#1
Hey everyone, I have a question about substitute arpeggios and I am looking for some guidance. I know this is pretty commonly used in jazz, but I wanted to apply it to a sweeps in a rock progression to spice up the sound. So the progression is: Em, D, Em, G (Yeah not much to it) and I was going for C maj, B min, A min, G maj arpeggios over each respective chord. I am not very great at figuring out what chord sounds those would produce when played together, or if there would be a better alternative. Regardless, thanks!

Sawyer
#2
okay..whoa..what key are you in?

the substitutions are good in jazz because they feature modes and scales which easily go into other modes and scales, these are just arpeggios, broken chords.

lets take a look at what key you're in, you're in G major, one sharp.
so lets fix things, you have Em D Em G, lets make that into something nicer like... Em B
D G, so that D can cadence into G, i added the III chord for a little flavor i guess.

i would make the first sweep an Emm7.
and then the rest are sweeped chords that follow the progression.

it sounds a little better riiiiight?
Member #40 of the Steve Irwin Memorial Club, pm Clincher09 to join.
Last edited by nivlarama at Jul 16, 2009,
#3
Em with C maj arp = E G B C E G = E G B C = Em(♭6)

D with Bm arp = D A F♯ B D F♯ = D A F♯ B = D6

Em with Am arp = E G B A C E = E G A B C = Em(♭6)add11

G maj with G maj arp = G maj

If that's what you're asking.
Si
#4
Yeah its E minor. Well I can't do much to change the progression, since it is an established song, that I am to put lead over. But I do agree with the lack of resolution. But the C maj arpeggio wouldn't be good to lead off with?
#5
Well yeah after working those out for a while, I figured that out. Is that the way to go?
#6
Quote by hildesaw
Yeah its E minor. Well I can't do much to change the progression, since it is an established song, that I am to put lead over. But I do agree with the lack of resolution. But the C maj arpeggio wouldn't be good to lead off with?



no, where is there a c chord in that progression?
Member #40 of the Steve Irwin Memorial Club, pm Clincher09 to join.
#7
Thats why its a substitution, E over E etc sounds too bland to me. Thats what I started out with, but I was sick of hearing it done so many times
Last edited by hildesaw at Jul 16, 2009,
#8
Straight-up substitutions don't often "work" in rock because rock tends to be too diatonic. Given that progression, most attempts to really play too far out of key will sound either contrived or just flat-out "wrong", at least until later on, when you REALLY know what you're doing.

For now, stick to extensions, also referred to as superimposed triads. The idea is, you're still gonna use triads, just not with the same root. Kinda like what you're doing, but your choices are gonna be based on the extended tones of the chords you're using. For the Em chord, you can essentially turn it into an Em9 chord by playing a Bm arpeggio over it. The D and the F# in it serve as the 7th and 9th of the Em chord, so by superimposing those notes over it, you're adding those extended tones. Remember, any notes you play over a chord that aren't passing tones(and some that are) affect the harmony of the chord.

20Tigers has given you the breakdown of what the superimposed arpeggios you chose do to the chords they were played over.
#9
screw diatonica, a couple cool ones my harmony lecturer told me about and use are say a chord is c maj7 you play d major7 arp which ends up being 9, #11, 13 and b9 which remains pretty consonant watch out for the b9 though, another one is to say play on a c m7 chord play a Gb maj9 (gb, ab, bb, g) which is #11, b13, b7, nat11 it sound pritty far out but still works in most situations

by the way i invented "diatonica"
Originally Posted by jmac72187
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#10
Quote by Archeo Avis 2
screw diatonica...

by the way i invented "diatonica"


"diatonica" is spanish for diatonic.
*reported*... twice in one reply!


OH NOES!!! Theowy is scawY!!!
#11
Quote by grampastumpy
Straight-up substitutions don't often "work" in rock because rock tends to be too diatonic. Given that progression, most attempts to really play too far out of key will sound either contrived or just flat-out "wrong", at least until later on, when you REALLY know what you're doing.

For now, stick to extensions, also referred to as superimposed triads. The idea is, you're still gonna use triads, just not with the same root. Kinda like what you're doing, but your choices are gonna be based on the extended tones of the chords you're using. For the Em chord, you can essentially turn it into an Em9 chord by playing a Bm arpeggio over it. The D and the F# in it serve as the 7th and 9th of the Em chord, so by superimposing those notes over it, you're adding those extended tones. Remember, any notes you play over a chord that aren't passing tones(and some that are) affect the harmony of the chord.

20Tigers has given you the breakdown of what the superimposed arpeggios you chose do to the chords they were played over.


My arpeggios are in key, and I chose them because they contain notes of the chord. (i.e. Em = E,G,B C maj = C,E,G and so on. I wasn't trying to do blind substitutions!
#12
Quote by hildesaw
My arpeggios are in key, and I chose them because they contain notes of the chord. (i.e. Em = E,G,B C maj = C,E,G and so on. I wasn't trying to do blind substitutions!



C over Em doesn't work that well with the b6 in there. I kinda thought you were doing it blind as well.


Try Gmaj7 over Em = Em9


Basically you need to learn the commonly accepted chord tones, and choose your arps accordingly.

Maj = R, 2(9), 3 ,5 ,6(13), 7, #11

min = R, 2(9), b3, 4(11), 5, 6(13), b7, 9

dom = R, b9, 2(9), #9 3, 5, 6(13), b7, #11, b13
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 16, 2009,
#13
Hey thanks, I appreciate it! Alright, follow up question. what if just an E5 was played, wouldn't that open up my possibilities?
#14
^^ not really, it will just make the tune sound bland with no colour tones
you are hearing me talk

CHECK OUT MY TUNES ON MY PROFILE

Gear:

laney VC30
tele/jaguar hybrid
Big muff
Small clone chorus
memory boy
Hadrwire RV-7 reverb
DD3 delay
Dunlop Crybaby wah
TS9 overdrive clone
home made tremolo
#15
Haha yeah true. Well I'm going to work all of this out, and hopefully end up with some thing that sounds good.
#16
Quote by hildesaw
Hey thanks, I appreciate it! Alright, follow up question. what if just an E5 was played, wouldn't that open up my possibilities?


certainly.... if it's on it's own

You do have to take the over all context into consideration though. So if the progression is ... E5 D5 C5.. Your pretty much locked into minor

If it was E5 A5 B5...... Major

E5 on it's own...... A whole lot of possibilities.

Quote by edwarde
^^ not really, it will just make the tune sound bland with no colour tones


Na, not really. He's talking about the possibilities of playing OVER a power chord. The answer to his question is YES.... depending on the context having an undefined chord like a power chord opens up possibilities in terms of what colors you can utilize over it.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 16, 2009,
#17
Well we are playing it as hard rock, so undoubtably it will power chords any way, which shears down a lot of the notes to deal with
#18
Quote by allislost
"diatonica" is spanish for diatonic.

Moments like this make me wish this forum had a reputation system, where you could give kudos to other members for posts containing undilluted win.
Call me Batman.