#1
I just fiddled around and I like the sound of it, does it look like any existing scale?

e-21--19-------------------------------------------------------------
B------------21--19--------------------------------------------------
G----------------------21--19--18----------------------------------
D--------------------------------------21--19--18------------------
A-----------------------------------------------------21--19---------
E--------------------------------------------------------------21-----

Some notes might be missing or added in it's a bit similar to the 5th position of the pentatonic minor but it sounds more jazzy than pentatonic so is it a scale?
#2
Guitar Pro says that all of those notes may be found in the "A Major Bebop Scale," which means that you've essentially got a run in the A major scale with an extra fat 7th in it.

EDIT: Correction
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#4
Quote by Mongoose87
Guitar Pro says that all of those notes may be found in the "A Major Bebop Scale," which means that you've essentially got a run in the A major scale with an extra fat 7th in it.

EDIT: Correction



And there's a ♭7 where?

Only a G♯ there, no G.

The bebop is intended as an easy device to play fast runs over dominant chords; I will explain;

If you play bebop in 8ths, then every downbeat will be a chord tone because of the added ♭7.


A7 chord = A, C#, E, G


A Bebop = A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G, G#, A

Thus you can start on any chord tone and descend or ascend, and you will always play chord tones on the downbeats.

'That's the purpose of bebop.

TS it's A Major.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jul 7, 2009,
#5
It contains the notes of an A major scale, but if you're playing from the C#, you'd hear it in that key. (I'm not considering harmony here)

First, let's look at what you've got there in a less confusing manner. Taking it down an octave and ordering the notes from low to high, you get two variations on a C# minor penatonic scale.

----------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
-----------------------9--11---------
----------9--11--12-------------------
-9--12-----------------------------------


That's the first part of the run (low to high), it's a C# minor pentatonic with an added b6 (or a natural minor without a 2 if you like, but I hear it more as a pentatonic)

The second part is this:

---------------------------9-------
-------------------9--12-----------
-----------9--11------------------
--11--12---------------------------
----------------------------------
---------------------------------


A C# minor pent with an added b2.

Taken together, the notes from both runs would form a C Phrygian scale, but like I said, in the context given I'm hearing it more like a minor pent with some accidentals thrown in.
#6
^^

to be an asshole.

You hear it in the context you want to hear it, or are most familiar with.

Without chords, you can't tell tonal centre exclusively (though there are special occasions based on contexts in itself)

Since the major scale is considered the base of all western music, I will always put these in major scale contexts, unless a harmony is given or special occasion.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jul 7, 2009,
#7
I disagree, a minor scale sounds like a minor scale even without chords behind it, not like a major scale starting on the 6th degree.
#8
Quote by Beserker
I disagree, a minor scale sounds like a minor scale even without chords behind it, not like a major scale starting on the 6th degree.



Thus proving my point;

You hear what your familiar with, minor Scale being the 2nd most popular used scale in the world, you heard it throughout all ur life.

A lot of people find Phyrgian, mixolydian etc. sound like the major scale (Which is why there are/were so many modes threads).

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#9
That's weird. I hear the modes like they're supposed to sound, again even without harmony. If you play straight through a mode starting on the root, it should sound like that mode...I don't really get how it couldn't, if you play it on its own. Though obviously if you play say a D dorian shape over a C maj harmony, it'll sound like C maj.

Anyway I think TS's example is unambigously minor and he was approaching it that way too, so it's a bit misleading to call it a major scale.
Last edited by Beserker at Jul 7, 2009,
#10
Quote by Beserker
That's weird. I hear the modes like they're supposed to sound, again even without harmony. If you play straight through a mode starting on the root, it should sound like that mode...I don't really get how it couldn't, if you play it on its own. Though obviously if you play say a D dorian shape over a C maj harmony, it'll sound like C maj.

Anyway I think TS's example is unambigously minor and he was approaching it that way too, so it's a bit misleading to call it a major scale.



What you do is a good thing, and I can hear them as well.

I often refer to that on this forum as "truly listening" to the notes.

Still, it doesn't take away, that it is you who sets the focus to what to measure the notes to, and not the sound.

Playing D Dorian over a C Major chord "forces" you to "measure" all the notes to the C.

When playing them without harmony, you decide the focus, and it's not really there, since the sound is not played.

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#11
Quote by xxdarrenxx
What you do is a good thing, and I can hear them as well.

I often refer to that on this forum as "truly listening" to the notes.

Still, it doesn't take away, that it is you who sets the focus to what to measure the notes to, and not the sound.

Playing D Dorian over a C Major chord "forces" you to "measure" all the notes to the C.

When playing them without harmony, you decide the focus, and it's not really there, since the sound is not played.


This.

try playing the phrygian at an even tempo a few times over, without focusing on any notes -- it'll sound major.
#12
^I just tried that and it doesn't work for me, and neither it should. There is nothing inherently special about the major scale just because it's the most common and other scales are described relative to it. I'd be just as likely to hear a phrygian scale whilst playing a major, but of course I don't. Just because other people's brains might be hard wired to preferentially hear a major scale, doesn't mean mine is.
#13
^ I understand what you're saying, and you have a point, but if someone asks if something like that is already a scale, then they obviously don't know theory well enough to really talk about stuff like that. It's better to explain it the way darren did because otherwise it would cause a lot of confusion and would probably lead to them having all the misconceptions about modes that we have to deal with around here.


with most people if you play any of the modes ambiguously, no harmony or emphasis on certain notes, it will sound either major or minor
Last edited by The4thHorsemen at Jul 8, 2009,
#14
^Well the discussion deviated from the original question quite a bit heh, but I really do think it's less confusing to describe what he posted as a minor scale, because that is how he was approaching it himself, and after all the run is rooted in a C# and not an A. If I was totally new to this stuff and had been messing around with some licks in C# minor, I'd be confused if someone came along and said "no, it's really A major".
#15
There is nothing inherently special about the major scale just because it's the most common and other scales are described relative


That's not really true. The major scale possesses certain characteristics that facilitate a stronger resolution that its relative scale (a leading tone being the most noteworthy). The reason the major scale is the basis of Western tonal music and phrygian isn't is not arbitrary.
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#16
Quote by Archeo Avis
That's not really true. The major scale possesses certain characteristics that facilitate a stronger resolution that its relative scale (a leading tone being the most noteworthy). The reason the major scale is the basis of Western tonal music and phrygian isn't is not arbitrary.

Absolutely, I'm not saying that it is. I don't fully understand why, but I can see that the major scale is more stable than its modes. I was just disagreeing with what ShoeFactory said. Also, theoretically there would be nothing to stop you from organising your concept of theory around a different scale, as George Russell did with his Lydian Chromatic Concept, arguing that lydian sounds more 'major' than major. I don't pretend to understand LCC any more than that though, it's not something I've looked into.