Page 1 of 2
#1
I have recently picked up a schecter atx blackjack c-7. In the process I checked out quite a few other models. The only other reasonably priced ones i found were jackson, esp and one ibanez. However all of them were crap compared to the blackjack. I payed 900 for my blackjack atx. It is the most recent model. Neck through body, full mahogany with an ebony fingerboard, which insane for action, and it is fitted with two seymore duncan blackout active pickups. Pretty good value huh? Now to what im getting at, it made me sick to see a 1200 dollar ibanez that was complete crap compared to the schecter...they went so cheap that they used their own brand pickups, and then there is the korn model...great guitar, but personally your paying 2000 dollars just because korn plays it....i had enough money for it and i still got my atx because it blew it out of the water. All I'm saying is I'm sick of companies overcharging. If they are going to make guitars that are anything but top of the line they should price them more in the range the jackson and esp were in.
#2
a guitar is complete crap because of its stock pickups and not because of its construction?
I traded in my Real Books for Robbins and Cotran Pathology Textbooks
#3
why not just make your own guitar then? i'm sure that way you won't ever get overcharged for anything oh wait you have to buy parts. heck why not make your own pickup, bridge, tuners, strings, etc. for the guitar so you will never get over charged again.
#5
ts can't really complain. In Australia, that exact schecter would be around $2000us
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#7
First of all, good job at not knowing the guitar you own is a set neck, not neck-through.

Second of all, while Schecters are aimed at bringing good specs to a lower price range, does that mean the actual instrument itself is better? No.

Pickups, tuners, electronics... all of those can be changed. The base of the guitar, the body/neck cannot be changed so easily. Get my drift?
#8
they went so cheap that they used their own brand pickups

So everyone who uses their own pick-ups is cheap?
Gibson?,fender?
So when Gibson decided to put their revolutionary Humbucking pick-ups in their guitars,they were actually cheaping out?
Now these guitars may have felt/sounded bad,but that could be your preference.It's obvious that someone likes that Korn signature model, because the artist who's signature it is,could afford any other guitar.
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Everyone just jumps on the bandwagon and gives the same advice in these situations. You know what? I'm going to be different. Call the firemen.
#9
wow australia is expensive...i feel for you.....and im glad i have no love for gibson sound cuz im not paying what they cost for a "good" model. Gibson if you can afford are good quality but no doubt part of what you are paying for is the legendary gibson name.
#10
Never buy signature guitars, they are always overpriced. And a 1200 Ibanez is bad? Take a look at the whole build quality, not just the pickups.
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#11
Quote by kramer242
wow australia is expensive...i feel for you.....and im glad i have no love for gibson sound cuz im not paying what they cost for a "good" model. Gibson if you can afford are good quality but no doubt part of what you are paying for is the legendary gibson name.

Yes, but the name "Gibson" is legendary for a reason.

You're totally overlooking the instruments these companies make, and going straight to pointing out their flawed "overcharging" of them.
#12
Quote by Pac_man0123
First of all, good job at not knowing the guitar you own is a set neck, not neck-through.

Second of all, while Schecters are aimed at bringing good specs to a lower price range, does that mean the actual instrument itself is better? No.

Pickups, tuners, electronics... all of those can be changed. The base of the guitar, the body/neck cannot be changed so easily. Get my drift?



as soon as i get a chance ill post a pic....that is what most descriptions imply....however straight from california came a new model with a neck through.....if you notice guitar models tend to get updated over time.....just like the atx didnt come out at the same time as the regular black jack
#13
Quote by Lewadra
Never buy signature guitars, they are always overpriced. And a 1200 Ibanez is bad? Take a look at the whole build quality, not just the pickups.


yeah just no. try find me a caparison dellinger with maple fretboard, dimarzio pickups, and no inlays, and in white. that isn't a signature guitar for under $5000aud. just as a note the regular caparison dellinger is $4000aud. which is cheaper then i thought
#14
Quote by kramer242
as soon as i get a chance ill post a pic....that is what most descriptions imply....however straight from california came a new model with a neck through.....if you notice guitar models tend to get updated over time.....just like the atx didnt come out at the same time as the regular black jack

/fail

The only neck through schecter is The classic. all other are set thru.

just because something has mahogany body, active pickups and a neck through neck joint doesnt mean its the big shiz. Different people prefer different body woods, neck construction and pickups
I traded in my Real Books for Robbins and Cotran Pathology Textbooks
#15
Quote by kramer242
as soon as i get a chance ill post a pic....that is what most descriptions imply....however straight from california came a new model with a neck through.....if you notice guitar models tend to get updated over time.....just like the atx didnt come out at the same time as the regular black jack

I quote from Schecter's website: "Construction: Set Neck w/ Ultra Access"
#16
Quote by Pac_man0123
I quote from Schecter's website: "Construction: Set Neck w/ Ultra Access"



ok i admit its possible im wrong on that one....I'm not trying to come off wrong to anyone....im just saying that the schecter is constructed beautifuly and while their prices are going up slowly obviously with inflation and the state of the economy, but other brands namely ibanez when it comes to 7 strings are skyrocketing. personally as i said the only thing i felt that the ibanez really had on the schecter was a slightly smaller neck....other then that the schecter felt and played much better, i have nothing bad to say about the korn model, which i was quite tempted to get, except for the price. I think if it was priced about the same as the schecter or slightly less it may be worth it. And you guys said about pick ups, why would I want to buy a guitar for over a grand and then on top of it have to spend over 200 on pickups....If I'm going to dump alot of money into a guitar I just feel it should be flawless....My apologies if i insulted anyone, not intentional
#17
Quote by kramer242
ok i admit its possible im wrong on that one....I'm not trying to come off wrong to anyone....im just saying that the schecter is constructed beautifuly and while their prices are going up slowly obviously with inflation and the state of the economy, but other brands namely ibanez when it comes to 7 strings are skyrocketing. personally as i said the only thing i felt that the ibanez really had on the schecter was a slightly smaller neck....other then that the schecter felt and played much better, i have nothing bad to say about the korn model, which i was quite tempted to get, except for the price. I think if it was priced about the same as the schecter or slightly less it may be worth it. And you guys said about pick ups, why would I want to buy a guitar for over a grand and then on top of it have to spend over 200 on pickups....If I'm going to dump alot of money into a guitar I just feel it should be flawless....My apologies if i insulted anyone, not intentional


the non japanese ibanez certainly lag behind any schecter, but the japanese made ones in terms of build quality and overall lasting quality blows any korean made schecter out of the water. my 90's RG can stay a hell lot more in tune than my 05 schecter, and it certainly has more sustain than it does despite being made in the early 90's and being bought second hand.

sig models are overpriced for most guitar companies. The only sig model that was priced as a steal and worth it was a pgm301


as for pickups, the stock even if they are great Dimarzios, Duncans, or emgs may not what i be looking for in my guitar. Makers dont always put every single possible pup combination when they make guitars. I may want a certain guitar shape, model and construction, but the pickups are not to my liking. So what? I buy it and customize it to my sounding. Pickup swaps are a breeze and save money in the long run for alot of guitars.

And really even "bad" pickups are not even a problem with the right amp. A decent amp can make "bad" pups shine.
I traded in my Real Books for Robbins and Cotran Pathology Textbooks
Last edited by mexican_shred at Jul 20, 2009,
#18
The build quality on the Ibanez was probably better. And Ibanez pickups arent too bad. Though what if seymour duncan started making guitars, do you think it would be cheap cause they use there own pickups? No. Dont say anything til u know if the pickups are good or not and then judge. Just because the company made them doesnt mean they are bad. Now, I dont know if they were good or not but still, you have to think.
#19
Quote by mexican_shred
the non japanese ibanez certainly lag behind any schecter, but the japanese made ones in terms of build quality and overall lasting quality blows any korean made schecter out of the water. my 90's RG can stay a hell lot more in tune than my 05 schecter, and it certainly has more sustain than it does despite being made in the early 90's and being bought second hand.

sig models are overpriced for most guitar companies. The only sig model that was priced as a steal and worth it was a pgm301


as for pickups, the stock even if they are great Dimarzios, Duncans, or emgs may not what i be looking for in my guitar. Makers dont always put every single possible pup combination when they make guitars. I may want a certain guitar shape, model and construction, but the pickups are not to my liking. So what? I buy it and customize it to my sounding. Pickup swaps are a breeze and save money in the long run for alot of guitars.

And really even "bad" pickups are not even a problem with the right amp. A decent amp can make "bad" pups shine.


very informational....i will say i agree about some of the older model ibanez's. I played one years ago and I mean this thing was hooked up. I dont remember the exact specs, but it blow any new ibanez away and it was dirt cheap....I cant say much about how this guitar will hold up as opposed to the japanese models, but i will say everything feels and looks well made so i guess we will leave time tell.
#20
Quote by a7xplayer
The build quality on the Ibanez was probably better. And Ibanez pickups arent too bad. Though what if seymour duncan started making guitars, do you think it would be cheap cause they use there own pickups? No. Dont say anything til u know if the pickups are good or not and then judge. Just because the company made them doesnt mean they are bad. Now, I dont know if they were good or not but still, you have to think.


no disrespect intended, but note i mentioned playing both guitars, not to mention through the same amp and the sound quality of the schecter blew it away, both in clean and distortion channels.
#21
Quote by kramer242
very informational....i will say i agree about some of the older model ibanez's. I played one years ago and I mean this thing was hooked up. I dont remember the exact specs, but it blow any new ibanez away and it was dirt cheap....I cant say much about how this guitar will hold up as opposed to the japanese models, but i will say everything feels and looks well made so i guess we will leave time tell.


I've never had a problem with a new japanese made ibanez. I've played a Jem at a store where it has been constantly abused by kids and it still held perfect tuning and sounded great. The only flaws where cosmetic thanks to the kids. even the ones i own, the over all maintenance is comparably lower than that of my ltd or schecter.


The schecter is by no means a shoddy guitar. Its a great deal, for just 900 dollars. It has solid construction and plays great. it should give very few problems. But just know that certain specs dont make the guitar. its the overall picture and construction of it. And alot of the non big deal things are preference. I myself, dont really like OFR's compared to edges and edge pros, but tits just from preference of years of playing.
I traded in my Real Books for Robbins and Cotran Pathology Textbooks
Last edited by mexican_shred at Jul 20, 2009,
#22
Quote by mexican_shred
The schecter is by no means a shoddy guitar. Its a great deal, for just 900 dollars. It has solid construction and plays great. it should give very few problems. But just know that certain specs dont make the guitar. its the overall picture and construction of it. And alot of the non big deal things are preference. I myself, dont really like OFR's compared to edges and edge pros, but tits just from preference of years of playing.


finally it seems somebody sees what im getting at....I'm going more with bang for the buck here. The schecter was beautifully priced at 900 and fully loaded....while not quite perfect....pretty close....the ibanez....for the price quite a bit could be added. The construction was pretty nice...the playability was ok but could have been a bit better in my opinion and the pickups....not horrible but wouldnt say they were good, and i do like the locking tuners...had a jackson with them and that never went out of tune. I do like Ibanez guitars, it just seems that as there popularity has grown they are following a trend that a few other major companies have done....and that is starting to skyrocket there prices.
#23
Quote by kramer242
finally it seems somebody sees what im getting at....I'm going more with bang for the buck here. The schecter was beautifully priced at 900 and fully loaded....while not quite perfect....pretty close....the ibanez....for the price quite a bit could be added. The construction was pretty nice...the playability was ok but could have been a bit better in my opinion and the pickups....not horrible but wouldnt say they were good, and i do like the locking tuners...had a jackson with them and that never went out of tune. I do like Ibanez guitars, it just seems that as there popularity has grown they are following a trend that a few other major companies have done....and that is starting to skyrocket there prices.

Its not that we didnt see you wanting a bigger band for your buck spec wise. its that you bashed a guitar based on its pickups. And the ibanez traded easily swapped pups with Team J Craft Construction which is what does their custom shop models. Added to that its on par with a schecter.

Its true their prices have been going up, but thats why of recently i never buy a japanese ibanez guitar new. They're built well enough to be bough second or third hand and still play brand new. And its a much more reasonable price. People sell barely used rg1570 with upgrades for 600 bucks on ebay and craigslist. Thats certinaly a bigger bang for you buck than alot of things in that price range
I traded in my Real Books for Robbins and Cotran Pathology Textbooks
#24
Quote by kramer242
finally it seems somebody sees what im getting at....I'm going more with bang for the buck here. The schecter was beautifully priced at 900 and fully loaded....while not quite perfect....pretty close....the ibanez....for the price quite a bit could be added. The construction was pretty nice...the playability was ok but could have been a bit better in my opinion and the pickups....not horrible but wouldnt say they were good, and i do like the locking tuners...had a jackson with them and that never went out of tune. I do like Ibanez guitars, it just seems that as there popularity has grown they are following a trend that a few other major companies have done....and that is starting to skyrocket there prices.


There's a difference between the two guitars though isn't there? Built in different factories in different countries in different working conditions? Specs may just be the tip of the iceberg when you look at constructions of guitars and stuff. You also need to look into where they get their materials from and how these materials are produced as well as how they will get these materials and make the guitar and ship it to various countries efficiently while still making some profit on it. There's probably a few more factors that need to taken into consideration to factor the selling price of a guitar.
#25
it wasnt just the pick ups i should have been a little more descriptive on everything overall the schecter played much better and unless you have small hands the slightly wider neck is not much of a problem...the guitar is also much lighter making it easy to strap on for a long period of time.....i do like ibanez but after playing both i would have spent 1200 dollars on the atx rather then 1200 on the ibanez....with the ibanez build quality and set up i feel something in the range of 800 would have been more reasonable and in the not very distant past that is roughly what it would have cost.....now in the 6 string market i would take an ibanez and change pickups cuz ive played high quality ibanez 6 strings and they were much more playable then the schecters....however in my opinion the jackson dk2s took it all in that category. Played almost identical to the ibanezs i played....actually slightly better, very comfortable feel, looked beautiful...good pickups..not great, and i loved the sustainer and the floyd rose. for 400 dollars i think that was by far the best value ive ever seen in a guitar...and it never went outta tune
#26
Quote by azn_guitarist25
There's a difference between the two guitars though isn't there? Built in different factories in different countries in different working conditions? Specs may just be the tip of the iceberg when you look at constructions of guitars and stuff. You also need to look into where they get their materials from and how these materials are produced as well as how they will get these materials and make the guitar and ship it to various countries efficiently while still making some profit on it. There's probably a few more factors that need to taken into consideration to factor the selling price of a guitar.


I can appreciate that...beautiful guitars by the way...had to check them out
#27
Quote by kramer242
it wasnt just the pick ups i should have been a little more descriptive on everything overall the schecter played much better and unless you have small hands the slightly wider neck is not much of a problem...the guitar is also much lighter making it easy to strap on for a long period of time.....i do like ibanez but after playing both i would have spent 1200 dollars on the atx rather then 1200 on the ibanez....with the ibanez build quality and set up i feel something in the range of 800 would have been more reasonable and in the not very distant past that is roughly what it would have cost.....now in the 6 string market i would take an ibanez and change pickups cuz ive played high quality ibanez 6 strings and they were much more playable then the schecters....however in my opinion the jackson dk2s took it all in that category. Played almost identical to the ibanezs i played....actually slightly better, very comfortable feel, looked beautiful...good pickups..not great, and i loved the sustainer and the floyd rose. for 400 dollars i think that was by far the best value ive ever seen in a guitar...and it never went outta tune

unless that ibanez was made of alder or mahogany its a slim chance that it was heavier. A mahogany schecter gets up there in the weight department

the dk2 is a good bang for you buck wise. however the parts and construction can be described as you get what you payed for. a better than average lfr which could have problems later, non american or japanese made jackson, lower quality wood. But in the guitar world you do generally get what you pay for even if you might think its over expensive.
I traded in my Real Books for Robbins and Cotran Pathology Textbooks
#28
Quote by mexican_shred
unless that ibanez was made of alder or mahogany its a slim chance that it was heavier. A mahogany schecter gets up there in the weight department

the dk2 is a good bang for you buck wise. however the parts and construction can be described as you get what you payed for. a better than average lfr which could have problems later, non american or japanese made jackson, lower quality wood. But in the guitar world you do generally get what you pay for even if you might think its over expensive.


the jackson was japanese with maple neck and rosewood fretboard, if i remember the body was mahogony....i put that thing through hell and it took it for the couple of years I had it b4 it got stolen out of my house....amazing guitar the action and playability was out of control. Even now the used ones on ebay still go for the full 400
#29
Quote by kramer242
I have recently picked up a schecter atx blackjack c-7. In the process I checked out quite a few other models. The only other reasonably priced ones i found were jackson, esp and one ibanez. However all of them were crap compared to the blackjack. I payed 900 for my blackjack atx. It is the most recent model. Neck through body, full mahogany with an ebony fingerboard, which insane for action, and it is fitted with two seymore duncan blackout active pickups. Pretty good value huh? Now to what im getting at, it made me sick to see a 1200 dollar ibanez that was complete crap compared to the schecter...they went so cheap that they used their own brand pickups, and then there is the korn model...great guitar, but personally your paying 2000 dollars just because korn plays it....i had enough money for it and i still got my atx because it blew it out of the water. All I'm saying is I'm sick of companies overcharging. If they are going to make guitars that are anything but top of the line they should price them more in the range the jackson and esp were in.


Nope. Other than the ebony fretboard I'd never use a guitar with those specs even if I was paid to. I hate active pickups, I prefer bolt-ons, and mahogany's too dark a wood for my tastes, brings the focus more to the lower midrange when driven rather than between the treble and mids like I enjoy.

But it's all opinion. That Ibanez you spoke of I really like if it's the one I believe it is. If it were hardtailed and had a thicker neck I'd play one of those things. Also stock pickups can kick ass(Like the old Ibanez Super 70 pickups, and all the old vintage pickups people love).

None of that shit matters though. Having a guitar that's the ultimate value isn't worth a damn if you don't like the guitar. Value doesn't matter unless you like the guitar with more value and the one with less value. What matters is you got a guitar you like. I have one I like. We have different tastes. Personally I feel that Schecter of yours is something I'd never pay that much for. But I can see why people like it. Doubting a guitar just because it uses stock pickups though is, well, idiotic, as well as blatant brand elitism, only switched from guitars to pickups.
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Last edited by necrosis1193 at Jul 20, 2009,
#30
i wish i could have afforded an american model at that time too but this thing was constructed well and decent quality for a japanese model jackson
#31
Quote by Lewadra
Never buy signature guitars, they are always overpriced. And a 1200 Ibanez is bad? Take a look at the whole build quality, not just the pickups.


Signature guitars aren't always bad
When i bought a new guitar i could choose between an american strat
and a jimie vaughan sig and the sig was better and cheaper than the american standard and it's not because i like jimie vaughan because i didn't even know him back then.
#33
I would like to change the title to:
"It's amazing how guitar companies like to charge enough for their guitars so they can pay of all the costs of making it. Factories, employees, materials, rent for office buildings, AND STILL GET A PROFIT."
it's all just coming back
it's all coming back

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#34
TS:-just `cos you didn`t like 1 guitar over another i don`t see the point of this thread which is more of a rant, a guitar to a proper musician is a very personal item, with regards to how it plays and feels and sounds and music style, personally i hate schecters and jacksons but each to their own
#35
Quote by Waffleguy
Signature guitars aren't always bad
When i bought a new guitar i could choose between an american strat
and a jimie vaughan sig and the sig was better and cheaper than the american standard and it's not because i like jimie vaughan because i didn't even know him back then.

Indeed, those jimmie vaughan strats are quality instruments, blow me away every time I try one and compare it to an american standard.

Congrats on the guitar TS
#36
I agree with IbanezGod. This thread just sounds like a rant.

Talk about bang for your buck. I picked up my japanese made Ibanez RG for $325 and to me, it plays better than any schecter or jackson out there. I use to be in love with Schecters until I picked one up at Guitar Center. Played like ****. I had one with EMG's for a while that I picked up for cheap and it just sat around. Not my cup of tea....

But like what Necrosis said, all that matters is that you get a guitar that you like. That makes the value of the guitar for you. Doesn't mean you need to bash other brands because they come with stock pickups.

So no reason to bash brands. Nothing is ever overpriced to me since I only buy from the used Market.

You paid $900 and you're happy.
I paid $325 and couldn't be happier.

To each his own, but I look at your schecter and say "damn, that's overpriced"

Anyways, happy new guitar day. Have fun.
#37
Ibanez's stock pickups are good anyway. Alot of guitarists don't change them. That said, alot of them do too. And mind you, Schecter to me, and alot of people, screams "Synyster Gates is my guitar idol, and who is Led Zeppelin?". They look like a big clunky lump of metalcore failure. Of course that's just my opinion.
#38
Quote by Lewadra
Never buy signature guitars, they are always overpriced. And a 1200 Ibanez is bad? Take a look at the whole build quality, not just the pickups.


I agree with that. Any company that pimps there wares due to what artist is playing them is just lame.
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#39
Quote by kramer242
I have recently picked up a schecter atx blackjack c-7. In the process I checked out quite a few other models. The only other reasonably priced ones i found were jackson, esp and one ibanez. However all of them were crap compared to the blackjack. I payed 900 for my blackjack atx. It is the most recent model. Neck through body, full mahogany with an ebony fingerboard, which insane for action, and it is fitted with two seymore duncan blackout active pickups. Pretty good value huh? Now to what im getting at, it made me sick to see a 1200 dollar ibanez that was complete crap compared to the schecter...they went so cheap that they used their own brand pickups, and then there is the korn model...great guitar, but personally your paying 2000 dollars just because korn plays it....i had enough money for it and i still got my atx because it blew it out of the water. All I'm saying is I'm sick of companies overcharging. If they are going to make guitars that are anything but top of the line they should price them more in the range the jackson and esp were in.


So... pretty much any PRS or Gibson is a cheap piece of crap...? I mean, by that logic it must be true right? They make their own pickups for their guitars.

Anyways, Ibanez stock pups are pretty good quality. There's better pups out there but they are still pretty good.
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#40
here in the UK, some guitars and amps are soo overpriced, it's unbelievable.
a Jackson that sells for $700 in the states goes for £700 in the shops here.
there are companies out there that keep the prices fairer.
then there's also companies that mark up their stuff like hell.
all companies do it to some extent, but some are just ridiculous.
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