#1
Hey all,

I managed to get a save up enough and get a Lefty Gibson SG today. I dont know if pictures are required as I've seen a tonne of them floating around .

Now my question is about the nitrocellulose lacquer finish thats with it. I know eventually the finish will start aging and losing its "new" appeal, but I do want to hang onto it as long as I can. I managed to buy Gibson polish for the guitar. I heard stories regarding certain straps messing up the finish or "burning in", and I heard these were mainly leather straps. I just want to make sure, is there certain material straps advised to use with the nitrocellulose lacquer finish so theres no trouble. Do i take the strap off after each play? Just need some nudging to keep that spanking new guitar..spanking new .

Edit: Now with PICS!










Last edited by Azaril000 at Jun 30, 2009,
#2
i take my straps off after im finished playing but i dont have a gibson... i would take them off anyway
#4
i heard a similar rumour only it was the cliplok straps like dimarzio and a few others produce.

dont go ott with the polish, and wipe it down after each session, wash your hands before playing and you shouldn`t have any major problems with the finishes.
#5
Not only should you remove the strap after playing, the guitar should then be put in a hardshell case! Don't store it on a stand, there's countless posts of people who've accidentally knocked their guitars off the stands and broken the neck/headstock!
Moving on.....
#6
Quote by KenG
Not only should you remove the strap after playing, the guitar should then be put in a hardshell case! Don't store it on a stand, there's countless posts of people who've accidentally knocked their guitars off the stands and broken the neck/headstock!



I'm probably going to regret saying this after I've done the same thing but those people are careless if they knock their guitars off the stands and don't have the reflexes to catch it.
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#7
i've never heard of taking your strap off after your done playing. what's the reasoning behind it ?
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#8
Vinyl plastics react with nitro finishes, that's what you need to watch out for. Some faux-leather straps are made with a vinyl backing and some straps have vinyl-based ends. Also I wouldn't use that polish, if you pick up any dirt in the rag while you're polishing your beloved guitar it will turn into very fine sandpaper and leave light circular scatches on the guitar.
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#9
Flux'd beat me. Vinyl and nitro do not mix. Certain guitar stands actually have vinyl padding, which "burns" the finish that it touches, too.
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#10
Quote by KenG
Not only should you remove the strap after playing, the guitar should then be put in a hardshell case! Don't store it on a stand, there's countless posts of people who've accidentally knocked their guitars off the stands and broken the neck/headstock!


The only thing I disagree with here is that it's a NEW guitar. With a Nitro finish you should keep it out of the case for a couple months so the Nitro can cure. If not you will be posting a thread on how to get rid of a sticky neck. Nitro takes months to cure and your new guitar was probably pulled off the drying rack and thrown in a case. So give it time to breathe and cure. Before it sits in a case full-time.

Also yes watch the vinyl-backed straps and remove them when you are done playing.


And Just because I like New guitar pron.

If you start a reply with: I have never played one but I have heard good things about it! Your opinion is invalid.
#11
Bull****! The finish is buffed out and hardened during the polishing stage after finishing. It also was stored after manufacture and shipped in a case. Sorry but I really disgaree that laquer takes months to harden. MAybe if you're doing this at home but I doubt you have a major sized buffing wheel!

EDIT: I see you have a Les Paul...if your's is sticky,it'sprobably your natural oils that you're not cleaning off.
Moving on.....
Last edited by KenG at Jun 29, 2009,
#12
Quote by Pac_man0123



EDIT: Pics or it's a Devries custom



This
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#13
Use only the smallest amount of polish. Put it on an inkless microfibre cloth and use the softest motion possible to just lift off dust and etc. Anything more than the lightest touch and you'll just start lifting the finish off.

Keep the guitar in it's hardcase whenever you're not using it.

You can use leather straps, just don't let coated leather touch the finish since some of the coatings will leave perminant stains on the guitar. Basically most leather straps have a coated outside (smooth) and the inside of the strap is often rough, raw leather. It's fine for that rough side to touch the guitar, not the smooth side because it might have one of the coatings that will mess up the finish and it's nearly impossible to tell what straps have it or not, so best thing is to just nto let the outside of any leather strap touch it.

Don't put the guitar on a stand either since the rubber and sponge protectors on most standards also have coatings that will stain the finish.


Be aware that no matter how well you take care of it, within ~2 years the finish will be cracked and will have started to fade. It's not possible to keep a nitro finish looking new for more than a year or two, realistically, at least not if you want to play the thing. You could always seal it away an airtight display case...
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#14
Taken from Guitar player Magazine Sept of 04.

On a molecular level, nitrocellulose lacquer can take years to fully crystallize. The process of crystallization—commonly known as curing—contributes significantly to improvements in a guitar’s volume, clarity, and harmonic range. Where lacquer takes years to fully cure, catalyzed finishes such as polyester and urethane harden, and fully crystallize, in a matter of days. Though all finishes have some damping effect on acoustic soundboards, it is not true that all guitar tops would benefit from being left unfinished. Finish makes up a significant portion of a soundboard’s mass (the principal measure of inertia) relative to its volume (the amount of space occupied—not the kind measured in decibels). To the extent that mass plays an important role in tone production, the portion of mass contributed by finish is critical. Manipulation of finish mass—along with top graduation, brace layout, and brace shaping—contributes to the mechanical design by which a luthier’s unique tonal signature is defined. Within reasonable parameters, the important thing is not how heavy, how thick, or how hard a finish is, but how it incorporates into an integrated soundboard design. The reason I switched to catalyzed finishes was because relatively inert substances are inherently more controllable than substances whose properties are constantly changing.


Here's the full article

Boxedit: No I don't have a sticky neck problem. Yes I clean it regularly. I bought the Gibson Brand new in 1997. And have never had a problem with it.

Go to the Les Paul forum and look for yourself. Sticky neck is a common problem with un-cured finishes. There are guys who have bought 70's Les Pauls. That had sticky necks. Why because they never had time to breathe out of the case. Leave the guitar out of the case for a month or two. Bam Problem cured.
If you start a reply with: I have never played one but I have heard good things about it! Your opinion is invalid.
Last edited by boxcarmonument at Jun 29, 2009,
#15
Quote by boxcarmonument
Taken from Guitar player Magazine Sept of 04.

On a molecular level, nitrocellulose lacquer can take years to fully crystallize. The process of crystallization—commonly known as curing—contributes significantly to improvements in a guitar’s volume, clarity, and harmonic range. Where lacquer takes years to fully cure, catalyzed finishes such as polyester and urethane harden, and fully crystallize, in a matter of days. Though all finishes have some damping effect on acoustic soundboards, it is not true that all guitar tops would benefit from being left unfinished. Finish makes up a significant portion of a soundboard’s mass (the principal measure of inertia) relative to its volume (the amount of space occupied—not the kind measured in decibels). To the extent that mass plays an important role in tone production, the portion of mass contributed by finish is critical. Manipulation of finish mass—along with top graduation, brace layout, and brace shaping—contributes to the mechanical design by which a luthier’s unique tonal signature is defined. Within reasonable parameters, the important thing is not how heavy, how thick, or how hard a finish is, but how it incorporates into an integrated soundboard design. The reason I switched to catalyzed finishes was because relatively inert substances are inherently more controllable than substances whose properties are constantly changing.


Here's the full article

Boxedit: No I don't have a sticky neck problem. Yes I clean it regularly. I bought the Gibson Brand new in 1997. And have never had a problem with it.

Go to the Les Paul forum and look for yourself. Sticky neck is a common problem with un-cured finishes. There are guys who have bought 70's Les Pauls. That had sticky necks. Why because they never had time to breathe out of the case. Leave the guitar out of the case for a month or two. Bam Problem cured.


Molecular level means below detection normally and shouldn't be confused with soft or not dry. When laquer is fully cured it often checks (cracks). I think GP is referring to the fact that laquer, much like other curables (concrete, rubber etc) never really stop curing or have a long cure period. Laquer is thinned and applied in light spray coats so that it can dry and harden enough for buffing. Maybe in the 70's they didn't do such a good job of this.
Moving on.....
#16
Quote by boxcarmonument


Go to the Les Paul forum and look for yourself. Sticky neck is a common problem with un-cured finishes. There are guys who have bought 70's Les Pauls. That had sticky necks. Why because they never had time to breathe out of the case. Leave the guitar out of the case for a month or two. Bam Problem cured.


Pun intended?
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#17
^


If you're worried about vinyls just avoid leather straps altogether. Find a heavy canvas or military webbing style strap and call it good haha, I have one of those Levy's Worn straps and have no problems with it, except the metal badge on the strapend.

Also I don't believe nitro cracks when it cures. My ML doesn't have any cracks in the finish and the '68 Cortez sitting across from me atm doesn't have any cracks either. That Cortez is the heaviest guitar I've EVER played! Just sayin'
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[thread="1166208"]Gibsons Historic Designs[/thread]
Last edited by Flux'D at Jun 30, 2009,
#18
Quote by Flux'D
^


If you're worried about vinyls just avoid leather straps altogether. Find a heavy canvas or military webbing style strap and call it good haha, I have one of those Levy's Worn straps and have no problems with it, except the metal badge on the strapend.

Also I don't believe nitro cracks when it cures. My ML doesn't have any cracks in the finish and the '68 Cortez sitting across from me atm doesn't have any cracks either. That Cortez is the heaviest guitar I've EVER played! Just sayin' :p:



I'm not saying nitro will always crack but checking/cracking with aging has been documented and I've seen several examples on older guitars. Two, specifically a Black Les Paul Custom from the late 60's/ early 70's in a Dan Elrlewine's Mod Squad article and an even older Gold Top Les Paul where it was actually flaking. A lot of slow cure materials breakdown at the end of their lifetime. From my original two examples.... rubber disintegrates & concrete becomes easily breakable.
Another factor is undoubtably care, if you use a good polish on your guitar it may help retain the solvents in the laquer better over the years vs someone who may allow more exposure to sunlight, grime & sweat wihtout periodic cleaning/polishing.
Moving on.....
#19
Quote by Pac_man0123
Well unless your strap rubs on the guitar while you're not wearing it, you should be fine.


EDIT: Pics or it's a Devries custom

i like how you think, sir.
Quote by pedromiles101
you're not gonna want to take a dump in a gross, off-colored, vintage toilet. you want something that is white and pearly; something that shines. something that you can put your cheeks against and say, "f*** yeah"
#20
Pics are ALWAYS required
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#21
Quote by CullenT
Pics are ALWAYS required

+1

cause then we know you aren't lying. because without pics, TS, we will all assume it is the "amazing and cheaper" DeVries Custom guitar. Rhythm and Jump. Dancing Close To You.
Quote by pedromiles101
you're not gonna want to take a dump in a gross, off-colored, vintage toilet. you want something that is white and pearly; something that shines. something that you can put your cheeks against and say, "f*** yeah"
#22
Quote by KenG
I'm not saying nitro will always crack but checking/cracking with aging has been documented and I've seen several examples on older guitars. Two, specifically a Black Les Paul Custom from the late 60's/ early 70's in a Dan Elrlewine's Mod Squad article and an even older Gold Top Les Paul where it was actually flaking. A lot of slow cure materials breakdown at the end of their lifetime. From my original two examples.... rubber disintegrates & concrete becomes easily breakable.
Another factor is undoubtably care, if you use a good polish on your guitar it may help retain the solvents in the laquer better over the years vs someone who may allow more exposure to sunlight, grime & sweat wihtout periodic cleaning/polishing.



Haha, I wasn't saying that they never crack/check. It just depends on how the guitar was handled and kept over it's life like you said. I've got a 60's Kay Archtop that's checked like no other and an older Gibson flattop without bracing that's got a spiderweb on the backside
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[thread="1166208"]Gibsons Historic Designs[/thread]
#23
Quote by randomhero93
+1

cause then we know you aren't lying. because without pics, TS, we will all assume it is the "amazing and cheaper" DeVries Custom guitar. Rhythm and Jump. Dancing Close To You.

WTF is this DeVries Custom and why is it so funny to all of you?
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#24
Quote by guitar99099
WTF is this DeVries Custom and why is it so funny to all of you?

this is why https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1111504
oh, and you must watch all the parts from the video in that thread.
Quote by pedromiles101
you're not gonna want to take a dump in a gross, off-colored, vintage toilet. you want something that is white and pearly; something that shines. something that you can put your cheeks against and say, "f*** yeah"
Last edited by randomhero93 at Jun 30, 2009,
#25
I've had my Esp for awhile now, and it shows no wear on the nitrocellulose finish.
I keep it in its case after playing, and take the strap off it.
I would think it would take years for noticeable difference, unless its put on a rubber stand which (I think) eats away the finish.

Oh, and pics
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#27
Quote by Azaril000
Bump! Now with added pics! Refer to original post

alright! HNGD. beautiful... idk why but I think all SG's look better lefty for some reason.
Quote by pedromiles101
you're not gonna want to take a dump in a gross, off-colored, vintage toilet. you want something that is white and pearly; something that shines. something that you can put your cheeks against and say, "f*** yeah"
#28
WOW that looks nice! i love it.

about the strap, as long as you're not leaving the strap on when you put it in the case you should be fine. just get on ebay and check out some old gutars. most of them still look great, just rub it down with a rag after each play and take care of the fretboard
#29
Hercules Stands are safe for Nitro finishes, but I wouldn't trust it with my Gibson. There's also a warning at the bottom:

Quote by Herc Stands
All Hercules stands are safe for most nitrocellulose lacquer finish guitars*.

*Hercules tests for many types of nitro finish, however some guitar manufacturers change their nitro mixture often. Guitars should never be stored on a stand...always in the case.


Ha, even the guitar stand manufacterer says that you should keep it in the case!
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#31
your guitars are backwards. Other than that they look great... but backwards.... weird... are you from the southern hemisphere?
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#32
Quote by Thomme
your guitars are backwards. Other than that they look great... but backwards.... weird... are you from the southern hemisphere?

i hope you're being sarcastic... TS's a lefty...
Quote by pedromiles101
you're not gonna want to take a dump in a gross, off-colored, vintage toilet. you want something that is white and pearly; something that shines. something that you can put your cheeks against and say, "f*** yeah"
#33
Quote by ML_Guitar09
Hercules Stands are safe for Nitro finishes, but I wouldn't trust it with my Gibson. There's also a warning at the bottom:


Ha, even the guitar stand manufacterer says that you should keep it in the case!



What's the point of stands then?
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#34
Quote by LemonBurst
What's the point of stands then?

I believe the higher quality stands are nitro-safe, but just to be sure, a lot of people actually put fabric on the stands between the guitar and rubber.

Quote by randomhero93
i hope you're being sarcastic... TS's a lefty...

aren't things backwards in the souther hemisphere?
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#35
Quote by Thomme

aren't things backwards in the souther hemisphere?

no... just a lot warmer
Quote by pedromiles101
you're not gonna want to take a dump in a gross, off-colored, vintage toilet. you want something that is white and pearly; something that shines. something that you can put your cheeks against and say, "f*** yeah"
#36
Sexy, but I don't get what people dislike about the worn finish...anyway, cleaning and polishing his guitars, Carlos Santana's kept his I believe nitro finished red and blue PRS guitars looking nearly new IMO for a few decades. He has an entire page about it on his website I think, and even if that doesn't fill everything in, there's an email on his website that each of the three or four times I've sent a message to, Kathy Suhy(Head of his fanclub apparently), or that one time, Carlos himself, has written a response within the week, they can probably answer your questions(Or at least Carlos probably could, not sure how wise the prior is on guitars).
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#37
HNGD! If I was goning to own an SG that's the style I'd like (except for being lefty of course!)
Moving on.....