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#1
my guitar teacher explained modes to me very briefly and said that modes just switch the root note. is this true?

I don't take lessons from him anymore so i can't ask him.
Last edited by madshatter at Jul 24, 2009,
#5
It's not completely wrong, for instance: the Minor scale is a mode of the Major scale with a different root note. By changing the root not of the C major scale to A, we get the Minor scale, same notes, sounds different.


(theory buffs, if im wrong be gentle.)
#6
its half of the truth.
GENERATION 10: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
#7
See, the thing that gets most people, is when they hear: modes are just the major scale starting on a different note, they immediately think that whenever they start on a different note they will be playing in the mode. That's not correct. You can't have a progression in C major and be playing D dorian or G mixolydian. You will be playing C major all the time because the progressions tonal centre is C. That's what catches most people out.
#8
Quote by madshatter
my guitar teacher explained modes to me very briefly and said that modes just switch the root note. is this true?


Why don't you ask him to explain it in detail before you accuse him of being wrong?

What you have is a "very brief" explanation, and we don't know the exact words your teacher used.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 24, 2009,
#9
Depends how he ment that the root note switches. If he ment that the root note switches places at different mode, than yes, but if he ment that every different mode that you play has their own root, no that's not true.
#10
Quote by Jason_Dionne
Depends how he ment that the root note switches. If he ment that the root note switches places at different mode, than yes, but if he ment that every different mode that you play has their own root, no that's not true.


Actually, each mode has it's own root note (like any scale).
shred is gaudy music
#11
The root note changes, but you don't use the same finger pattern, but you do continue on up the fretboard with the major scale intervals.
#12
Quote by madshatter
modes just switch the root note.
The word in bold font makes the statement inaccurate. It's like saying, "To drive from Philly to London, you just need to build a bridge across the Atlantic Ocean."

Ask your teacher to clarify his remark. If you dislike his response, use the various resources on this website: my sig, the Crusade articles, the MT mode sticky, and making a thread about the subject. (Do not make a modes thread until you can ask a specific question. A vague/broad question gets a URL as a response, the URL of my sig, the Crusade articles, and/or the MT mode sticky.)

Edit: The Crusade has mistakes in it; do not read it until they have been corrected (we'll let you know when/if that happens).

but if he ment that every different mode that you play has their own root, no that's not true.
Eh?
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at Jul 24, 2009,
#13
Quote by bangoodcharlote
The word in bold font makes the statement inaccurate. It's like saying, "To drive from Philly to London, you just need to build a bridge across the Atlantic Ocean."

Ask your teacher to clarify his remark. If you dislike his response, use the various resources on this website: my sig, the Crusade articles, the MT mode sticky, and making a thread about the subject. (Do not make a modes thread until you can ask a specific question. A vague/broad question gets a URL as a response, the URL of my sig, the Crusade articles, and/or the MT mode sticky.)

Eh?



I'm not sure if the crusades are correct about the modes. I haven't read all of them, but in part seven he says something like "if you figure out the progression is in the key of G you can use G major or any of it's modes to solo with"

which is exactly the kind of shit we have to correct all the time.

it may have been an accident that he said it that way, I haven't read the rest of the articles, but since I read that I've stopped recommending the crusades articles.
#14
"If the key of the song is discovered, in this case, G, then you can use the G major scale and it's related modes to solo over it. In more detail, G Ionian, A Dorian, B Phrygian, C Lydian, D Mixolydian, E Aeolian (Natural minor), and F# Locrian."

Fuck me; I've been telling people to read that? We had to fix the CoF in the lesson in my sig, once. Perhaps we can go through the Crusade and fix it.

For now, MT Crew, don't recommend the Crusade.
#15
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Fuck me; I've been telling people to read that? We had to fix the CoF in the lesson in my sig, once. Perhaps we can go through the Crusade and fix it.

For now, MT Crew, don't recommend the Crusade.


God damn it. How did we miss that before?

This gives me more motivation to finish my stuff on the basics. I posted it in the UG Contribution section. Feel free to brain storm topics that need to be addressed in there for the sanity of the regulars in MT.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#16
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Fuck me


Will do!

Quote by bangoodcharlote
Perhaps we can go through the Crusade and fix it.



dunno, I was reading through the comments on that lesson and saw JoshUrban explaining to a noob asking about it. I also explained to him that he was wrong. If he doesn't agree to it then what?


edit: also, I pointed this out in the chat thread a while back. don't think anyone really payed it much attention.
Last edited by The4thHorsemen at Jul 24, 2009,
#17
In that case, we'll write a new article. We can't tell people to read incorrect information and then get annoyed when they don't get it.

Quote by The4thHorsemen
Will do!
Yeah...I say that every so often.
#18
Quote by bangoodcharlote
In that case, we'll write a new article. We can't tell people to read incorrect information and then get annoyed when they don't get it.

Yeah...I say that every so often.


If you need any people to help with contributions for an article, let me know. I'd be glad to help.
#19
Feel free to write some stuff and PM it to me. If I get enough from you guys and I get some time to contribute and/or organize it, I'll put something together.

Really, though, for years, we've been talking about writing a collaborative article.
#20
Okay. Is it just about modes, or is it supposed to be a crusade-esque article that covers the whole shebang?
#21
Whatev...I'll look at anything I'm PMed.

I would like to write (more-or-less) a textbook that covers basic music theory from the perspective of a blues/rock/metal guitarist. However, I would try to put together anything useful. How we procede from here depends on how much people PM me. If I get some good stuff, we could assemble "The Crew" and discuss who should write what.
#22
Quote by bangoodcharlote


Fuck me; I've been telling people to read that?




That's actually hilarious when you think about it.
shred is gaudy music
#23
Likewise, I can't believe I missed that bit about modes - however the the early stuff regarding intervals and harmonising still seems pretty sound. It does seem like the author is another of those who got waylaid by the "modes are shapes" crap, the Guitar Grimoire really does have a lot to answer for.

It's a pity that a couple of ill-informed, throwaway comments undermine the rest of that good work.
Actually called Mark!

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Last edited by steven seagull at Jul 25, 2009,
#24
Damn it......my guitar grimoire book is wrong...the crusades are wrong........where in the hell can I learn the correct info for modes?
#25
Quote by srob7001
Damn it......my guitar grimoire book is wrong...the crusades are wrong........where in the hell can I learn the correct info for modes?
The 'Modes, before you ask' sticky at the top of the page
.
#26
Yes the Crusades is wrong at the modes; I'm pretty certain we already discussed that within the MT regulars.

Why you think I wrote 2 articles on modes like ages ago.

Though it needs some better writing, but cba to rewrite it.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
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The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jul 28, 2009,
#27
Quote by bangoodcharlote
In that case, we'll write a new article. We can't tell people to read incorrect information and then get annoyed when they don't get it.

Yeah...I say that every so often.
Eastwinn already started doing that - he's posted the first bit in the MT suggestions thread for comments...
#28
Quote by Nietsche
The 'Modes, before you ask' sticky at the top of the page


Are we sure that ones correct becuase I've already wasted quite a bit of time learning something that is apparently wrong....from 2 seperate sources.

DAMN YOU MODES!!!!!!!
#29
Quote by srob7001
Are we sure that ones correct becuase I've already wasted quite a bit of time learning something that is apparently wrong....from 2 seperate sources.

DAMN YOU MODES!!!!!!!



It's correct cause I wrote part of it.

Lol, but seriously, yes it's accurate.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#30
Quote by xxdarrenxx
It's correct cause I wrote part of it.

Lol, but seriously, yes it's accurate.


Great!!! That's what I needed to know.

I printed up all the Crusade articles and took them home, mainly as a refresher, except for the Modes part...that would all be new to me since the Guitar Grimoire book is incorrect.

Hopefully the Modes sticky will shine the light and finally help me understand modes.
#31
Quote by srob7001
Great!!! That's what I needed to know.

I printed up all the Crusade articles and took them home, mainly as a refresher, except for the Modes part...that would all be new to me since the Guitar Grimoire book is incorrect.

Hopefully the Modes sticky will shine the light and finally help me understand modes.



I made vids on my youtube channel which are linked with the modes lesson.

It might be hard to grasp, because of my poor english writing skills (+ the setting in which I wrote it, which was direct writing down of my train of thought).

If you have questions on the subject, you can pm.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#32
Quote by xxdarrenxx
I made vids on my youtube channel which are linked with the modes lesson.

It might be hard to grasp, because of my poor english writing skills (+ the setting in which I wrote it, which was direct writing down of my train of thought).

If you have questions on the subject, you can pm.


Will do!

I already watched all your Modes videos, which are great BTW...very helpful in letting me know the mood of a certain mode.
#34
Quote by rockinrider55
Why are modes such an important topic here?


Cause alot of guitarists get into modes prematurely and develop misconceptions.... and then argue about them here.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 28, 2009,
#35
Because without them you wouldn't know how to expand out of the 1st position of the major scale.

At least that's why they are important to me.
#36
Quote by srob7001
Because without them you wouldn't know how to expand out of the 1st position of the major scale.

At least that's why they are important to me.
But if that's how you're looking at it you aren't really using the modes at all now are you?
#37
Quote by rockinrider55
Why are modes such an important topic here?

I really don't know, i remember when I was learning to play I used to think modes were this tool that would vastly open up my playing.. i figure most people think the same way, really most of the stuff we listen to is simply in major/minor
#38
Quote by srob7001
Because without them you wouldn't know how to expand out of the 1st position of the major scale.

At least that's why they are important to me.


Modes have absolutely nothing to do with "expanding out of the 1st position of the major scale".
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#39
Quote by Peaceful Rocker
I really don't know, i remember when I was learning to play I used to think modes were this tool that would vastly open up my playing.. i figure most people think the same way, really most of the stuff we listen to is simply in major/minor


I think this is pretty much why. All sorts of experienced guitarists in big bands make instructional videos where they talk about modes and how great they are and beginners assume that modes are the one things that's missing from their belt. Most beginners seem to think that in order to be considered an advanced-super-awesome guitarist you need to know how to tap at insane speeds, sweep pick, and play modes. So, right after they are done with those first two they come here and try to tackle modes with little of the prerequisite knowledge or they Google modes and find some shapes that incorrectly represent them (and then they come in here and spread the misconception like a disease or something ). It doesn't help that a lot of guitar books that you could pick up at Borders or Barnes & Nobles also have wildly incorrect information about modes. A lot of experienced, high-priced guitar teachers don't know what they're talking about either and who would want to doubt them? The guitar "teacher" at my school (He doesn't really teach, he just watches us play and is there if you have a question. He also organizes the recitals.) tried to explain modes to me once and he was under the impression that the mode you were playing changed depending on the chord you were playing over. I didn't know any better at the time and if I didn't come here I would still think that.

rockinrider55: You are correct. I think srob7001 has been misinformed too.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#40
Quote by rockinrider55
But if that's how you're looking at it you aren't really using the modes at all now are you?


Well that should tell you I know nothing about them.....which is why I am in this thread trying to find a good source on info for modes.
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