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#1
Should I get a Marshall JCM2000 or a Bugera 6260, replace the 6L6's with EL34's and re-bias the thing (it has a switch for either tube type)?

I am looking for a high gain sound with the characteristics of EL34 power tubes.

Durability is not an issue as I trust Bugera for my needs.
"teh most gains"
#2
It depends on which jcm2000. Even if they might be same series, they vastly differ from model to model
I traded in my Real Books for Robbins and Cotran Pathology Textbooks
#5
Dsl100.

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[quote="'[BurnTheDusk"]']Boss pedals may be built like tanks but I would rather buy a cardboard box that is on my side than pay for a tank that is working against me.
#6
Dsl100.
If you start a reply with: I have never played one but I have heard good things about it! Your opinion is invalid.
#7
bugera are cheap rippoffs of peaveys...marshalls are orignal - and if anything you would want a bugera 333(XXX based) not 6262 btw.

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#8
Quote by metallicafan616
bugera are cheap rippoffs of peaveys...marshalls are orignal - and if anything you would want a bugera 333(XXX based) not 6262 btw.

no, go with the 6262. and what does it matter if it is copying another amp series?
R.I.P. Randy Rhoads
#9
And the Peavey 5150 copyed off of Soldano, Who cares?
You are using the wrong word sir.
Bugera is not a copy, they are an amp inspired by certain amplifiers.
The 333xl for instance is not at all like the JSX.
The only similaritys are a built in noise gate and Thickening switches.
They are tonally different.
The Bugera 333xl is a superb amplifier for metal.
If you were willing to go for it I would HIGHLY recommend.
#10
go with marshall...

bugera is ****, just like behringer... and besides behringer is the owner of bugera...
#12
Marshall all the way
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Amp:
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EVH 5150III EL-34 50w
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#14
[quote="'[BurnTheDusk"]']And the Peavey 5150 copyed off of Soldano, Who cares?
You are using the wrong word sir.
Bugera is not a copy, they are an amp inspired by certain amplifiers.
The 333xl for instance is not at all like the JSX.
The only similaritys are a built in noise gate and Thickening switches.
They are tonally different.
The Bugera 333xl is a superb amplifier for metal.
If you were willing to go for it I would HIGHLY recommend.
First off the 5150 has direct similarities to a Soldano solo, yes, but that's all, the circuitry is all Peavey design, we can actually say that all modern amps are copies of Mesa Mark I because of cascading gain structure. The bugeras are copies, not based off the Peavey circuitry, they copied it, they are close as a Peavey "clone" as you can get, even down to the bias test points that are inaccurate. The bugeras use cheaper components and poorer build quality, but with the same tubes and speakers the 333xl and the JSX are pretty close, the JSX sounds more open and full but I figure that more to do with components.
Quote by Cachao

Johnbryant you are obviously a genius

My Gear
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#16
Quote by Johnbryant
First off the 5150 has direct similarities to a Soldano solo, yes, but that's all, the circuitry is all Peavey design, we can actually say that all modern amps are copies of Mesa Mark I because of cascading gain structure. The bugeras are copies, not based off the Peavey circuitry, they copied it, they are close as a Peavey "clone" as you can get, even down to the bias test points that are inaccurate. The bugeras use cheaper components and poorer build quality, but with the same tubes and speakers the 333xl and the JSX are pretty close, the JSX sounds more open and full but I figure that more to do with components.

Poorer build quality? Have you ever looked inside a Bugera? Here, take a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTbJd5oPBjE
Looks like perfectly good build quality to me.
Also, I doubt Peavey uses high-quality components themselves

That said, I do think the OP would be better off with the JCM if he has the money for it.
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

Bugera Users Militia. We are horrible people. With a sprinkler fetish.
~ BUM: For all things extinguishing

Rackmount Tube Amp Project <<< Updates!
#17
Quote by tim_mop
^bugera are a separate entity from behringer. they only distribute.
except they're made in house at behringer's factory by behringer workers and were designed by uli behringer?

this has already been established, welcome to 2008.

http://www.gearwire.com/media/wnamm-bugeraamps.mov
Last edited by al112987 at Jul 24, 2009,
#18
Quote by Kanthras
Poorer build quality? Have you ever looked inside a Bugera? Here, take a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTbJd5oPBjE
Looks like perfectly good build quality to me.
Also, I doubt Peavey uses high-quality components themselves

then why do Bugera amps break down after a week-month ??
it happened to BigRob91's 6262, it broke down after 2 weeks of use.
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Last edited by WTF!!is a TAB at Jul 24, 2009,
#19
Why does they? C'mon man.. Why DO they...

And even if his was brand new, it could have been part of the old run. They had tons of issues on the old run. The new run, not so much. Even still, you will get a dud from time to time, and that is why there is this thing called a warranty.
#20
Quote by Kanthras
Poorer build quality? Have you ever looked inside a Bugera? Here, take a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTbJd5oPBjE
Looks like perfectly good build quality to me.
Also, I doubt Peavey uses high-quality components themselves

That said, I do think the OP would be better off with the JCM if he has the money for it.
Are you kidding me? You have no idea what perfectly good build quality is. That Bugera looks like a mess inside compared to the Marshall. Everything on the Bugera is PCB mounted, tubes, filter caps, jacks, pots, and I'm not even going to start with the lead dressing in that amp.
#21
Quote by Kanthras
Poorer build quality? Have you ever looked inside a Bugera? Here, take a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTbJd5oPBjE
Looks like perfectly good build quality to me.
Also, I doubt Peavey uses high-quality components themselves

That said, I do think the OP would be better off with the JCM if he has the money for it.

Build quality may not have been the best choice of words, poor quality control and cheap labor is probably better stated, IMO they still do not have "good build" quaility. As far as quality componets Peavey has been know to cut corners to save on cost, that is what they are built around, being people great quality stuff at a great price. The thing is Bugera would have to cut more to bring the amp in at half the price that peavey does, sure making it in china would cut down on the cost, as well as zero time desinging the amp, since they stole peaveys desing, but I doubt they could bring it down that much without cutting a few more corners. Also they were very unreliable when they first started, but to me it seems like the QC is getting better, we are seeing a lot less "my bugera sucks a$$ and blew" threads these days.

TS JCM FTW
Quote by Cachao

Johnbryant you are obviously a genius

My Gear
Custom USA Standard Telecaster
Peavey Triple XXX 212 Combo
Peavey MS412 Cab Celestion G12K-85's
POD 2.0 (the ultimate practice setup)
Guild DV6
Last edited by Johnbryant at Jul 24, 2009,
#22
Quote by eXperiment63
Why does they? C'mon man.. Why DO they...

And even if his was brand new, it could have been part of the old run. They had tons of issues on the old run. The new run, not so much. Even still, you will get a dud from time to time, and that is why there is this thing called a warranty.

nope he said it was a new run...

and i dont pay attention to english class so excuse my bad grammar/vocabulary.
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#23
Quote by al112987
Are you kidding me? You have no idea what perfectly good build quality is. That Bugera looks like a mess inside compared to the Marshall. Everything on the Bugera is PCB mounted, tubes, filter caps, jacks, pots, and I'm not even going to start with the lead dressing in that amp.

Every major manufacturer PCB mounts these days. For example, this Bogner Alchemist:
Linky
edit: and the case in point: Linky

And I've asked BigRob why his Bugera broke down, he still hasn't replied. Could've just been a faulty tube. That's the only issues the newer batches have, they come with horrible tubes.
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

Bugera Users Militia. We are horrible people. With a sprinkler fetish.
~ BUM: For all things extinguishing

Rackmount Tube Amp Project <<< Updates!
Last edited by Kanthras at Jul 24, 2009,
#24
6260 best sounding amp I owned! retube with mesa power tubes, some nos preamps, george L cable's 14gauge speaker cable, 10 band eq + epi lespaul, burstbucker pups+++!peavey wolfgang = total bliss! ****ing rocks!
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Last edited by ksmc at Jul 24, 2009,
#25
I'm looking at the 6260 rather than the 333 because the 6260 has only two volume controls while the 333 has three, gain, volume and master volume.

The two volume 6260 is less complicated and easier to dial in power amp distortion.
"teh most gains"
#26
Quote by Kanthras
Every major manufacturer PCB mounts these days. For example, this Bogner Alchemist:
Linky
edit: and the case in point: Linky

And I've asked BigRob why his Bugera broke down, he still hasn't replied. Could've just been a faulty tube. That's the only issues the newer batches have, they come with horrible tubes.



The Marshall in the link is not "great" Build quality ethier, Tubes, and all Pot are solderd directly to the PCB, there is nothing inharently wrong with mounting Tube sockets and Pots to the PCB, it just makes the amp harder to work on if/when somthing breaks. I having trouble with the Bogner link (Slow internet). PCB is fine it make a complex build, like most modern amp, much easier and cheap to build, as well as repair, could you imagine trying to work on a Mesa Roadster with all PTP wiring, :WTF What I concider a good build quailty when it comes to PCB amps, is all the tube sockets are hand wired off the PCB, and all the Pots are hand wired off the PCB.
Quote by Cachao

Johnbryant you are obviously a genius

My Gear
Custom USA Standard Telecaster
Peavey Triple XXX 212 Combo
Peavey MS412 Cab Celestion G12K-85's
POD 2.0 (the ultimate practice setup)
Guild DV6
Last edited by Johnbryant at Jul 24, 2009,
#27
Quote by mountain2012
I'm looking at the 6260 rather than the 333 because the 6260 has only two volume controls while the 333 has three, gain, volume and master volume.

The two volume 6260 is less complicated and easier to dial in power amp distortion.

It's not hard to dial in power amp distortion.. You just turn everything up
The extra volume control is pretty nice imo, but if you don't like it just have it always on 10 and pretend it doesn't exist.
Choose between the two based on tone, not on volume controls
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

Bugera Users Militia. We are horrible people. With a sprinkler fetish.
~ BUM: For all things extinguishing

Rackmount Tube Amp Project <<< Updates!
#28
Quote by Johnbryant
The Marshall in the link is not "great" Build quality ethier, Tubes, and all Pot are solderd directly to the PCB, there is nothing inharently wrong with mounting Tube sockets and Pots to the PCB, it just makes the amp harder to work on if/when somthing breaks. I having trouble with the Bogner link (Slow internet). PCB is fine it make a complex build, like most modern amp, much easier and cheap to build, as well as repair, could you imagine trying to work on a Mesa Roadster with all PTP wiring, :WTF What I concider a good build quailty when it comes to PCB amps, is all the tube sockets are hand wired off the PCB, and all the Pots are hand wired off the PCB.

Well, what I was trying to say is that PCB mounted is pretty much the norm these days. Altough the amps I linked do have a more spacious PCB making them easier to mod/repair. You'd need good soldering skills and a steady hand for the Bugera. I agree that ideally tube and pots should be chassis mounted but you won't find many modern (non-boutique ) amps that do that.
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

Bugera Users Militia. We are horrible people. With a sprinkler fetish.
~ BUM: For all things extinguishing

Rackmount Tube Amp Project <<< Updates!
#29
^Mesa, Rivera, Orange, Splawn and (some) Marshalls & Peaveys, just to name a few.
Quote by Cachao

Johnbryant you are obviously a genius

My Gear
Custom USA Standard Telecaster
Peavey Triple XXX 212 Combo
Peavey MS412 Cab Celestion G12K-85's
POD 2.0 (the ultimate practice setup)
Guild DV6
#30
Quote by Johnbryant
^Mesa, Rivera, Orange, Splawn and (some) Marshalls & Peaveys, just to name a few.

You have me on the Orange, but aren't Splawn and Rivera boutique?
Mesa is guilty:
linky
Fairly certain the JSX has PCB mounted tubes too, judging from this blurry pic:
linky
I rest my case now. PCB mounting can't be that bad if Bogner does it ffs.
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

Bugera Users Militia. We are horrible people. With a sprinkler fetish.
~ BUM: For all things extinguishing

Rackmount Tube Amp Project <<< Updates!
#31
^but the Alchemist is not a part of the "Boutique" Bogners
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#32
^He wasn't saying they were. The Rectoverb and JSX aren't boutique either, and I know that you know that.
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#33
Quote by Kanthras
You have me on the Orange, but aren't Splawn and Rivera boutique?
Mesa is guilty:
linky
Fairly certain the JSX has PCB mounted tubes too, judging from this blurry pic:
linky
I rest my case now. PCB mounting can't be that bad if Bogner does it ffs.

Note that the Rectoverbs Pots are all hand wired, and I said SOME Peaveys, 5150, JSX, and 3120/Triple X are all PCB mounted, now the Penta, the stuido pro, Sensation, and the Materpeice are all ethier PCB with hand wired pots and tube sockets, or all PTP. Please don't take me the wrong way, I'm not saying that PCB mounted amps suck, I play one, and really I think we are beating a dead horse we both agree that they simply don't make amps like they use to.
EDIT:As far as boutique is concered, I really have a hard time drawing a line and saying what is boutique and what not. IMHO I feel that any amp that uses a "mass" produced method of building amps crosses a line of no longer boutique. That means any amp with PCB is not a Boutique amp in my opinion, not that they are bad or any thing, but when I think of a boutique product it needs to be all hand made, so that means all PTP wiring, no PCB allowed. Many will disagree with me on this, but any company is useing PCB ther amps, they are at least to a degree being mass produced, again I not saying its bad, but that is my opinion. So my opinion is Rivera and Splawn are not really boutique amps, they may be boutique quality and have boutique componets, but the main part of the amp is mass produced.
Quote by Cachao

Johnbryant you are obviously a genius

My Gear
Custom USA Standard Telecaster
Peavey Triple XXX 212 Combo
Peavey MS412 Cab Celestion G12K-85's
POD 2.0 (the ultimate practice setup)
Guild DV6
Last edited by Johnbryant at Jul 24, 2009,
#34
I have never minded Marshall pots being soldered straight to the board. They have always taken great care in making sure everything is super sturdy. Versus other companys with the technique of pot to board. Below are some examples.

Example..

Marshall has there pots connected to the bar and then the bots run through the chassis and bolts to it. So its fully protected from bumps and bruises..





Versus say Fender..



The reason i'm stating this is Bugera pots are not actually bolted to the chassis much like the Fender. The exception is atleast Bugera put the pcb behind the pots. But that still doesnt stop the pot from breaking the pcb or disconnection from a side to side movement. So after looking at both of these pictures which would you trust..
Last edited by IbanezPsycho at Jul 24, 2009,
#35
Quote by al112987
except they're made in house at behringer's factory by behringer workers and were designed by uli behringer?

this has already been established, welcome to 2008.

http://www.gearwire.com/media/wnamm-bugeraamps.mov


Wait, where in time did something went wrong that made us go back to '08?

Oh... If you have the money for the Marshall, go with the DSL50. If not, the Bugera will still be a good deal and I'd go for with the 333(XL) If I were you.
Ibanez RGA 8 (Dimarzio D Activator 8)->Rocktron Hush->Engl E530 preamp->Marshall 9200 poweramp->Marshall 4x12 closed back cab w/ G12t75's
#36
Quote by Kanthras
It's not hard to dial in power amp distortion.. You just turn everything up
The extra volume control is pretty nice imo, but if you don't like it just have it always on 10 and pretend it doesn't exist.
Choose between the two based on tone, not on volume controls


But simplicity does matter. I try to get a nice blend of power amp and preamp distortion and one more knob just adds to the fiddle factor.

Sure, I can dial in the perfect sound in my basement, but when I'm on stage or at a different sized venue that one extra knob makes things exponentially more complex.
"teh most gains"
#37
Quote by scream92

bugera is ****, just like behringer... and besides behringer is the owner of bugera...


You're immature and contributing nothing to the conversation. What's wrong with Bugeras? They make decent tube amps that are incredibly durable and sound good.

Gibsons are considered overpriced and ****ty by some, but does that mean Kramer's are overpriced and ****ty because they are owned by Gibson? Not at all, Kramer currently makes some guitars for remarkably good value that don't sound at all bad for the price.

It's this **** that encourages bandwagons and brand loyalties which are complete garbage and only cause internet stereotypes to form.
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MXR M-108 10 Band EQ
#38
Quote by soul.power
You're immature and contributing nothing to the conversation. What's wrong with Bugeras? They make decent tube amps that are incredibly durable and sound good.

some might agree with that and some might not
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#39
Quote by WTF!!is a TAB
some might agree with that and some might not


Correct some of there design techniques put them on my none durability list. Also when you have to follow an instruction manual to fix the issues from the factory to make it more durable. That again adds to the facts stacked against them.

Theres just so much you can do with the budget they set out to make them things at. Nothing wrong with that, just dont claim it to be something its not..
#40
Quote by K!nj!
Wait, where in time did something went wrong that made us go back to '08?

Oh... If you have the money for the Marshall, go with the DSL50. If not, the Bugera will still be a good deal and I'd go for with the 333(XL) If I were you.
Because people who owned Bugeras constantly insisted that Bugera was an entirely different entity from Behringer for the longest of times, and I thought that that video which was released after NAMMM last year would have finally put that to rest. Apparently it hasn't and people still think that Bugera has nothing to do with Behringer outside of "distribution."
Quote by soul.power
You're immature and contributing nothing to the conversation. What's wrong with Bugeras? They make decent tube amps that are incredibly durable and sound good.

Gibsons are considered overpriced and ****ty by some, but does that mean Kramer's are overpriced and ****ty because they are owned by Gibson? Not at all, Kramer currently makes some guitars for remarkably good value that don't sound at all bad for the price.

It's this **** that encourages bandwagons and brand loyalties which are complete garbage and only cause internet stereotypes to form.
I'm not saying that the guy isn't immature but this is a horrible argument. Completely different comparison because Gibson does not make Kramer guitars. Behringer makes Bugeras. What is "extremely durable" about a Bugera? I've never heard of an amp that has caused as many issues as Bugeras.
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