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#1
So I had this discussion yesterday with a friend about DNA being able to be modified by human influence in the future.

So..

What if science comes as far as taking out the aging gen out of humans, and make it possible for the body to 100% rejuvenate cells.

Basically this would mean that people will never die from ageing any more, but we came to something more interesting.

What would happen to religion?

If noone dies, then heaven becomes "obsolete" (no offence to any religion)

Do you think people would perform ritual killings to still "get in heaven"?

How do you think the world will cope with this?

p.s. My apologies to Megadeth fans

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#4
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#6
Eh, it's never going to happen. If you want to play the hypothetical game and pretend science could do that, I'm pretty sure it would be widely frowned upon or illegal due to too many problems, from overpopulation, to religious people crying about how much of a sin it is.
#8
Quote by xxdarrenxx



Do you think people would perform ritual killings to still "get in heaven"?




this^
#9
It is possible. We've seen other ritual killings in religions, such as the South-American cultures. It has never happened in the 'western religions', (Islam, Christianity, Judaism) but I think it is possible to happen. If such a scenario were to happen, that mankind does not age anymore; I think the number one cause of death will be suicide.


#10
Quote by Merman_of_83
Eh, it's never going to happen. If you want to play the hypothetical game and pretend science could do that, I'm pretty sure it would be widely frowned upon or illegal due to too many problems, from overpopulation, to religious people crying about how much of a sin it is.



Hence why it would start "holy wars"

The premise of "death" to the human mind doesn't really compute- and thousands of years ago it sure as hell didn't. Hence why religion was created- a way to control the masses through their natural fear. If this was possible- the religions that were going to lose their riches and control would fight the non believers.
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#12
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#13
Quote by Dwight Schrute
Hence why it would start "holy wars"

The optimistic side of me (the smaller side) would like to think the human race is more intelligent than greedy, and would keep something along the lines of this scientific discovery from being implemented.

But yes, it could very well tear all known civilizations apart...at the same time, though, I think statistics show more and more people are losing their religions as time progresses...
#16
People will still be murdered or die from accidents.
So...

And there will never be science to prevent aging.
I mean, there are studies into heavy water to reduce aging, but that's not going to prevent heart failure or frail bones.
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#18
Seriously ppl would have to take matters into their own hands by killing ppl. If no one dies the Earth's carrying capacity would be shot.
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#19

Do you think people would perform ritual killings to still "get in heaven"?



I hope so, because we need less of that kind of people.
#20
I doubt people would want to live forever, you'd get bloody bored after a few hundred years
#21
Quote by NinjaSlayHuman
Sounds pretty to me.


I didn't came in to rate in from 1 - 10 on the farfetch'd scale.

Maybe I find Religion far fetched.

Seriously, jesus walking over water, and coming back from the death?

And they say I'm high? lol

It's hypocrite to accept that religion might exist, but dismiss my idea as farfetch'd

Quote by rustymoore91
You were high right?



Nope,

In fact, researcher are already studying the phenomenon of how lizards grow back their tails, and want to replicate that in a human setting.

I believe (with this in mind) that there is a possibility to renew organs, cause ageing mostly comes from deterioration of the heart and cells.

Quote by Simsimius
People will still be murdered or die from accidents.
So...

And there will never be science to prevent aging.
I mean, there are studies into heavy water to reduce aging, but that's not going to prevent heart failure or frail bones.


You miss the point.

Murder and accidents will happen yes, but the point is, is that death wouldn't be a certain phenomenon anymore.

My hypothesis was that this might be frightening to followers of region, who basically base almost all events on the fact that everyone dies, and that they can go to heaven.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jul 17, 2009,
#23
Religion would probably continue, after all, having the treatment to turn off the aging gene would probably be optional, so not everyone would be 'immortal' and the biggest reason that many would 'opt out' would probably be because of religion.
I know that it's been mentioned that many people simply wouldn't want to live forever, but at least this process would allow people to choose when they wish to die rather than dying of natural causes before they have finished having a 'love for life', which means that it would probably be quite popular.
Of course, in order for it to be logisticaly possible in a world with limited resources, sterilisation would have to be manditory for all would-be 'immortals'.
#24
There is no evidence to support the idea of heaven.

People can still die from other causes (accidents, etc).

Other than that, deep man.
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#25
Quote by xxdarrenxx
I didn't came in to rate in from 1 - 10 on the farfetch'd scale.

Maybe I find Religion far fetched.

Seriously, jesus walking over water, and coming back from the death?

And they say I'm high? lol

It's hypocrite to accept that religion might exist, but dismiss my idea as farfetch'd



I actually just wanted to make the joke.

As it happens, I agree with you.
#26
The biggest problem is overpopulation, once the humans alive now won't die of old age anymore (what about illnesses and pandemics?) the urge to reproduce will still be built into our genetics, thus the speed of overpopulation would become shocking.

And in the beginning only the rich will be able to do it, thus creating an even bigger rift between rich and poor.

But as an answer on the question, it might become a tad more popular but I think that once this happens alot of people would become atheist or get a sort of god complex of their own


Also, yay for the Robot War!
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#27
Quote by Slicer666
The biggest problem is overpopulation, once the humans alive now won't die of old age anymore (what about illnesses and pandemics?) the urge to reproduce will still be built into our genetics, thus the speed of overpopulation would become shocking.

As I just said, logisticaly, the most feasable way to avoid this is to simply make sterilisation manditory for all would-be 'immortals', it could become a part of the 'turning off the aging gene' process.
#28
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Religion would probably continue, after all, having the treatment to turn off the aging gene would probably be optional, so not everyone would be 'immortal' and the biggest reason that many would 'opt out' would probably be because of religion.
I know that it's been mentioned that many people simply wouldn't want to live forever, but at least this process would allow people to choose when they wish to die rather than dying of natural causes before they have finished having a 'love for life', which means that it would probably be quite popular.
Of course, in order for it to be logisticaly possible in a world with limited resources, sterilisation would have to be manditory for all would-be 'immortals'.


I like this; I didn't though about the idea really, that they could of course choose to live forever or not.

And I agree on the limited resources, but that is inevitable if the world maintains an overall state of peace like it is now.

It would merely speed things up.

Quote by Slicer666
The biggest problem is overpopulation, once the humans alive now won't die of old age anymore (what about illnesses and pandemics?) the urge to reproduce will still be built into our genetics, thus the speed of overpopulation would become shocking.

And in the beginning only the rich will be able to do it, thus creating an even bigger rift between rich and poor.

But as an answer on the question, it might become a tad more popular but I think that once this happens alot of people would become atheist or get a sort of god complex of their own


Also, yay for the Robot War!


I also discussed with my friend the psychological effects.

I sometimes get the feeling, that some people do what they do in reference to "bad decisions(in politics and stuff), because they might think like; ' Oh well, I won't live forever, so it doesn't matter'.

I say this because of (for example) Fossil Fuels.

People don't care that fossil fuels are gone in a few 100 years or so, because they won't live to see it.

If (certain) people lived forever, I think they might think twice, before just thinking in terms of "their own lifetime".

Also, what if inventors like Einstein, or more realistically, someone with that kind of IQ living today would live forever. He/She would have unlimited time to invent and dismiss ideas, and technology most certainly would develop faster.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jul 17, 2009,
#29
Quote by splamron

People can still die from other causes (accidents, etc).


this
#30
Quote by xxdarrenxx
I like this; I didn't though about the idea really, that they could of course choose to live forever or not.

And I agree on the limited resources, but that is inevitable if the world maintains an overall state of peace like it is now.

It would merely speed things up.

Well the thing about making all immortals sterile is that the older you get, by the law of averages, the more likely it becomes that you will die of accidental causes, and we will still be susceptable to disease as well, after all, we are simply talking about turning off the aging gene, not making us invulnerabe to disease and injury as well, so numbers of immortals would probably still vary.

If we all became immortal and gave up having offspring for instance, it would spell the end of the human race... eventualy.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Jul 17, 2009,
#31
Discovering how to stop humans from ageing sounds like a horrible idea. It would just create so many problems. Besides, the lizard analogy doesn't work for me, because whilst lizards regenerate their tail, they don't regenerate all of their cells, they do age, they do die.

It doesn't seem plausible, because if we didn't age what would we do, grow until maturity and then stop growing? Where would we set the point we stop growing? All humans reach maturity at a slightly different age, it's impossible to stop ageing at a certain age because it won't be a fair hand out for everyone? If we could establish an age, how could scientists achieve that? What effects on our overall genetic structure would removing "ageing genes" do? Nobody could predict that. What about the armies? Countries with this technology combined with cloning could create ridiculous armies.


It's definitely not a good idea.
Last edited by Confusius at Jul 17, 2009,
#32
I imagine aging could largely be defeated through advances in gene manipulation or in nanotechnology. But it's probably years away from any of us.

I'd say if it became plausible, the procedure to become 'immortal' would be made so expensive that only a select few could afford it. Hence overpopulation problems would be avoided.
#33
Religion will still be, those stupid christians will not believe in that it'll work, they will die and end up in heaven.

And people who die in accidents and whatnot will probably also "Go to heaven."
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#35
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Well the thing about making all immortals sterile is that the older you get, by the law of averages, the more likely it becomes that you will die of accidental causes, and we will still be susceptable to disease as well, after all, we are simply talking about turning off the aging gene, not making us invulnerabe to disease and injury as well, so numbers of immortals would probably still vary.

If we all became immortal and gave up having offspring for instance, it would spell the end of the human race... eventualy.


Indeed an interesting point.

It's not fair for me to bring up this, but I feel that it might be appropriate in a way.

Technically, if we can modify DNA, it's also possible to modify genetic diseases like cancer, parkinson etc.

Though I can't exclusively say that's this the case, so it's not very fair off me to bring in this factor, but at the same time, it could make sense theoretically speaking.

Accidents I agree on.

Quote by Confusius
Discovering how to stop humans from ageing sounds like a horrible idea. It would just create so many problems. Besides, the lizard analogy doesn't work for me, because whilst lizards regenerate their tail, they don't regenerate all of their cells, they do age, they do die.

It doesn't seem plausible, because if we didn't age what would we do, grow until maturity and then stop growing? Where would we set the point we stop growing? All humans reach maturity at a slightly different age, it's impossible to stop ageing at a certain age because it won't be a fair hand out for everyone? If we could establish an age, how could scientists achieve that? What effects on our overall genetic structure would removing "ageing genes" do? Nobody could predict that. What about the armies? Countries with this technology combined with cloning could create ridiculous armies.

It's definitely not a good idea.


Well, it's probably an horrible idea, but I only wanted to discuss morally the religious affect, not the ethic morality of it.

The lizard analogy was just to show that it is possible to regenerate cells to its' original state.

That it only happens for his tail is just 1 aspect of it.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jul 17, 2009,
#36
I foresee a new age for mankind! If people live forever, why not put them onto a spaceship and colonize a few exo-planets. :P.

But, at what age will a human stop 'aging'? I mean, we can't all be a buch of babies, can we? Will we all be 21 years old (or at least looking that way)?
#37
Quote by Shadow Form
I foresee a new age for mankind! If people live forever, why not put them onto a spaceship and colonize a few exo-planets. :P.

But, at what age will a human stop 'aging'? I mean, we can't all be a buch of babies, can we? Will we all be 21 years old (or at least looking that way)?



This is indeed another interesting aspect, I didn't thought of that either.

We could make a small eco system on a space vessel, and it really is only ageing that stands in it's way.

From a pseudo (if that's the word?) point of view: We can't theoretically travel at lightspeed, so maybe this is the answer for deep space travel.

I'm glad I posted, cause some replies I really like

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#38
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Indeed an interesting point.

It's not fair for me to bring up this, but I feel that it might be appropriate in a way.

Technically, if we can modify DNA, it's also possible to modify genetic diseases like cancer, parkinson etc.

Though I can't exclusively say that's this the case, so it's not very fair off me to bring in this factor, but at the same time, it could make sense theoretically speaking.

True, but you cannot make anyone immune to viral attacks, as viruses evolve like any other life form. If we could somehow make ourselves immune to evey virus in the world today, pretty soon, many viruses would have evolved past that immunity.
#39
Quote by SlackerBabbath
True, but you cannot make anyone immune to viral attacks, as viruses evolve like any other life form. If we could somehow make ourselves immune to evey virus in the world today, pretty soon, many viruses would have evolved past that immunity.



Well from another Pseudo like view;

If we did stop ageing, chance probably has it "oh so coincidentally" that a non treatable highly contagious virus appears.

It's like an endless paradox where "nature will always finds it's way" (gotta love Jurassic park)]

..Oh wait, it's "life always find it's way". fuuuuu

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jul 17, 2009,
#40
Quote by Shadow Form
I foresee a new age for mankind! If people live forever, why not put them onto a spaceship and colonize a few exo-planets. :P.

Yeah, that's a definate advantage to creating immortals, space exploration.
Without faster than light travel, exploring the universe is very limited by how far one can travel in a normal lifespan.
Quote by Shadow Form

But, at what age will a human stop 'aging'? I mean, we can't all be a buch of babies, can we? Will we all be 21 years old (or at least looking that way)?

Idealy I suppose it would be best to stop growing at our physical peak, which is around 18-20 in males and a bit older in women.
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