#1
I have been studying the Heavy Guitar Bible and am really liking it... but it focuses on Major and Blues scales... and I love the Minor scales.

Let me give an example of what I am looking for by using the E Major Mode.

E Major triad E,A,B. Related Minors C#, F#, G#. Relative Majors D, G.

Now while messing around with these notes you can do all sorts of neat things... but what is the formula for the Minor mode?

Minor mode I IV V is the Minor triad, but what are the related majors? are there any? Are there any relative minors? Does it all add up to 8 notes to use in writing music like the Major?

How about the other modes? If you know of some good links on this subject please let me know. Or if you want to take the time to spell it out for me I would be appreciative.
#4
This Heavy Guitar Bible doesn't seem to be the greatest book on the shelf. I can expand on this subject (harmonizing the major and minor scale) but I've got to know a few things first...

1) Do you know how to construct the major and minor scale?
2) Do you have you know what intervals are and are you familiar with the names?
3) Do you know how to construct the basic triads?

If the answer to all of those are yes then I'll go ahead and explain this all to you in this thread. Otherwise: http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/search.php?s=crusade&w=columns . Start with Part 1 and make your way all the way through.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#5
Quote by m6747
Wait what? the E major triad is EGB the relative minor is, Ab and there isn't a relative major to a major scale. Theory gods am I right?

Check this thread out for some further reading.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187159

Feel free to post back w/ questions


relative minor would be C#m
and the formula for the relative minor scale (aeolian mode) is
T, ST, T, T, ST, T, T
Last edited by M!TCH at Jul 20, 2009,
#6
Quote by m6747
Wait what? the E major triad is EGB the relative minor is, Ab and there isn't a relative major to a major scale. Theory gods am I right?

Check this thread out for some further reading.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187159

Feel free to post back w/ questions



I am just going by what the Heavy Guitar Bible says... written in the 1970's.

It says;

1st basic root E

2nd basic five frets above root A.

3rd basic seven frets above root B.

Thought that was the Major triad... but does not look like it is. So not sure what they are doing in the book, but it does work.
#8
Quote by Eastwinn
This Heavy Guitar Bible doesn't seem to be the greatest book on the shelf. I can expand on this subject (harmonizing the major and minor scale) but I've got to know a few things first...

1) Do you know how to construct the major and minor scale?
2) Do you have you know what intervals are and are you familiar with the names?
3) Do you know how to construct the basic triads?

If the answer to all of those are yes then I'll go ahead and explain this all to you in this thread. Otherwise: http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/search.php?s=crusade&w=columns . Start with Part 1 and make your way all the way through.


Yes to 1, no to 2 & 3.

Thanks for the link.
#9
OK, am really questioning buying the Heavy Guitar Bible now. The theory it has shown me DOES work, but is based on 70' hard rock... so may be out of date.
#10
Quote by ISSGOD
I am just going by what the Heavy Guitar Bible says... written in the 1970's.

It says;

1st basic root E

2nd basic five frets above root A.

3rd basic seven frets above root B.

Thought that was the Major triad... but does not look like it is. So not sure what they are doing in the book, but it does work.


yeah, but E A B is Esus4
Seagull Entourage Mini Jumbo
#11
Quote by ISSGOD
OK, am really questioning buying the Heavy Guitar Bible now. The theory it has shown me DOES work, but is based on 70' hard rock... so may be out of date.


It's not that it's out of date. Theory hasn't exactly changed a whole lot in the last 30-40 years. The problem is that it's a book marketed towards guitarists which is simply bad news. Most of these books are simply "OMG GUITAR SECRETS LOL" books that don't give you the real theory, they give you ****ty cheat sheets that don't do you too much good at all. For that reason, if you ever want to pick up a book about music, make sure it doesn't say "For Guitarists" in the title. That can almost guarantee it will be misleading, uninformative, unconcise, or just flat-out wrong. Do follow that link I posted.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#12
TS, if I was you I'd put the book on one side until I've understood everything in the link Eastwinn gave you - then have a look at the book and see if its got any good ideas you can use in it, once you understand enough theory to work out what it means and tell for yourself if it makes sense, and if its just naming things strangely.
#13
@Mitch yeah i'm retarded sorry...

Just so you know... the theory you learn in a college setting is generally based on stuff dating back to Bach etc. Theory as a whole hasn't changed in hundreds of years, its more the application and the number of rules that are broken that has changed
#14
I checked out the Heavy Guitar Bible in a bookstore once. It looked kind of cool, but when I did a little research, I found out that the author was really flying by the seat of his pants when he wrote it. He was discovering things for himself at the time and just kind of documenting what he was finding out. It almost seemed like some sort of guitar journal or something.

Anyway, it might be an interesting book with some neat drawings and a cool title, but hardly the "Bible" for guitar.
#15
I think you could be misunderstanding. The major triads in the key of E major are E A and B. Or the I IV V chords. The E major triad or E major chord however is E G♯ B.

I don't know if anyone suggested that already, but I shouldn't be here right now I have work to do.
Si
#16
Quote by 20Tigers
I think you could be misunderstanding. The major triads in the key of E major are E A and B. Or the I IV V chords. The E major triad or E major chord however is E G♯ B.

I don't know if anyone suggested that already, but I shouldn't be here right now I have work to do.


Its easier and less confusing to say that the dominant chords are I IV and V instead of the major triads in the key of E major are
#17
Quote by M!TCH
Its easier and less confusing to say that the dominant chords are I IV and V instead of the major triads in the key of E major are

On the contrary it is more confusing to say the dominant chords are I IV and V in the key of E major.

The reason I say this is I IV and V are all major triads in the key of E major. This is a simple matter of fact.

However the I and IV are not dominant chords in the key of E major. Only the V is a dominant chord in the key of E major. The I is the tonic and the IV is the sub dominant. Also V7 is the dominant 7th chord and it only occurs on the V.

I'm not sure where the TS is going wrong. It seems there may be a few areas. I'm not sure if the book he is reading is flawed or what he is reading is flawed. If I had more time I would explain to him the following in the following order...

The E major scale and how it is formed.
The minor scale and how it relates to the major scale. Then I would explain the terms "relative" and "parallel" in regards to scales. Then I would explain how C♯minor is the relative minor of E major. The other scales/chords he mentioned are not "relative" to the key of E major.
Then I would explain how to harmonize the major scale and what chords are produced as a result.

Then I would briefly run through the three chord trick and how the dominant and subdominant work in relation to the tonic chord.

But that would take about four full posts and a couple hours to write. So if he has a read of that and points out any particular area he doesn't understand or isn't completely comfortable with then it could save time and help other's as well as myself understand how we can help him get on top of this stuff.
Si
#18
lol dude. Nice waste of time writing that out/copying it. I know how its all formed and about major/minor relatives and what not. I mean in general, like the dominant chords are"blah blah blah(whatever they are for that key)" instead of saying the major triads in the key of (whatever key you want) are...Cuz theres always gonna be some noob that goes and names the triads of the chord and not the 'major triads of the key', thats why i think its easier to call them dominant chords. I know theres the business of the subdominant and what not but for beginners i think Dominant will be easier to understand.
#19
I still can't agree with you man.

Why would you teach someone wrong just because they are beginners. It's easier to learn the correct terms from the start.

Now I think I get what you are saying. You could say "main chords", or "awesome sounding chords" or "the most important chords in E major" or "the most powerful chords in E major", or "the strongest sounding chords", or nearly anything else to describe the importance of the relationship between tonic sub dominant and dominant chords in western harmony.

But using the word Dominant to describe all three of them can lead to confusion since the word Dominant has a specific meaning in a musical context and is restricted only to the V chord.

Just because they are beginners doesn't mean they are stupid. If you explain it well and explain it correctly from the start they should get it pretty easily. It's pretty basic beginner stuff anyway.

EDIT: If you are explaining the power/importance of the I IV and V chords in a major key then that is precisely the time you would introduce them to the correct terms and names for each of these chords - tonic, subdominant, and dominant respectively. So sorry man I can't see any reason to call them all "dominant". I'm really not trying to go all Archeo Avis on you or anything but
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Jul 22, 2009,
#21
...I think the word you were looking for is "primary". I've heard that used more than once to describe I, IV, and V.
i don't know why i feel so dry