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#1
ever notice how weird things get the more objectively you look at them?
for instance, if you look at it completely objectively, then all of existance is pretty much without value. nothing in itself has value, it can only subjectively be given value.
or objectively, the Backstreet Boys were actually talented musicians!

but seriously, objectively, is it possible to give anything value? doesn't the aspect of looking at something "objectively" automatically remove any kind of possible judgement, as any and all judgements are equal, in that they are meaningless?

discuss.
#2
There was a massive thread on Objectivism yesterday, by the way.

[IN PHIL WE TRUST]


Quote by Trowzaa
I only play bots. Bots never abandon me. (´・ω・`)

#3
if u enjoy something, it now has meaning.
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#4
You ever say a word a lot and it doesn't sound like a word anymore?
the ladies love when i gyrate my ass in front of a graveyard
#6
I suspect drugs. (seriously)
grok it.

SKREAM!

Listen to jazz, it's good for you...
#7
That hurt my head.. and i don't mean the one on my shoulders :S
@dbostwick
#8
Something can objectively have value given a context.

"Wheels" have no objective value, but put in the context of a car are objectively pretty dang important.
#9
Quote by SteveHouse
There was a massive thread on Objectivism yesterday, by the way.

goddammit!

EDIT: I cant find it, if you have a link I'll delete this.
Last edited by CoreysMonster at Jul 14, 2009,
#10
Objectively how can you prove anything? How can you trust your senses which are not mind-indpendent and therefore not objective?

"Wheels" have no objective value, but put in the context of a car are objectively pretty dang important
What gives a car or car journey importance?
.
Last edited by Nietsche at Jul 14, 2009,
#11
Quote by CoreysMonster
goddammit!

*searches and deletes own thread if found*

It's actually about Atlas Shrugged, but naturally that's where it ended up.

[IN PHIL WE TRUST]


Quote by Trowzaa
I only play bots. Bots never abandon me. (´・ω・`)

#13
Quote by SteveHouse
It's actually about Atlas Shrugged, but naturally that's where it ended up.

meh, but nobody would know unless they read through. I'll just leave this up, better to have it's own thread anyway than to continue a thread-jacking
#14
@ TS... I get what you're saying... and you more or less said everything I had to say on the subject.
"... and on either side of the river was the tree of life, with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of this tree were for the healing of nations.
#16
Quote by WyldChylde
You ever say a word a lot and it doesn't sound like a word anymore?


All the time.
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#17
Quote by Nietsche
What gives a car or car journey importance?

As I say, in context. There is a goal: to move. Wheels are a required component to fulfill this objective.

Though I suppose you can argue such a goal does not exist unless attributed to the context by somebody.
#18
What about the guitar?
life means something doesent it?

those are not meaningless
Turtles R awesome. dont agree? YOU GO TO HELL, YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE!


PSN: Purple-munky

Gear...
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Cort KX1Q - i smashed it
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#19
Quote by vinnie-watt5
What about the guitar?
life means something doesent it?

those are not meaningless

To you they are not, but that is subjective. Your guitar has no value to me, does it? Except for financially I suppose, but that is a value subjectively applied by society.
#20
Quote by MadClownDisease
As I say, in context. There is a goal: to move. Wheels are a required component to fulfill this objective
But why do they need to move? what is the value in moving? I could go on and on like this until eventually you start to get it but It's probably best we don't.

Though I suppose you can argue such a goal does not exist unless attributed to the context by somebody.
I could argue that value is subjective
.
#21
Quote by Nietsche
But why do they need to move? what is the value in moving? I could go on and on like this until eventually you start to get it but It's probably best we don't.

I could argue that value is subjective

They move because they have a goal which they feel is important. But whatever there goal is, if looked at objectively it has no value.
grok it.

SKREAM!

Listen to jazz, it's good for you...
#22
Quote by Nietsche
But why do they need to move? what is the value in moving? I could go on and on like this until eventually you start to get it but It's probably best we don't.

I could argue that value is subjective


i think there's a "z" in Nietzsche somewhere...
"... and on either side of the river was the tree of life, with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of this tree were for the healing of nations.
#23
Quote by magnus_maximus
F*ck subjectivism and objectivism. F*ck Utilitarianism and Kantianism. F*ck religion and higher authority. The only morals I care about are the ones which ensure my seed gets passed on and that my children are happy and healthy in a world similar to the one I left behind, but marginally better.
I'm an existentialist so your worldview is perfectly acceptable to me
Quote by konfyouzed
i think there's a "z" in Nietzsche somewhere...
I think you spelt 'confused' totally wrong
.
Last edited by Nietsche at Jul 14, 2009,
#24
So there is nothing called value. Just objectivism because everybody cant just mind their own busy and ignore whatever it is but no they have to complain. \

Is that the point of the thread?
Turtles R awesome. dont agree? YOU GO TO HELL, YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE!


PSN: Purple-munky

Gear...
Ion - acoustic guitar.
Cort KX1Q - i smashed it
Fender Super Champ XD 15w
Stagg G-310 - i smashed it.
#25
Quote by Nietsche
I'm an existentialist so your worldview is perfectly acceptable to me

Pfft, existentialists think they're so trendy. Nihilism is where it's at man.
#26
Quote by CoreysMonster
ever notice how weird things get the more objectively you look at them?
for instance, if you look at it completely objectively, then all of existance is pretty much without value. nothing in itself has value, it can only subjectively be given value.
or objectively, the Backstreet Boys were actually talented musicians!

but seriously, objectively, is it possible to give anything value? doesn't the aspect of looking at something "objectively" automatically remove any kind of possible judgement, as any and all judgements are equal, in that they are meaningless?

discuss.
Are all things with out benefit? Without convenience?

I believe there is a line between purely subjective and pragmatically valuable.
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#27
@ Nietsche: touche
"... and on either side of the river was the tree of life, with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of this tree were for the healing of nations.
#28
Quote by RU Experienced?
Pfft, existentialists think they're so trendy. Nihilism is where it's at man.
Yeah right. Nihlism is like so 5 seconds ago. Everyone knows post-modernism is where it's at
.
#29
Quote by RU Experienced?
Pfft, existentialists think they're so trendy. Nihilism is where it's at man.


...?

trendy? man... i need to get out from underneath my rock from time to time apparently.
"... and on either side of the river was the tree of life, with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of this tree were for the healing of nations.
#30
Quote by Nietsche
But why do they need to move? what is the value in moving? I could go on and on like this until eventually you start to get it but It's probably best we don't.

The goal is to move, as i said. And then as I also said, yes you can argue that such a goal only exists when subjectively applied, but within that wheels have a required objective value.
Please don't get high and mighty assuming you "get" something I do not, I am questioning here.

You can't even think objectively without a purpose or context. It's like my step-brother always gets pedantic when people say "i need to..." whatever because he says "no, you want to", but for the previously established goal, yes they do indeed NEED to.

I could argue that value is subjective

I don't understand at all what point you are trying to make here.
I hope you realise I was presenting that as a counter-argument to my own statement.
#32
Quote by Nietsche
Yeah right. Nihlism is like so 5 seconds ago. Everyone knows post-modernism is where it's at

In your dreams sweet heart, it's all about neo-conventionalism now.
#33
Value is overrated. Value is something we came up with, our own ego's, our own urges and desires to survive.

So, forcing yourself to think 'objectively' is a paradox, and is USELESS as far as im concerned because all I care about is indulging in various forms of stimulation, i.e orgasms, eccentricity, cigarettes, alcohol and laughter.
#34
What's that, like survivalism or what?
You make your own morality basically. It's a little more compex than that but I'm hungry and pizza awaits
Quote by MadClownDisease
The goal is to move, as i said. And then as I also said, yes you can argue that such a goal only exists when subjectively applied, but within that wheels have a required objective value.
But what would be the subjective value of moving? What gives any objective value to the goal you are trying to acheive? What is the point in total objectivity if you start from subjective conclusions?
You can't even think objectively without a purpose or context. It's like my step-brother always gets pedantic when people say "i need to..." whatever because he says "no, you want to", but for the previously established goal, yes they do indeed NEED to
But the goal has no objective value
.
#36
Quote by RU Experienced?
In your dreams sweet heart, it's all about neo-conventionalism now.

You guys are all behind, well actually you don't exist because I'm a solipsist.
grok it.

SKREAM!

Listen to jazz, it's good for you...
#38
Quote by DorkusMalorkus
It is also known as post-postmodernism, and hyperrealism, because three names is cooler than one.

Also, solipsism doesn't exist.

I choose to be a solipsist so you don't exist.
grok it.

SKREAM!

Listen to jazz, it's good for you...
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