#1
Looking for an amp for cleans only american voicing. I do not need volume so anything of 50w is fine. I like traynors and matchless (but who doesnt). Budget £600-£700
#3
Vintage Fender Bassman Head... I have a 1967 head... best clean tone...
#4
Quote by lefthandman9876
Urhhh a fender?


...ive tried most fenders. i was looking for any recommendations from more small or boutique companies
#5
A 50w tube amp will be so loud your windows will shake on a very low setting.
#6
Quote by lefthandman9876
Urhhh a fender?


seriously haha maybe a deluxe reverb reissue? 22w and sounds great imo
My Gear:
MIM Fender Strat HSS

My Influences:
1) David Gilmour
2) SRV
3) Jimmy Page
4) Jimmi Hendrix
5) Slash
#7
Kustom Defender. Cheap. Amazing cleans.

If I had that money to spend, I'd get a Fender. I don't know if you can get boutique amps for that, and even then boutique amps aren't all that great for some situations...
Last edited by sashki at Jul 23, 2009,
#8
There are many smaller companies who make great alternatives to high-gain amps liek MEsa or mid-gain ''British'' amps like Marshall and Orange, but when it comes to Fender amps I've yet to find a good alternative. Whatever any other brand is putting out, the Fenders have always been genuinely better, and I'm not just saying that because they have a more famous name slapped on them. I've just genuinely never found a bright, ''American toned'' amp from another company that can match Fender's.

To that end, Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. They go for around £500, 40w valve amp, great cleans, surprisingly useful distortion for most things other than very hard rock and metal (though it also accepts pedals very nicely so that's not so much of a problem, I think), bright switch, gain boost/lead switch, has a nice footpedal with it (from most stores), pretty much everything you want from a professional-quality Fender amp. Really surprisingly loud too.
It was actually a limited edition green Hot Rod Deluxe that I played through when I picked out my Gibson CS '59 LP, and I have to say the combination of the two was the best tone I've found anywhere and nothing else has come even close to replicating it, not even other Fender amps.
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#9
I was gonna say something more than one word, but all I can say is...
Quote by MrFlibble
\To that end, Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. They go for around £500, 40w valve amp, great cleans, surprisingly useful distortion for most things other than very hard rock and metal (though it also accepts pedals very nicely so that's not so much of a problem, I think), bright switch, gain boost/lead switch, has a nice footpedal with it (from most stores), pretty much everything you want from a professional-quality Fender amp. Really surprisingly loud too.
It was actually a limited edition green Hot Rod Deluxe that I played through when I picked out my Gibson CS '59 LP, and I have to say the combination of the two was the best tone I've found anywhere and nothing else has come even close to replicating it, not even other Fender amps.

This.
#10
Hot Rod Deluxes are pretty badass amps, some of the best 'budget tube' cleans you will get and literal tube distortion (SS component amplifies sound to overdrive tubes naturally, as if crankin the volume clean).

As an owner, you have to find your feel for its' EQ but there is a reason its' one of the highest selling amps of all time (allegedly) due to its' price and quality. With some pedals to distort to your liking and you're set. Good headroom, will play any guitar and sound right for it (so long as its' EQ'd decently. Don't give a strat on its' bridge position excessive treble, you know?).

Other than the big brother (DeVille models) I find no other versatile Fender amp without the use of pedals in my fairly limited experience. Twin Reverbs, Rotoverbs, etc. are great for cleans, BEAUTIFUL, but I've not run distortion pedals to report on how they will take them.
#11
Quote by Stupot1
...ive tried most fenders. i was looking for any recommendations from more small or boutique companies
you might have a hard time finding a small boutique amp for that price. But here are some options...

Allen Old Flame - which is a boutique BF SR style amp
Fargen blackbird - which is a boutique BF DR style amp
Victoria 45410 - which is a boutique tweed 5f6a bassman style amp

But these are all pretty price, I've played the Victoria and Allen, but all differ, depending on your situation, the DR style amps might not have enough volume or headroom for what you want. I gigged a '65 DRRI a few years back and needed to mic it, and I was running it full tilt. But a BF SR and tweed Bassman are both around 40 watts, which has enough headroom for getting great clean tones whilst being able to turn the volume up a bit but are also low enough in power that you can get some great overdrive as well from it if you wish. But it all depends on WHAT Fender tone you're looking for.

Another option if you're into that tweed sound is looking at Marshall JTM45 alternatives. I don't know many in the UK, but in the USA there are a ton of great adaptations. Imo, the JTM45 is one of the best sounding amplifiers, clean and distorted, ever built.

As for the HRD

I really love Fenders, but I hate the HRD, their overdrive is one of the worst I've heard from a tube amp and is, IMO, essentially useless. I have yet to plug a les paul into a HRD, try to crank the volume and not get an overdriven tone that is super boomy, flabby low end that 1) lacks clarity and 2) lacks bite. Other than that, they're ok if you're on a budget, but for that classic Fender clean and overdrive tone, they won't really get you there, especially if your idea of a Fender clean is a good BF amp. They're not bad, but they just don't really sound like your typical Fender, and if you can afford a BF style amp, I think you'd be much happier.
Last edited by al112987 at Jul 23, 2009,
#12
Quote by MrFlibble
To that end, Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. They go for around £500, 40w valve amp, great cleans, surprisingly useful distortion for most things other than very hard rock and metal (though it also accepts pedals very nicely so that's not so much of a problem, I think), bright switch, gain boost/lead switch, has a nice footpedal with it (from most stores), pretty much everything you want from a professional-quality Fender amp. Really surprisingly loud too.
It was actually a limited edition green Hot Rod Deluxe that I played through when I picked out my Gibson CS '59 LP, and I have to say the combination of the two was the best tone I've found anywhere and nothing else has come even close to replicating it, not even other Fender amps.


Yeah it takes pedals fairly well ran a Cusack Screamer V1 in it and that did it fine although it did sound muddy I think it was a while ago so I may have just eq'd wrong. And more recently used a MXR GT-OD which sounded rather decent for foo fighters stuff. And while the gain isn't top notch if you get it done right and have the amp set up so it just breaks up with some hard picking it's a pleasant sounding amp.
#13
what volume do you need?

if you're in the UK, you've got a couple of options.

If you don't need much volume at all (say, home use), a cornell romany or romany plus would be great.

if you need it for gigs, martamp/mjw can make ceriatone clones of fender amps, they may be under budget. I hear good things, but I haven't tried them.

rosewell might also be worth a look, they make fender-style amps, and will make weber kits (of which several are fender clones), but again i should add that I haven't tried them and only know of them because of an advert in the back of guitarist magazine.

Quote by al112987

I really love Fenders, but I hate the HRD, their overdrive is one of the worst I've heard from a tube amp and is, IMO, essentially useless.


LOL, +1 on that.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#14
Quote by Dave_Mc
what volume do you need?

if you're in the UK, you've got a couple of options.

If you don't need much volume at all (say, home use), a cornell romany or romany plus would be great.

if you need it for gigs, martamp/mjw can make ceriatone clones of fender amps, they may be under budget. I hear good things, but I haven't tried them.

rosewell might also be worth a look, they make fender-style amps, and will make weber kits (of which several are fender clones), but again i should add that I haven't tried them and only know of them because of an advert in the back of guitarist magazine.


LOL, +1 on that.
I'm glad someone agrees with me about the HRD. I was seeing so much praise in this thread about the HRD's overdrive that I almost thought I was going deaf.

http://www.rsguitarworks.net/cms2/media/mp3/Anthony4.mp3

THAT is what an overdriven Fender should sound like...
Last edited by al112987 at Jul 25, 2009,
#15
^ yeah, definitely.

the big problem with the HRD's overdrive is that it has a modern amount of gain, but a really loose, vintage voicing. That means, for me anyway, it doesn't have the right amount of gain for more vintage stuff, but doesn't have the right voicing for the more modern stuff.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#16
Quote by al112987
I'm glad someone agrees with me about the HRD. I was seeing so much praise in this thread about the HRD's overdrive that I almost thought I was going deaf.

http://www.rsguitarworks.net/cms2/media/mp3/Anthony4.mp3

THAT is what an overdriven Fender should sound like...
See to me, that's a crap tone.

I have to wonder, when you say you thought it lacked clarity and 'bite', exactly what guitar you were using with it, the cables, the room you were in, whether you'd spent any time with the EQ, etc etc.



As I said before, plugging my LP into one gave me the best tone I've ever found, anywhere. I ended up spending about two hours in the shop's demo booth just fiddling around and playing before I was finally able to pull myself away for long enough to actually buy anything.

I actually recently found out the store still has the exact same amp I used before, selling at £560. I've got them to hold it back for me, once I've finished my Warmoth build I'm gunning straight for that amp.
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#17
I played it using a Stagg les paul copy in a tiny cramped room with a $2 cable with the EQ on 10 for everything and didn't like the sound.



I've also played it in several other contexts, in fact, I've probably played more Hot Rod Deluxes than just about any other tube amp since I started playing guitar, one because one of my closest friends (and the guy I picked up guitar with) used one for several years, and because every single music store around where I live seems to stock them. So I have played them in several stores, at my parents house back when I lived with them in their music room, in numerous practice spaces, on a few stages, with les pauls, strats, pointy metal guitars, with cheap cables and Mogami cables and never once did I ever like the sound coming out of them, and I found none of the problems I ever had with the amp ever came down to overrated factors like cables. Even with bad cables, if the amp doesn't sound good, it doesn't sound good. (not that good cables don't matter but you cannot possibly blame bad tone on cables)

I'm awfully curious as to what you consider good tone, especially if you think the Anthony Steele clip with the R7 was "crap" tone as that sound as always been, to me, the prototype les paul with PAF tone into an overdriven Fender tweed. The HRD is not a bad amp, but there are several things that make its overdrive sound very bad to my ears.
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ yeah, definitely.

the big problem with the HRD's overdrive is that it has a modern amount of gain, but a really loose, vintage voicing. That means, for me anyway, it doesn't have the right amount of gain for more vintage stuff, but doesn't have the right voicing for the more modern stuff.
Yes. That's exactly the problem, the horrible low end on the amp. I love the vintage voicing of a good BF Fender or early Marshall, but the HRD does not do it for me. At all.
Last edited by al112987 at Jul 25, 2009,
#18
Quote by al112987

I'm awfully curious as to what you consider good tone,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7dNaokNhbw#t=2m51s
And for something a touch more mellow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp-tKEm70oI at 3:06 and 5:12 for the full whack.

That's an actual 1959 Les Paul being played through four Fender Tone Master heads into custom cabs. The rhythm parts of the first track goes through one head set to the usual overdriven channel while the solo tone is via a second head, a modded Tone Master that basically had a similar clean solid state recti slapped in. On the second track, the solo tone comes from the modded head with the ss recti turned down (though I don't think it was bypassed entirely) and a Boss SD-1 used as a clean boost instead. For the record, the other two heads were set up for a clean tone and one for use with a talkbox.

A somewhat odd and rare rig, but to me that is 'the' tone. That specific rig and tone is why I literally over night stopped singing and bought a guitar instead. It's not just 'the best Les Paul with Fender amp tone' to me, it is 'the best tone', outright.


I've actually had the privilege of playing my LP through a Fender Tone Master myself and between the two, the Hot Rod Deluxe I'd used previously actually replicated that tone far better. The Tone Master I used was too modern-toned constantly; other Fender tweed amps were too vintage. The Hot Rod Deluxe got the balance exactly right, without any of the weird mods that Richie used on his Tone Masters.



edit:
It's also worth mentioning
Quote by al112987

Yes. That's exactly the problem, the horrible low end on the amp.
See, I think bass is pretty much the worst anything in the world. Bright tone and no more than minimal bass for me.
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Last edited by MrFlibble at Jul 25, 2009,
#19
I love the Cleans on my Classic 30, but maybe it's just me.
You can call me Aaron.


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#20
Quote by MrFlibble
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7dNaokNhbw#t=2m51s
And for something a touch more mellow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp-tKEm70oI at 3:06 and 5:12 for the full whack.

That's an actual 1959 Les Paul being played through four Fender Tone Master heads into custom cabs. The rhythm parts of the first track goes through one head set to the usual overdriven channel while the solo tone is via a second head, a modded Tone Master that basically had a similar clean solid state recti slapped in. On the second track, the solo tone comes from the modded head with the ss recti turned down (though I don't think it was bypassed entirely) and a Boss SD-1 used as a clean boost instead. For the record, the other two heads were set up for a clean tone and one for use with a talkbox.

A somewhat odd and rare rig, but to me that is 'the' tone. That specific rig and tone is why I literally over night stopped singing and bought a guitar instead. It's not just 'the best Les Paul with Fender amp tone' to me, it is 'the best tone', outright.


I've actually had the privilege of playing my LP through a Fender Tone Master myself and between the two, the Hot Rod Deluxe I'd used previously actually replicated that tone far better. The Tone Master I used was too modern-toned constantly; other Fender tweed amps were too vintage. The Hot Rod Deluxe got the balance exactly right, without any of the weird mods that Richie used on his Tone Masters.

edit:
It's also worth mentioning
See, I think bass is pretty much the worst anything in the world. Bright tone and no more than minimal bass for me.
Hm, interesting choice of amp, Jimmy Page used the same amp on the '98 Page/Plant tour. Every time I heard his tone using those they always sounded much more like a Marshall than a Fender. Not that they sound bad, but they definitely have more of that Marshall grind going on.

And I'm not saying that it doesn't have enough bass, I'm saying the bass it does have is too loose and flabby. It farts out too much when you turn it up and is muddled. I'm not into high gain amps with huge low end or anything, but having a stiff and defined low end keeps the bass from being muddy.
Last edited by al112987 at Jul 25, 2009,
#21
Quote by MrFlibble
There are many smaller companies who make great alternatives to high-gain amps liek MEsa or mid-gain ''British'' amps like Marshall and Orange, but when it comes to Fender amps I've yet to find a good alternative. Whatever any other brand is putting out, the Fenders have always been genuinely better, and I'm not just saying that because they have a more famous name slapped on them. I've just genuinely never found a bright, ''American toned'' amp from another company that can match Fender's.

To that end, Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. They go for around £500, 40w valve amp, great cleans, surprisingly useful distortion for most things other than very hard rock and metal (though it also accepts pedals very nicely so that's not so much of a problem, I think), bright switch, gain boost/lead switch, has a nice footpedal with it (from most stores), pretty much everything you want from a professional-quality Fender amp. Really surprisingly loud too.
It was actually a limited edition green Hot Rod Deluxe that I played through when I picked out my Gibson CS '59 LP, and I have to say the combination of the two was the best tone I've found anywhere and nothing else has come even close to replicating it, not even other Fender amps.


I second this wholeheartedly.
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#22
Quote by al112987
Hm, interesting choice of amp, Jimmy Page used the same amp on the '98 Page/Plant tour. Every time I heard his tone using those they always sounded much more like a Marshall than a Fender. Not that they sound bad, but they definitely have more of that Marshall grind going on.
I believe the original intention for them wasn't to compete with Marshall directly, but to provide a tone somewhere in between the stereotypical Fender and Marshall tones, to be an all-round mainstream rock amp. I'm a bit of a nut for them, I've heard some that, like you say, have definitely been more on the Marshall side (I've heard a couple of live recordings of late 90's Page while on one of my Tone Master binges - his definitely was more of a typical ''British'' tone), while I've heard others that have sounded close to Fender Bassman territory. I found some guy online once that was getting nearly Mesa triple recti tones from one. This is actually the big selling point for me, they really deserve their name 'Tone Master'. They're a good base for any type of tone so long as you're prepared to sit down with them and tweak every last thing. Some amps you turn a dial from 4 to 6 and hear no difference, with the tone master you turn it from 4 to 4.3 and you're hearing a difference already. Real shame they stopped making them.

And like I say, the Hot Rod Deluxe is, to my ears, the closest you can get to that same sort of middle-rock tone, especially Richie Sambora's as like I said, he made use of a solid state recti in one of his heads, much like the Hot Rod Deluxe makes use of. The only thing I think it's really lacking is some of the flexibility and of course Custom Shop quality that the Tone Masters had.


Quote by al112987

And I'm not saying that it doesn't have enough bass, I'm saying the bass it does have is too loose and flabby. It farts out too much when you turn it up and is muddled. I'm not into high gain amps with huge low end or anything, but having a stiff and defined low end keeps the bass from being muddy.
Well this is the thing, I bypass all of that and just turn the bass right down low. Crisis averted.


Quote by necrosis1193
I second this wholeheartedly.

I can't remember the last time I made a post that wasn't swiftly followed by you seconding it.
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Last edited by MrFlibble at Jul 25, 2009,
#23
Quote by MrFlibble
I can't remember the last time I made a post that wasn't swiftly followed by you seconding it.


Easily explainable in a few things;

1. I have opinions similar to yours, particularly that a good Fender amp and a 1959 Les Paul is a tone rarely if ever matched.
2. I have virtually no life.
3. I'm too lazy to type up my own paragraphs of my thoughts on the matter and yours are close enough that I don't mind seconding even what I disagree with.
4. I'm a whore for sigging.

I'd say it's more the latter two, but take it as you will.
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#24
Fair enough. Sounds like me in bed. Why do the hard work if someone else will? Laziness ftw.


Oh god I just used 'ftw', kill me.
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#26
I have a '65 Princeton, and it's given me the most beautiful cleans I could ever want.
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#27
I love my Carvin X100Bs clean tones, but it´s a bit loud. It has a very jangly Fender style clean tone with loads of headroom. It also has an extremely over-powerful reverb tank like Fender amps.
#28
Quote by al112987
I
Yes. That's exactly the problem, the horrible low end on the amp. I love the vintage voicing of a good BF Fender or early Marshall, but the HRD does not do it for me. At all.




i also tried the one with the vintage 30 speaker. that helped the loose bass a lot, though i'd point out that it upgraded it from "terrible" to "mediocre". Problem was, it killed the nice cleans. So now you had three mediocre channels instead of one good one (and two terrible ones).

If you like it, mrflibble, that's fair enough. I didn't have a problem with its cleans, it was the other two channels which weren't great. I didn't spend hours eqing it in, but when i figured it sounded like ass i did do my best to fix that with the EQ etc. i actually got a decent (not amazing; decent) tone out of the lower gain overdrive channel once with an SG, i think, with the gain rolled back to almost nothing...
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?