for his beliefs but i disagree with a lot of the way he's gone about it. I disagree with him refusing to condemn mugabes actions too, that's inexcuseable
#24
he embraced the ideas of passive resistance before he realized the national party was too thick and incorrigible.. pretty much everyone sees him as a hero
you told him to try to build bricks without straw
he asked you to build cities without bricks
#25
Didn't Ghandi beat his wife too?
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#26
Quote by Z_cup_boy
Ghandi was a pacifist who believed the Jews should commit mass suicide.

Nothnx.


In the end he isn't remembered for that belief. He should still be remembered for his pacifism, everyone has a puitfall and noone has been or is perfect. He also never acted on it. He accomplished something amazing and worthy of rememberance, don't take that away from him.
Due what you want as long as you vote Due!
#28
Yes but all of a person's actions should be rationalized, you can't just ignore other facts about Gandhi.
#29
Quote by antianti99
^
Did u mean to quote the wife beater comment ?


No, I meant to quote the one I quoted, also on the topic of Ghandi exchanging letter to Hitler. He was only playing politics. Hitler and Ghandi shared an enemy, the British Empire. It makes sense for him to communicate with Hitler, also considering the fact that the Aryan race wound up in India. It also makes sense for Ghandi to be antisemetic, there is alot of tension between the Jews and Hindus.

Quote by Z_cup_boy
Yes but all of a person's actions should be rationalized, you can't just ignore other facts about Gandhi.


Yeah, their actions, but he didn't act against the Jews at all. Ghandi was extremely important and deserves the praise he gets. He led a peaceful protest for Indian freedom, that's one hell of a feat. He was also just the result of his surroundings, his beliefs weren't extreme for the culture he was in. If he had been American, he'd have been a relatively bad person.
Due what you want as long as you vote Due!
Last edited by tayroar at Jun 29, 2009,
#30
Quote by tayroar
No, I meant to quote the one I quoted, also on the topic of Ghandi exchanging letter to Hitler. He was only playing politics. Hitler and Ghandi shared an enemy, the British Empire. It makes sense for him to communicate with Hitler, also considering the fact that the Aryan race wound up in India. It also makes sense for Ghandi to be antisemetic, there is alot of tension between the Jews and Hindus.



Some peace activist eh?

A racist peace activist. A bit of an oxymoron.
#31
Quote by Z_cup_boy
Some peace activist eh?

A racist peace activist. A bit of an oxymoron.


Not really, racism doesn't mean you advocate violence, it just means you have the belief you are better than others.
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#32
Young Conservatives in the UK used to go around wearing T-shirts sporting the slogan "Hang Mandela". Thatcher's government considered him a terrorist. Bear that in mind next time you vote for the Tories.
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#34
I will say that he is a terrorist. Doing good doesn't outweigh killing people. His wife was bad enough, having invented the flaming Tyre necklace is not good.

And to be honest, ZA is not as good a place as it was under the White Government. Then, black people had jobs, however boring or menial they were, but at least they were employed, crime was low-ish, and the South African economy was good. Nowadays, crime has gone through the roof, the rape statistics in ZA are one of, if not the highest in the world, and the political situation there, is incredibly corrupt, and if you ask me, Jacob Zuma is going to make things worse.
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