#1
I've been readin' around I'm confused about this diminished 7th chord. Apparently the formula for it is 1-b3-b5-bb7.

So from what I've learned is a diminished chord is a minor chord with a flattened 5th. (1-b3-b5). Since it's not a major 7th, the 7th is also flattened (b7). Adding those together I'm thinking it should be (1-b3-b5-b7) for a diminished 7th but I'm not sure where the double flat is comming from.
#2
1-b3-b5-b7 = half diminished
1-b3-b5-bb7 = full diminished

not sure why, but thats just how it goes.
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Although i guess the OP will have to get used to reading them if he's going to buy a bugera..
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#3
I think diminished are actually chords which consist of stacked minor 3rds, a minor 3rd above a b5 is a bb7.
#5
Hmm that makes sense.

What would be the notes for a Diminished 9th? I'm thinking (1-b3-b5-bb7-b9)?

That also lead me to thinking, is there such thing as a Diminished Major 9th like (1-b3-b5-b7-b9)?
#6
No. A 9th is always major unless noted otherwise.

So a diminished 9th Cᴼ9 would be a diminished seventh with a major ninth, 1 ♭3 ♭5 ♭♭7 9

A half diminished seventh with a ninth is a half diminished ninth 1 1 ♭3 ♭5 ♭7 9. This would be a half diminished ninth (C∅9) or a minor ninth flat five (Cm9♭5)
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Jul 8, 2009,
#7
Quote by Zvahl
Hmm that makes sense.

What would be the notes for a Diminished 9th? I'm thinking (1-b3-b5-bb7-b9)?

That also lead me to thinking, is there such thing as a Diminished Major 9th like (1-b3-b5-b7-b9)?



If it can be played, it exists.

Whether it sounds "nice" is something different.

half diminished are also called m7♭5 (m7 because of the m3 and m7 intervals).

So your chord would be (if C) Cm7♭5♭9

Stylistically in Jazz, the 5th and 9th alterations are mostly put on top of Dominant chords; 1, 3, 5, ♭7

C7♭5♭9 = 1, 3, ♭5, ♭7, ♭9

Is more common.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jul 8, 2009,
#8
Quote by 20Tigers
No. A 9th is always major unless noted otherwise.
Why?

Edit: Thanks Darren
Last edited by zhilla at Jul 8, 2009,
#9
Quote by zhilla
Why?



It is how it is..

It actually has to do with how chords are built.

Cm9 always mean Cm with a major 9th

If you want to indicate a minor 9th (minor 2nd), you'd call it Cmb9.


The same goes for 6th chords.

Cm6 always means Cm with a major 6th.

If indicating a minor 6th, you'd call it Cmb6

A minor 6th is the same note at an augmented 5th, and #5 chords are used more in jazz, since jazz generally see 5ths as useless, thus they spice em up.

Imo (from a jazz perspective) why have a 5th and a added #5 since a 5th has no "real" harmonic value.

Those are part of the altered chord series which contain, any combination or just 1 from the following intervals; b9, #9, b5, #5.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jul 8, 2009,
#10
Quote by zhilla
Why?

Edit: Thanks Darren



NP I added a bit more to the post, cause the same goes for 6th chords.

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#11
Quote by zhilla
Why?


The triads and sevenths are constructed by stacking major and minor thirds.

The extensions and add chords are just adding major scale degree intervals. They are always assumed Major unless specifically stated. It's just the way it is

The C6 for example is a C major with an added major sixth

A Cm6 is a C minor with an added Major sixth. - A common mistake is to add a minor sixth to the minor triad but this would be an error. The name for a Cm with an added minor sixth is Cm(♭6) or just Cm♭6.

EDIT: HAha you beat me to it. PS did you see my use of the half diminished and diminished seventh symbols?
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Jul 8, 2009,
#12
Quote by 20Tigers
The triads and sevenths are constructed by stacking major and minor thirds.

The extensions and add chords are just always assumed Major unless specifically stated. It's just the way it is

The C6 for example is a C major with an added major sixth

A Cm6 is a C minor with an added Major sixth. - A common mistake is to add a minor sixth to the minor triad but this would be an error. The name for a Cm with an added minor sixth is Cm(♭6) or just Cm♭6.


It also makes sense from a notating perspective too.

If 6 was 'nothing' (neutral), you'd notate cmM6, or get confused with cmm6 or some bollocks like that

EDIT:

Grrr, yes I have forgotten too use em in my post #)(&%@(&%

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#14
Quote by xxdarrenxx

EDIT:

Grrr, yes I have forgotten too use em in my post #)(&%@(&%
It can be a bit of pain in the ass. I wish there was a button on my keyboard. I can probably assign one create a macro or something - if I knew how. I might look it up oneday.
Si