#1
Ok I'm used to smashing this scale with power chords and distortion so when I started doing acoustic stuff and harmonizing the scale I found it to be a rather different ball-game than standard modes.

I've looked around a bit and noticed this scale isn't discussed too much on here (Perhaps I haven't looked hard enough) I've also heard that 'exotic' scales such as this (usually tied to eastern music) don't meld well with conventional western ideals and
chord progressions.

Please post any ideas, I've had a lot of success with this scale in a metal environment now i want to nail the other end of the spectrum.
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#2
It's extremely unstable. The only piece I can play that makes good use of Phrygian Dominant uses with Phrygian as a compliment, but ultimately it resolves to a major tonic. The progression is I - iv7. An I7 would bring more of a Phrygian Dominant feel, but the tritone between the 3rd and 7th of a dominant chord makes it want to resolve. Instead, the b7 is used in the melody. A natural 3rd is used over iv7, but it's mostly avoided in the first place.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#4
Quote by bnull24
Probably going to need a diminished chord in your progression to help out.


Yeah there's options on 2 3 5 and 7
Diminished on 3rd sounds pretty bad
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#5
Using a diminished chord isn't the greatest idea because they always want to resolve and establish a tonic a semitone up, and that gets you no where.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#6
Eastern, especially middle eastern music generally don't have chord progressions. In a non-metal environment you can try droning the tonic an octave or 2 lower while jamming around with the phrygian dominant in a higher register, with strong emphasis on that minor 2nd.
#7
Something I do alot when jamming with a friend is just do a i - iv - V and hit it all offbeat to give it more swing, and usually just triads on the upper 3 strings.

So usually just Am, Dm, E7 and back round. Forever.
#8
Quote by Volvic
Something I do alot when jamming with a friend is just do a i - iv - V and hit it all offbeat to give it more swing, and usually just triads on the upper 3 strings.

So usually just Am, Dm, E7 and back round. Forever.


That progression is, and will always be, A minor. Not anything having to do with phrygian dominant.
#9
Quote by pwrmax
Eastern, especially middle eastern music generally don't have chord progressions. In a non-metal environment you can try droning the tonic an octave or 2 lower while jamming around with the phrygian dominant in a higher register, with strong emphasis on that minor 2nd.


So what does eastern-middle eastern music use instead of chord progressions? Are there any good examples on the web (with phrygian dominant)?
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#11
Quote by steven seagull
Drone notes.
Yep. The root note or the root with a fifth are probably your best bet
.
#12
Quote by Serpentarius
So what does eastern-middle eastern music use instead of chord progressions? Are there any good examples on the web (with phrygian dominant)?

eastern music focus far more on melody than harmony. Teh only real harmonic ideas are the relationships between the melodic notes and the drone note under it.
#13
Quote by Serpentarius
So what does eastern-middle eastern music use instead of chord progressions? Are there any good examples on the web (with phrygian dominant)?


See, that kind of music wouldn't use phrygian dominant because they have a completely different musical system from ours.
#14
Quote by timeconsumer09
See, that kind of music wouldn't use phrygian dominant because they have a completely different musical system from ours.

That's true actually, drone notes with phrygian dominant leads to the Hollywood version of Eastern music, you know, the kind you hear on all the Aladdin movies and such.

REAL Middle Eastern music makes use of quarter tones and not just semitones. Unless you have a fretless guitar (or you have amazingly accurate bending abilities) then you will need some Eastern instruments. My uncle actually owns a keyboard that can use quarter tones, basically what it does it make it so that you pick a note (say G) and whenever you hit the G key it actually plays a G but a quarter tone flatter and that makes what he's playing sound truly eastern once he gets the percussion tracks going.
#15
Quote by pwrmax
That's true actually, drone notes with phrygian dominant leads to the Hollywood version of Eastern music, you know, the kind you hear on all the Aladdin movies and such.

REAL Middle Eastern music makes use of quarter tones and not just semitones. Unless you have a fretless guitar (or you have amazingly accurate bending abilities) then you will need some Eastern instruments. My uncle actually owns a keyboard that can use quarter tones, basically what it does it make it so that you pick a note (say G) and whenever you hit the G key it actually plays a G but a quarter tone flatter and that makes what he's playing sound truly eastern once he gets the percussion tracks going.


You should post up an mp3 of that, would be cool.
Quote by UtBDan
this man hits the nail on the head.
#16
Quote by blueriver
You should post up an mp3 of that, would be cool.

Unfortunately I don't have any recordings of my uncle's gigs, but here's a video with some real middle eastern music, as you can hear, it bears very little resemblance to the phrygian dominant scale.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0RemPUtDyQ
#17
OK lets forget about Eastern music and talk about flamenco guitarists; what chords do they use?
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#18
Quote by Serpentarius
OK lets forget about Eastern music and talk about flamenco guitarists; what chords do they use?

I don't know too much about flamenco, play the chords E F E F. That's about all I think of. Try using the Byzantine scale as well.
Last edited by pwrmax at Jul 22, 2009,
#19
Outside of shred/metal settings, I almost never hear phyrgian dominant. The scale is typically used as the harmonic minor scale over the V7 chord (more or less, E phrygian dominant is A harmonic minor played over E or E7; though this definition isn't really true when you get to modal theory, it works fine for now). Race with Devil on Spanish Highway is a good example of this, though it's hard to follow the key changes.

I've used it in some jazzy settings. Try messing around with that E F progression and add in some additional chords, and maybe even throw some altered tones on E and F.

It's late for me, so I apologize for being terse. Depending on what others have to say, I can elaborate on this tomorrow or over the weekend (I think/hope I'll have some free time...finally).
#21
Quote by timeconsumer09
That progression is, and will always be, A minor. Not anything having to do with phrygian dominant.

Well if I were to play A harmonic minor over that last E7 chord, it would most definately have alot to do with Phrygian Dominant...
#22
Quote by Volvic
Well if I were to play A harmonic minor over that last E7 chord, it would most definately have alot to do with Phrygian Dominant...


If you're resolving back to an A minor chord (and you already suggested Am was your i chord), then no, it has little to do with Phrygian dominant.
Last edited by Dodeka at Jul 27, 2009,
#23
I'm really sorry for the technical people, where I am only playing Phrygian Dominant over 1 of my 3 chords.
But my ears blantantly tell me of that distinctive Phrygian Dominant sound, and if you can't hear that when playing around with them chords then I'm afraid no book is going to save you..
#24
You're just using a portion of the A harmonic minor scale, probably highlighting E7 chord tones. There's no reason to think of it as a mode.
#25
Quote by Dodeka
You're just using a portion of the A harmonic minor scale, probably highlighting E7 chord tones. There's no reason to think of it as a mode.

The purpose of this thread was for the guy to find new ways to get that Phrygian Dominant sound. I was only trying to help the guy out, don't critisize to feed your own ego. I always wondered why the music buisness had so many inflated egos within it..

Now if you want to be strictly modal, keep the low E string ringing throught the whole thing and think of the Am as an Esus4 with a flat 6 and the Dm as E7sus4 with a flat 9.

Happy now?


Now that things have got a little more flashy and confusing, maybe our threadstarter will get abit closer to them Phrygian Dominant sounds he's been looking for?
#26
Quote by Volvic
The purpose of this thread was for the guy to find new ways to get that Phrygian Dominant sound. I was only trying to help the guy out, don't critisize to feed your own ego. I always wondered why the music buisness had so many inflated egos within it..

Now if you want to be strictly modal, keep the low E string ringing throught the whole thing and think of the Am as an Esus4 with a flat 6 and the Dm as E7sus4 with a flat 9.

Happy now?


Now that things have got a little more flashy and confusing, maybe our threadstarter will get abit closer to them Phrygian Dominant sounds he's been looking for?


You can't "think" of those chords that way because that's not how they function. That's a textbook Am progression you wrote out. I think the "phrygian dominant" sound you're thinking of is just the raised seventh of harmonic minor, because nothing in the progression implies any need to use modes at all.

Nobody is criticizing your for their own ego, either. Don't post things that are misleading and nobody is going to criticize you.
#27
Well there's always the generic "Zorro" vamp(I - bII), lol.

In Phrygian Dominant, the chords I tend to focus on are the I, the bII, the bvii, and the bVI. Mess with those a lot. A bvii - I is also exceptionally good at highlighting the sound of the mode.
Last edited by grampastumpy at Jul 27, 2009,
#28
Even if we talk about harmonic minor it's still a step closer to solving the problem which is using whole chords with this difficult family of scales.

Quote by grampastumpy
Well there's always the generic "Zorro" vamp(I - bII), lol.

In Phrygian Dominant, the chords I tend to focus on are the I, the bII, the bvii, and the bVI. Mess with those a lot. A bvii - I is also exceptionally good at highlighting the sound of the mode.


Yes the 'Zorro' vamp, I've used the I - II - VII to good effect but that augmented VI throws me.
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Last edited by Serpentarius at Jul 27, 2009,
#29
It seems like I-bII would be highly dependent on the melody. Without a melody you won't be able to distinguish it from a simple I-bII major key progression. If the melody had a b2, b6, and b7 then I suppose you could call that Phrygian Dominant. It would be better to have a 3 chord vamp like I-iv7-bII-I. That might sound alright. The iv7 is funny sounding because it's a minor/major7th, so you could drop the seventh if you wanted to.
i don't know why i feel so dry