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#3
fernandes sustainer system

GUITARS CURRENTLY USED
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#4
Quote by SPBY
fernandes sustainer system

this. or ghetto way: raise pickups, turn up gain. gives the appearance of slightly more sustain.
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I can't imagine anything worse than shagging to Mark Knopfler.

Maybe shagging Mark Knopfler, but that's about it.
#7
Get some new saddles for your bridge, maybe even a new bridge. Lube your nut some (that didn't sound right at all) and some better tuners wouldn't hurt. A good compression pedal or an eq could help too.
#8
Slight vibrato, make sure your guitar is set up right, no fret buzz.
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#9
Quote by TK1
this. or ghetto way: raise pickups, turn up gain. gives the appearance of slightly more sustain.

I have been considering this myself, is it a smart thing to do? My friend said you should raise them
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#10
Quote by you = fail
I have been considering this myself, is it a smart thing to do? My friend said you should raise them


It's a good notion but remember if you raise them too much than the magnetic flux of the pickup can deaden the strings vibration......or something along the lines of that.
#11
Any chance of finding out what guitar before we all sound off our pet theories?
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#14
The answer is to get your guitar properly setup and learn to play.

Raising pickups doesn't help sustain, if anything it makes it worse because the difference between the note attack and decay is far more pronounced.
Actually called Mark!

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#15
the cheap way add more mass to the headstock, put a small piece of metal like a large coin on the headstock attach with tape there are products out-there that that use this principle but this is by far the easiest.
#16
Without mods: high gain and effective vibrato/use of feedback control (change your position in relation to your amp to get the effect you want).
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#18
Quote by ibanezgod1973
the cheap way add more mass to the headstock, put a small piece of metal like a large coin on the headstock attach with tape there are products out-there that that use this principle but this is by far the easiest.

Uh, I doubt this would work. How does increasing mass have anything to do with increasing the duration of a sound wave?
^Note: Probably sarcastic
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Quote by crisisinheaven
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#19
Quote by Deep*Kick
Uh, I doubt this would work. How does increasing mass have anything to do with increasing the duration of a sound wave?



ok unhplug tou electric and gently place the headstock against a solid wooden door, the soend wave reverberates through the extra mass more thus maintaining the the note longer.

at 2:05 mike manning refers to the fat finger which pretty much is the same as adding a coin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYD7TYGv1RU

fat finger http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/products/406-fat_finger_sustain_tool_chrome_

so now you`ve been educated
#20
Added sustain would be negligible unless the material is directly added to the wood. As the wave passes through the finish and into the other material it would loose energy, countering the effect of an increase in mass.
^Note: Probably sarcastic
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Quote by crisisinheaven
Deep*Kick. You have destroyed every concept of life I've ever had.
#21
make sure you have a good bridge and nut and get decent pickups. if its a crappy guitar then theres not a whole lot you can do. you can buy sustainers, pedals, and other stuff but for all the money and effort id just buy a new (better) guitar
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#22
delay, a proper setup, a better guitar...
"... and on either side of the river was the tree of life, with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of this tree were for the healing of nations.
#23
Quote by Deep*Kick
Added sustain would be negligible unless the material is directly added to the wood. As the wave passes through the finish and into the other material it would loose energy, countering the effect of an increase in mass.
Incorrect, adding any mass will increase the sustain.

At least, it will technically increase the sustain - whether or not it'll be enough of an increase for you to actually hear is another story.



Anyhoo, get a proper set up, lower your pickups and if you don't play much jazz or blues, get a compressor pedal too.
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#24
^ lowering the pickups is a good call. magnet pull can be a biotch...
"... and on either side of the river was the tree of life, with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of this tree were for the healing of nations.
#25
to quote Mr. Fripp: "Attitude"

vibrato can really hold your note for a looooong time, if you play it correctly. I can get my cheap 100$ SG nockoff to sing when I want to, its a matter of technique.
#26
To the guy thats doubting sustain is affected by mass...

1.Play a Les Paul
2.Play a Strat
3.??
4. Profit
#27
Quote by Jonny Yuma
To the guy thats doubting sustain is affected by mass...

1.Play a Les Paul
2.Play a Strat
3.??
4. Profit


just because les pauls weigh a ton doesn't mean they have better sustain...

not that they don't have nice sustain but you don't have to have a 30 lb guitar to have good sustain...
"... and on either side of the river was the tree of life, with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of this tree were for the healing of nations.
#28
Yes, but the simple fact is that sound waves permeate through denser materials faster and easier than less dense counterparts.

Sound waves travel slow in air, fast in water, fastest in solids.

See the correlation?

Yes admittedly you do not need a 30lb guitar for good sustain, I was merely using two polar opposites for a point.

However my main point is that the guy doesn't actually know what he is talking about in regards to adding mass and all that 'counteract' nonsense.
#29
Quote by Jonny Yuma
Yes, but the simple fact is that sound waves permeate through denser materials faster and easier than less dense counterparts.

Sound waves travel slow in air, fast in water, fastest in solids.

See the correlation?

Yes admittedly you do not need a 30lb guitar for good sustain, I was merely using two polar opposites for a point.

However my main point is that the guy doesn't actually know what he is talking about in regards to adding mass and all that 'counteract' nonsense.


gotcha. i always thought it had more to do with certain woods being inherently more resonant than others not necessarily the amount of wood present, dig?

also, don't people add larger blocks to their floyd roses for added sustain?

wow... i just made an argument for AND against my point.

*konfyouzd am i...*
"... and on either side of the river was the tree of life, with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of this tree were for the healing of nations.
#30
Anyways, raise the action, lower the pickups, increase the gain and get a better nut and saddles.
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#31
Haha, well you are right in the sense that certain woods are indeed inherently more resonant, hence the term 'tone wood'.

Woods like mahogany/ash/whatever are suited due to their density and resonant frequencies. This is also why thin coats of paint are put on many high end guitars, in order to preserve the 'resonance', though some guitarists do not like natural resonance in their guitars.

But yeah, to add sustain to a strat, many place a block of wood between the trem block and claw in order to block the trem and subsequently increase sustain, same effect as adding one of those 'fat fingers'.

bbbbbbbbbbbbbut this all pales in comparison if you don't actually know good vibrato technique...
#33
Quote by Jonny Yuma
Haha, well you are right in the sense that certain woods are indeed inherently more resonant, hence the term 'tone wood'.

Woods like mahogany/ash/whatever are suited due to their density and resonant frequencies. This is also why thin coats of paint are put on many high end guitars, in order to preserve the 'resonance', though some guitarists do not like natural resonance in their guitars.

But yeah, to add sustain to a strat, many place a block of wood between the trem block and claw in order to block the trem and subsequently increase sustain, same effect as adding one of those 'fat fingers'.

bbbbbbbbbbbbbut this all pales in comparison if you don't actually know good vibrato technique...


yea the vibrato technique is key. i've been able to squeeze a tiny bit more sustain out of my axes by focusing more on my vibrato.

but i've found that adding a tiny bit of delay instead in the place of reverb not only sounds better than reverb (to my ears) it'll also give a little more delay as well.

i think yngwie uses a little bit of delay for his tone.
"... and on either side of the river was the tree of life, with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of this tree were for the healing of nations.
#34
Higher gauge strings, in my opinion add to better sustain aswell. On my SG I've switched between using 10s and 9's, even using Hybrid slinkies, but notes just do not ring out properly with 9's.

10's give a much rounder clearer note in my ears, though it may be to do with the set up, although I have noticed this on various guitars.

Yeah I agree that reverb/delay adds to the impression of sustain, and then again thats all that really matters in the end, what sounds good.
#35
i didn't know string gauge would give you more sustain. i always played 10s just because i thought they felt better
"... and on either side of the river was the tree of life, with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of this tree were for the healing of nations.
#36
Hmmm...well I'm not 100% on the matter, but yeah either way they increase sustain by looking at it from two perspectives.

If they feel better, that means technique will benefit, and so better vibrato and more sustain.

Secondly, there is a mass difference and change in force needed to apply the string to the fretboard. The finger will press down harder causing a more efficient transfer of energy to the guitar and subsequently better sustain.

Take from it what you will?
#37
Quote by Jonny Yuma
Yes, but the simple fact is that sound waves permeate through denser materials faster and easier than less dense counterparts.

Sound waves travel slow in air, fast in water, fastest in solids.

See the correlation?

Yes admittedly you do not need a 30lb guitar for good sustain, I was merely using two polar opposites for a point.

However my main point is that the guy doesn't actually know what he is talking about in regards to adding mass and all that 'counteract' nonsense.

The finish of your guitar is markedly less dense than the wood itself. As a sound wave passes through the finish to your extra coin or whatever it changes (slows) in velocity. So each time the sound wave resonates through the coin it passes through the finish losing energy each time. Sustain decreases. Not to mention A coin taped to your headstock would have spaces between it and your finish (as you said air = relatively slow wave velocity)

I didn't say that extra wood doesn't help sustain, I said added mass not attached directly to the wood would have negligible difference.

EDIT: About the whole counteract thing, E=MV², so a reduced wave velocity has a higher impact on energy than an increased mass.
^Note: Probably sarcastic
Gear
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Carvin X-100B
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Quote by crisisinheaven
Deep*Kick. You have destroyed every concept of life I've ever had.
Last edited by Deep*Kick at Jul 22, 2009,
#38
Ahhhh I see what you mean now, well I suppose it depends on the efficiency of energy transfer between wood and whatever method of sustain increase.

Yeah the coin would be absolutely ridiculous as not to mention it would look terrible, it would indeed have air spaces and notwithstanding the fact that the plastic(tape) holding it to the guitar would deform plastically and hence kinetic energy in the form of the sound wave would be attenuated.

Sorry to have doubted that logic! I think I just saw it from the wrong perspective, Ie you just saying that mass =/= sustain. I'll have to be more attentive in future...

[Edit]
There is no E=MV²

I think you meant E=1/2 MV²

And it does not correspond to a wave velocity, wave=/=particle.

A wave is simply the front of a movement of particles, there is only longitudinal displacement of said particles which promptly move back to their original positions.

I forget the formula for seismic waves however it takes the young's modulus and density of the material into account. Young's modulus over density I believe with some square root thrown in there...
Last edited by Jonny Yuma at Jul 22, 2009,
#39
Quote by Deep*Kick
The finish of your guitar is markedly less dense than the wood itself. As a sound wave passes through the finish to your extra coin or whatever it changes (slows) in velocity. So each time the sound wave resonates through the coin it passes through the finish losing energy each time. Sustain decreases. Not to mention A coin taped to your headstock would have spaces between it and your finish (as you said air = relatively slow wave velocity)

I didn't say that extra wood doesn't help sustain, I said added mass not attached directly to the wood would have negligible difference.

EDIT: About the whole counteract thing, E=MV², so a reduced wave velocity has a higher impact on energy than an increased mass.


some guitars come with those really heavy coats that do dampen the resonance a bit. how noticeable that'll be to your ear i think depends on how hard you're listening, though.
"... and on either side of the river was the tree of life, with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of this tree were for the healing of nations.
#40
In regards to the mass and velocity thing, you may have been talking about momentum, but yet again, things like momentum do not concern themselves with waves. Only particles.

However this is debatable, but in order to dispute such a thing you would need to delve into the world of wave/particle duality and quantum physics.
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