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#1
When are you counted as a 'musician" and not "someone who plays guitar". I would think I am a musician, as to I know about chords, and scales and modes, and harmony and how to put all that into a song smoothly. But at waht point is it that you are a musician??
#4
There's a difference between being able to make music and being able to play notes on a guitar, and that's what makes one a musician. If you can feel the music you're making then you're a musician.
#5
Quote by pwrmax
There's a difference between being able to make music and being able to play notes on a guitar, and that's what makes one a musician. If you can feel the music you're making then you're a musician.
Yes.

To play guitar is to use your fingers to make notes and chords come out of a guitar.
To create music is to use notes and scales, chords and chord progressions, melody and harmony, consonance and dissonance, dynamics (loud and soft), rhythm, creativity, novelty, and enough knowledge of these things to allow one to not be confined by the boundaries of these things to express what can't be expressed any other way and create something that has never been created before..
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#6
Quote by food1010
Yes.

To play guitar is to use your fingers to make notes and chords come out of a guitar.
To create music is to use notes and scales, chords and chord progressions, melody and harmony, consonance and dissonance, dynamics (loud and soft), rhythm, creativity, novelty, and enough knowledge of these things to allow one to not be confined by the boundaries of these things to express what can't be expressed any other way and create something that has never been created before..


So, someone in a cover band isn't a musician? A concert flautist who doesn't compose himself isn't a musician?

I'll save everyone the trouble of of fabricating personal definitions for a word that was defined centuries ago...

Main Entry: mu·si·cian
Pronunciation: \myü-ˈzi-shən\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
: a composer, conductor, or performer of music
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#7
well then what does the dictionary say about a penis? Because whatever it says, we all know its wrong
#8
Quote by Archeo Avis
A concert flautist who doesn't compose himself isn't a musician?

No 2 flautists can play the music on a paper with musicality and sound 100% the same. The differences would be too subtle to notice but I can promise you the waveforms wouldn't be identical.

Their interpretation would be different in some way because they both feel it but since they're 2 different people they cannot feel the exact same thing.
Last edited by pwrmax at Jul 19, 2009,
#9
mu·si·cian (myōō-zĭsh'ən)
n. One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#10
Quote by Night_Warrior
well then what does the dictionary say about a penis


Three inches. Wait...penises in general?

Main Entry: pe·nis
Pronunciation: \ˈpē-nəs\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural pe·nis·es also pe·nes \ˈpē-(ˌnēz\
Etymology: Latin, penis, tail; akin to Old High German faselt penis, Greek peos
Date: 1668
: a male erectile organ of copulation by which urine and semen are discharged from the body and that develops from the same embryonic mass of tissue as the clitoris


No 2 flautists can play the music on a paper with musicality and sound 100% the same. The differences would be too subtle to notice but I can promise you the waveforms wouldn't be identical.


I liked how you added the completely undefined qualifier "with musicality", it gives your post a good "I'm right, except when I'm not, but those times don't count" vibe. Anyway, the fact that flautists sound different doesn't really have anything to do with my post.

Their interpretation would be different in some way because they both feel it but since they're 2 different people they cannot feel the exact same thing.


Feelings don't play, people do. Feelings are only one of a near limitless number of variables that influence one's playing, and the effect itself is inconsistent.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
Last edited by Archeo Avis at Jul 19, 2009,
#11
I believe a Musician is someone like Dave Mustaine, Frank Zappa etc, who play really good, compose songs, bands, etc. A little more than just the guy with a instrument.
#12
Quote by flaakmonkey
I believe a Musician is someone like Dave Mustaine, Frank Zappa etc, who play really good, compose songs, bands, etc. A little more than just the guy with a instrument.


That's subjective. A musician is someone who plays music. That is the word's definition. There is no debate here. The only real debate possible is whether that person plays music professionally or not, as some definitions state.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#13
Quote by flaakmonkey
who play really good, compose songs, bands, etc.

Beginners that can make music playing simple songs but don't know enough to write and only play in their bedroom don't count?
#14
Quote by Archeo Avis
So, someone in a cover band isn't a musician? A concert flautist who doesn't compose himself isn't a musician?
Regarding cover bands: If a band plays a song exactly like the original, no they aren't musicians, but they are performing music. If the band uses even the slightest bit of artistic license or even understanding of the emotion or message of the music, yes, they are musicians making music.

Regarding those who play notes written on a piece of music in front of them: It depends. If the performer's eye sees the musical staff, recognizes the position of a note as a specific fingering, motion, or vibration he or she must make, and then performs the given fingering, motion, or vibration at the correct time for the correct duration at the correct volume and with the correct tone, this performer is not necessarily a musician. If the performer understands why the performance is music, why the vibrations his or her mind is interpreting sound pleasant, rude, soothing, intriguing, or perplexing, feels creativity when playing his or her instrument, feels emotions because of the vibrations his mind is interpreting, feels "at one" with the music, or even simply has a positive or negative opinion of the sounds, he or she is a musician.

Of course, though, the topic is quite subjective, and can be debated for hours, but that is my opinion, and you are entitled to yours. Thanks for reading all of that.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#15
A musician is someone who creates music. Both the player and the composer "create" music so we're safe.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#16
Quote by pwrmax
Beginners that can make music playing simple songs but don't know enough to write and only play in their bedroom don't count?
You have some damn good points. You don't have to have any level of technical ability or training with music to be a musician. As someone once said, "you can play a solo with one note" or something along those lines. On the other end of the spectrum, you can have an enormous amount of technical ability and training, and still not be a musician. Music is about feel, or emotion. If you don't have it you can't be a musician.

Well, my mind isn't really functional anymore, so good night.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
Last edited by food1010 at Jul 19, 2009,
#17
Quote by food1010
You have some damn good points. You don't have to have any level of technical ability or training with music to be a musician. As someone once said, "you can play a solo with one note" or something along those lines. On the other end of the spectrum, you can have an enormous amount of technical ability and training, and still not be a musician. Music is about feel, or emotion. If you don't have it you can't be a musician.

Well, my mind isn't really functional anymore, so good night.


..being a musician is about nothing but creating music. "Feel" and "emotion" have jack squat to do with it. The beginner is still a musician in every way, s/he's just not a good musician.

TS: If you're asking this question because you want to be able to call yourself a musician without feeling guilty and/or still trying to be modest, just say "I'm a musician, but I'm not greatest." It's totally redundant, but it somehow makes people think you're awesome at life. Try it.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#18
Quote by Eastwinn
..being a musician is about nothing but creating music. "Feel" and "emotion" have jack squat to do with it. The beginner is still a musician in every way, s/he's just not a good musician.

TS: If you're asking this question because you want to be able to call yourself a musician without feeling guilty and/or still trying to be modest, just say "I'm a musician, but I'm not greatest." It's totally redundant, but it somehow makes people think you're awesome at life. Try it.


Oh no, I was just wondering
#19
As is being discussed elsewhere, i would say musician comprises of playing melody harmony and rhythm. If you dont have these basic components then you are not playing musicially. The question regarding who is a musician or not is a bit like the what is art thing, so its totally subjective.
#20
Quote by DaathMatal
As is being discussed elsewhere, i would say musician comprises of playing melody harmony and rhythm. If you dont have these basic components then you are not playing musicially. The question regarding who is a musician or not is a bit like the what is art thing, so its totally subjective.


So genres that don't make use of melody aren't music?

The term "musician" has a definition. Yours is wrong.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#21
Why don't we just settle this at "a musician is someone who makes music"

And we all have our own definitions of what music is.
#22
Archeo? What genres don't have melody?
GENERATION 10: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
#23
Quote by Archeo Avis
So genres that don't make use of melody aren't music?

The term "musician" has a definition. Yours is wrong.


THIS ^^^ is a musician. It doesn't matter how many instruments you can play, how much beautiful music you compose, or how much feeling you get from the music you create, until you can be an E-Toughguy on a message board, you're no musician!
#24
Quote by DaathMatal
As is being discussed elsewhere, i would say musician comprises of playing melody harmony and rhythm. If you dont have these basic components then you are not playing musicially. The question regarding who is a musician or not is a bit like the what is art thing, so its totally subjective.
I wouldn't say that in front of any drummers if I was you...
#25
Quote by pwrmax
Why don't we just settle this at "a musician is someone who makes music"

And we all have our own definitions of what music is.


That's cool, except music does have a definition. But don't look it up in a dictionary, because most of them are wrong because their definitions exclude music from other cultures. The only way to include all music from every culture is this: music is purposefully structured sound.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#26
Quote by Axe720
THIS ^^^ is a musician. It doesn't matter how many instruments you can play, how much beautiful music you compose, or how much feeling you get from the music you create, until you can be an E-Toughguy on a message board, you're no musician!
No it doesn't because 'beautiful' is entirely subjective and varies widely from person to person and the amount of feeling evoked by a piece of music will vary from person to person as well

Something that you think is 'beautiful' and 'played with feeling' might sound like **** to me
.
#27
Quote by Sami Philadelph
Musicians make music...
Has nothing to do the chords you know.
You're a Musician when you've made music.


this.

short sweet and to the point.
"... and on either side of the river was the tree of life, with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of this tree were for the healing of nations.
#28
A musician is a person who plays or writes music.

That's it, nothing to argue about.
shred is gaudy music
#29
Quote by GuitarMunky
A musician is a person who plays or writes music.

That's it, nothing to argue about.


i think that some people who go through the trouble of learning all of the ins and outs of music formally may feel they have more right to the term than others who don't go through as much trouble.

i don't necessarily agree with this, but i'm sure there's someone who does whether they'll consciously at admit or not.

THIS ^^^ is a musician. It doesn't matter how many instruments you can play, how much beautiful music you compose, or how much feeling you get from the music you create, until you can be an E-Toughguy on a message board, you're no musician!


well ok... then let's fight!
"... and on either side of the river was the tree of life, with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of this tree were for the healing of nations.
Last edited by konfyouzd at Jul 20, 2009,
#30
Quote by konfyouzd
i think that some people who go through the trouble of learning all of the ins and outs of music formally may feel they have more right to the term than others who don't go through as much trouble.



That's their problem. A persons need to satisfy their ego doesn't change how we define things. I mean they will try for the purpose of winning arguments, but ultimately anyone following their logic will be mislead. Why cater to that ****?
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 20, 2009,
#31
I don't think the argument here is really valid. If you make music, you're a musician. Now, that's not to say that Mozart and I are the same CALIBER musicians, but both musicians nonetheless.
#32
Quote by GuitarMunky
That's their problem. A persons need to satisfy their ego doesn't change how we define things. I mean they will try for the purpose of winning arguments, but ultimately anyone following their logic will be mislead. Why cater to that ****?


yea i know what you mean. sometimes i feel like i'm being a dick like that, though. like when i look at someone and say... "now THAT is not a musician..."

how do you draw the line between high standards and pretentious music elitist???

I don't think the argument here is really valid. If you make music, you're a musician. Now, that's not to say that Mozart and I are the same CALIBER musicians, but both musicians nonetheless.


fair enough
"... and on either side of the river was the tree of life, with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of this tree were for the healing of nations.
Last edited by konfyouzd at Jul 20, 2009,
#33
Quote by GuitarMunky
Quote by konfyouzd
i think that some people who go through the trouble of learning all of the ins and outs of music formally may feel they have more right to the term than others who don't go through as much trouble.
That's their problem. A persons need to satisfy their ego doesn't change how we define things. I mean they will try for the purpose of winning arguments, but ultimately anyone following their logic will be mislead. Why cater to that ****?
This is actually a fairly common logical fallacy which I've heard referred to as the 'sunk costs' fallacy. It's when someone invests time and energy in one side of a debate and then refuses to give up even after they've been shown to be wrong because they don't like to think they've been wasting their time/energy

Just throwing that out there
.
#34
Quote by Nietsche
This is actually a fairly common logical fallacy which I've heard referred to as the 'sunk costs' fallacy. It's when someone invests time and energy in one side of a debate and then refuses to give up even after they've been shown to be wrong because they don't like to think they've been wasting their time/energy

Just throwing that out there


definitely food for thought...
"... and on either side of the river was the tree of life, with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of this tree were for the healing of nations.
#35
Quote by konfyouzd
yea i know what you mean. sometimes i feel like i'm being a dick like that, though. like when i look at someone and say... "now THAT is not a musician..."

how do you draw the line between high standards and pretentious music elitist???


fair enough


I don't need to draw a line. Pretentious elitists draw that line themselves every-time they redefine a word to win an argument, or talk condescendingly to make people think they are smart. It's quite obvious, all you have to do is pay attention.
shred is gaudy music
#36
Quote by GuitarMunky
I don't need to draw a line. Pretentious elitists draw that line themselves every-time they redefine a word to win an argument, or talk condescendingly to make people think they are smart. It's quite obvious, all you have to do is pay attention.


good call.
"... and on either side of the river was the tree of life, with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of this tree were for the healing of nations.
#38
Quote by Archeo Avis
So, someone in a cover band isn't a musician? A concert flautist who doesn't compose himself isn't a musician?

I'll save everyone the trouble of of fabricating personal definitions for a word that was defined centuries ago...

Agreed
#39
Quote by food1010
Regarding cover bands: If a band plays a song exactly like the original, no they aren't musicians

That's absolutly retarded, i'm in a cover band right now that's paying me quite well, we play the songs pretty much spot on to the original.. how does that mean im not a musician? We're just trying to make more money, and in Austin cover bands tend to do very well.. i'm also in two different original projects, if you're performing for money you're a musician, period
#40
Quote by Peaceful Rocker
That's absolutly retarded, i'm in a cover band right now that's paying me quite well, we play the songs pretty much spot on to the original.. how does that mean im not a musician? We're just trying to make more money, and in Austin cover bands tend to do very well.. i'm also in two different original projects, if you're performing for money you're a musician, period


+1

If you play or compose music you're a musician. The details are irrelevant.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 20, 2009,
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