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#1
Disclaimer: If you have nothing to add to this thread except for immature posts, **** off. If you have something to say, come on in and say it.

I've been thinking about this for awhile. I assume most of use here are between 14-25, or something like that, and live in Canada, America, England, Austrailia etc., so you will know what I am talking about. What I want to talk about if, is counterculture dead?

Think about it. Back in the 60s, there was a huge counterculture. Ignoring all the bull**** hippie novelty crap, like tie-dye fridge magnets etc., there was a huge movement of people dedicated to change. The hippies were against capitilism and Vietnam, the civil rights movement was against racisim, etc. (This is of course a broad generalization). Throughout the following decades, people have emerged to fight against what is wrong, whether it is gay-lesbian activisim, black artists against pregudice and racism (ie: Spike Lee, Public Enemy). Again, a broad generalization, but the point remains.

Rebellion, in its traditionly aethstetic form, has become entirely commercialized. This is unarguable. How many stores today sell sweatshop-produced shirts that bear emblems like "Sex, Drugs and Rock n'Roll"? How many twelve and thirteen year olds walk around today with the idea in their heads that they are "rebels", because they have purchased the latest Guitar Hero or know the latest Metallica song? Sorry if this is vague or exageratted (not to mention misspelled) but I think most of you get the point.

Today out generation (14-25, or whatever) faces extreme commercialism and capitalism everyday. We face wars, terrorism, poverty, sickness and the often unethical practices of our collective goverments. But is there anyone out there among our age group doing anything? We have an amazing oppurtunity to try and change things, especially with the Internet as a resorse, yet I don't see any action. It seems that most of us are far too worried about getting the latest Hollister shirt or getting a new Ipod. Even if you don't, your classmates do.

I tried my hardest not to sound pretentious about anything, sorry if I do. But does anyone have thoughts?
#2
Speak for yourself. I have a friend who goes to almost every protest/riot. Don't be so defeatist. There's counterculture everywhere - it built what we have today.
#3
The counter culture of today is being republican. seriously the dems are taking over with their "Green" bs.
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#4
Shut up about Capitalism/Socialism, you sound retarded.

I buy real clothes.

I fought in a war, don't tell me I didn't do anything.
#5
Yeah, I see where you're coming from and I agree for the most part. Though, that said, I don't like the idea of rebellion for the sake of rebellion, so most forms of counterculture to me are pretty pointless anyway.

I don't have much to add, but I get why you'd fell like this.
#6
As long as there is some sort of culture, there is a counterculture. I don't think I can identify an overall trend in what the counterculture seems to be, but there IS always an opposition to any foundation of ideas.

Atheism may be seen as a counterculture these days?
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#7
I agree with you, TS. I really do, I was thinking about this myself recently; especially how what was considered the counterculture around 40 years ago is now almost the established culture.

I rebel by reading books and doing my homework.
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#8
Quote by IwantaTele
The counter culture of today is being republican. seriously the dems are taking over with their "Green" bs.


How perceptive of you.

Yes, the counter culture is dead. There is hardly any point discussing this any more either as it is now so deeply ingrained in peoples' heads that it would take lifetimes to reverse it.

Art and music, however, are two effective mediums for spreading belief and conveying messages. This has been a highly used method in the past, and while the practice is waning somewhat there are still artists who genuinely manage to get their points across.
Last edited by raincoffin at Jul 25, 2009,
#9
Quote by darkstar2466

Atheism may be seen as a counterculture these days?


No, I'd say it was 15-20 years ago. Now it's quite established, in Britain at least, especially in the centre-left middle classes, who dominate the mainstream culture of out country.
Quote by DrewsGotTheLife
yea man, who ever doesnt like pantera or think they suck doesnt like metal, end of discussion, they changed the freakin world n made history, so don't be sayin they suck, have respect, same goes for machine head n lamb of god cuz their good too
#10
I live in an area with a significant Sri Lankan population, and during the war, one of my classmates would always go protest and try to get others involved. As long as you have something you feel strongly about, you're going to fight for it. If people don't have anything to protest (or don't feel strongly enough about to protest) there's no point.

If they do, people will start complaining about how protesting is mainstream and that we need to start sucking up to governments to become individuals.
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#11
Quote by IwantaTele
The counter culture of today is being republican. seriously the dems are taking over with their "Green" bs.


I agree with you sir.
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#12
Quote by Karvid
I live in an area with a significant Sri Lankan population


Sri Lanka?
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#13
So you want us to do something huh??

Tell me what do you want to do, other than taking some points where I mostly agree, and I will give you my help.
#14
Quote by DirtyMakik
Sri Lanka?

No, but my neighborhood has quite a few Sri Lankan families for some reason, and they congregate with people from other areas somewhere to protest.
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Karvid is sexy

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Why is it that some folks quote praise from other members in their sig lines?
Its lame.
#15
I agree with your point about the commercialization of the rebel notion. I've noticed many people who act rebellious because it's the cool thing to do nowadays, and many more who are simply anti-mainstream for no reason, and reject anything popular. However, there is undoubtedly still a counterculture around somewhere, but it makes sense that it isn't as easily identified as it was in times past. There's probably an even greater counterculture out there, but I happen to be unaware of it, since I am most definitely not a part of it (no matter how much I insist that I am).
#17
There's no real "massive counterculture" anymore.

In the Western world, at least, there's too much diversity in thoughtforms, style, etc. to ever REALLY nail down any one umbrella "counterculture". It was bound to happen. If it wasn't for all of the different ideals formed by the generation of the last 100 years or so, we wouldn't be where we are.

And I love it. There's not one single, overwhelming form of culture for there to be one massive counterculture. There are tons of small-scale cultures, with their own countercultures, and so on.

Cultures can intermingle, and there isn't as much isolation as in the past. It's a true, proper melting pot of style and culture.


I just kind of rambled there, but still. It makes sense to me. There's not one big counterculture because there isn't one big "mainstream culture", and I like it that way.
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#18
I agree with kids being sold rebellion. Its just a way of "controlling". (before you people start getting pissy and jump down my throat read the rest.) I mean think about it if your a kid and want to rebel against everything, and are tricked into thinking your rebelling by buying some useless crap your being controlled. Everyone is afraid of how much power the average person really has.
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#19
I'd like to make a quick point. By "counterculture", I don't just mean hippies and peace signs and all that. I also don't mean individual deviance, of which there is plenty these days. I mean organized, powerful opposition to percieved unethical practices (Ie: American Constitutinal racism, of which was thankfully defeated).
#20
Quote by Grindar
Shut up about Capitalism/Socialism, you sound retarded.

I buy real clothes.

I fought in a war, don't tell me I didn't do anything.

Thank you! I am truly greatful for your sevice to your country


i get what you are saying, alot of times countercultures can be harder to spot, unlike the hippie movement that was enormous
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#21
Quote by Clutch32192
Thank you! I am truly greatful for your sevice to your country


i get what you are saying, alot of times countercultures can be harder to spot, unlike the hippie movement that was enormous


I had no idea what your OP was about, I just saw something about military stuff and Hollister and wanted to chime in
#22
Lets start a revolution!

If I lived in the 60's I would definatly be a hippie.

We really need to re-introduce LSD.


also, have u heard of discordians? Google it. Have u heard of the "The Yes Men"?

The yes men act like there apart of a company repretsintative and they hoax the news ppl into thinking there really part of a company.

look them up, seriously.
wat
Last edited by ForrestS at Jul 25, 2009,
#23
Quote by ForrestS
Lets start a revolution!

If I lived in the 60's I would definatly be a hippie.

We really need to re-introduce LSD.


I'm doing my bit
#24
I see what you're saying, and honestly I like to believe I'm part of the small counter culture in my area, I have strong beliefs that go against most modern mainstream beliefs, and same with some of my friends. It's still around, just not as much. Too many sheep.
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#25
I'm sure that back in 60s, a lot of people were far too worried with getting the latest leather jacket or bell-bottomed jeans, it's just that people don't remember that stuff because it was so pointless.

I think todays counter-culture exists mostly in the poorer areas of the world where the people have been oppressed for a long time (Middle East, Asia, Russia, Eastern Europe).
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#26
Quote by fallenangel20
There's no real "massive counterculture" anymore.

In the Western world, at least, there's too much diversity in thoughtforms, style, etc. to ever REALLY nail down any one umbrella "counterculture". It was bound to happen. If it wasn't for all of the different ideals formed by the generation of the last 100 years or so, we wouldn't be where we are.

And I love it. There's not one single, overwhelming form of culture for there to be one massive counterculture. There are tons of small-scale cultures, with their own countercultures, and so on.

Cultures can intermingle, and there isn't as much isolation as in the past. It's a true, proper melting pot of style and culture.


I just kind of rambled there, but still. It makes sense to me. There's not one big counterculture because there isn't one big "mainstream culture", and I like it that way.


I agree with you to a point. Culture is very diverse today, which I agree is a good thing. However, our individual countries are still unified by our individual goverments and laws, which is what the movements of the past that I mentiaoned (hippies, lez-gay, etc.) fought against.
#27
Quote by IwantaTele
The counter culture of today is being republican. seriously the dems are taking over with their "Green" bs.


really tho. i could agree

people look down on you, sneer, and treat you like you're an ignorant fool if you voice opposition to any "green" program or environmental regulatory action. as if only a moron could find fault in promoting economic recovery and growth over saving the environment in a time of economic crisis.

i'm a rebel because i think for myself and don't blindly believe what the tv tells me.
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#28
Well i live in the South of the US (Atlanta, Georgia), and since i live in the so called "bible belt," atheism is definitely counterculture down here, and while i am at it, So is being a true metalhead...but i digress... Down here it is all about God and there's no way beyond it. All of my friends are christian, going to church EVERY Sunday and basing their decisions on religion. To me, religion is a hindrance of free will, and to me is illogical.

There is no evolutionary difference between monotheistic religions and polytheistic religions. One is not more evolved or makes more sense than the other, and for that matter there is no difference between lets say Native American beliefs and Christianity in that one does not have more validity than the other...so how can you say there is only one God and he exists?

Also, God had to come from somewhere, he can't create himself, because he wouldn't exist to do so. Therefore, he cannot be the ultimate creator because everything has a beginning, even God. Since he was not there before said beginning, he is not omnipotent, ergo not a God. Who designed the designer?


PS: sorry for making this a religious topic, i had to get this off my chest
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#29
Quote by slayer1516
I'd like to make a quick point. By "counterculture", I don't just mean hippies and peace signs and all that. I also don't mean individual deviance, of which there is plenty these days. I mean organized, powerful opposition to percieved unethical practices (Ie: American Constitutinal racism, of which was thankfully defeated).


Well, then it all depends on what each person thinks of as unethical. Going from your statement, if I were someone who was a strong anti-abortion advocate who lived in a place where abortion is legal, I would be the counterculture, assuming I made myself heard. However, a situation could exist where the pro-life protesters are the counterculture as well.

And, of course, there are so many issues that people speak out for and against now that it is hard to see any clear way to sort people into "conformists" and "rebels". I'd actually say more people that I know are of the "conformist rebel" variety (I started writing a song about that last year, I should really get back to work on that).

EDIT: To the person above me, I'm from the South as well, and I agree that atheism is certainly rare in most areas, but I'm not sure if it's really a counterculture, any more than liking a certain type of music is a counterculture. It's just a preference. Now, if society was discriminating against atheists in a major way (which they may do sometimes), and you were fighting against that, you might be part of a counterculture, but personal preference is just that, nothing more.
Last edited by rootbeerjuice at Jul 25, 2009,
#30
Quote by cheez1492

people look down on you, sneer, and treat you like you're an ignorant fool if you voice opposition to any "green" program or environmental regulatory action. as if only a moron could find fault in promoting economic recovery and growth over saving the environment in a time of economic crisis.


Whether or not you believe in the programs the government institutes you should feel some responsibility at least to make sure this world remains habitable.

I do not agree with many of the supposedly "green" measures put in place by the government, but I realize the value of making sure there is a world to live in hundreds of years from now.
#31
i get what you are saying, alot of times countercultures can be harder to spot, unlike the hippie movement that was enormous

But look how badly they got treated. I mean when they protested we started shooting at them. WE STARTED SHOOTING AT A BUNCH OF HIGH A** HIPPIES! THE MOST UN-THREATENING KIND OF PEOPLE! No wonder counter cultures are so hidden. They don't want to be found because they are afraid of the repercussions. We don't have as much freedom and diversity as you might think. We need to stop being scared into conforming and start changing the sh*ty situation we are in or its going to become something that no one will ever be able to change.
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#32
Quote by breadstick
I'm sure that back in 60s, a lot of people were far too worried with getting the latest leather jacket or bell-bottomed jeans, it's just that people don't remember that stuff because it was so pointless.



Absolulty. There were probablly many trendsters back in the 1960's buying into the hippie movment just becuase it was popular. However, that doesn't change that fact that there was a real movement dedicated to fighting war etc. It would be interesting if we could find a UGer who was around in the 60s to comment on this.
#33
2 months ago i saw the Grateful Dead and all the real legit hippis. these guys next to me go "where did all these hippis come from, i never see them day to day." "hippis aren't dead! they never died, theyve just been living in the woods and decided to come out cuz the Dead are in town".

i thought it was funny.

anyway, i think in order to identify counter culture, we must know the meaning of culture and what is our current culture. the 60's was rebelling against the white picket fence, job, wife, and 2 kids 50's mentality. what would one look like today?
#34
I was thinking about this awhile ago. Aside from the world's finances and the fact humans are destroying the world for profit (which are things that are hard to 'rebel' against, as there isn't a perfect reason), cultures have come together and integrated quite well in this century - people are reasonably tolerant of others' viewpoints. In the near future I can see the 'punk' thing to do will be hating on previous generations for making the world a nice place. Otherwise the rebellion of today is whether you agree with your peers interests or not :|
#35
Quote by rootbeerjuice
Well, then it all depends on what each person thinks of as unethical. Going from your statement, if I were someone who was a strong anti-abortion advocate who lived in a place where abortion is legal, I would be the counterculture, assuming I made myself heard. However, a situation could exist where the pro-life protesters are the counterculture as well.

And, of course, there are so many issues that people speak out for and against now that it is hard to see any clear way to sort people into "conformists" and "rebels". I'd actually say more people that I know are of the "conformist rebel" variety (I started writing a song about that last year, I should really get back to work on that).



Exactly. Good point. But thats why I said "Percieved". There is no common unity amongst the people of western society of what is wrong or right-and even is there is, there doesn't seem to be any movement against what they percieve to be wrong.

For example, I live in Canada, where we are currently watching Canadian soldiers getting killed overseas in a war. Whether that is wrong or right doesn't matter. What matters if that either no one is against the war they are fighting in, or no one is speaking out against it (if anyone is speaking out against it, I havn't heard anything).
#36
Quote by Grindar
I had no idea what your OP was about, I just saw something about military stuff and Hollister and wanted to chime in

my second part was to the original poster...not u...srry for the confusion
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#37
Quote by slayer1516
For example, I live in Canada, where we are currently watching Canadian soldiers getting killed overseas in a war. Whether that is wrong or right doesn't matter. What matters if that either no one is against the war they are fighting in, or no one is speaking out against it (if anyone is speaking out against it, I havn't heard anything).


I live in Canada, I fought in that war, and I don't think you understand how it works.

All of the men under me (I was an officer), had their jobs because they couldn't get work elsewhere, and this was before this stupid "recession".

Barely anyone cares about wiping out terrorism/establishing democracy, it's just their job. If you took that away from them, you'd have a bunch of poor, homeless people, with no way to gain work experience.

I openly speak out against the war, and all I did was tell people where to go, climb phone poles, and occasionally drop a remote controlled bomb onto caves.
Last edited by Grindar at Jul 25, 2009,
#38
trying to write this i keep changing my mind.

there are many different "cultures" or cliques as they would be called in the high school world. but there is still a single one thats considered the "popular" one. even though overall it might not contain the most people, its still the one that's not nessecarily desired, but respected as the top, most powerful, and dominating one. if that makes sense.

and theres always people that are standing up for what they believe in, whether or not it goes along with the dominating culture, just not in such large ways as the 60's and such.

(example- probably 30 or so kids at my high school of about 800 had duct tape over their mouths one day, with some word written on it. i dont remember what word. but they were displaying their vegetarianism)
#39
Quote by IwantaTele
The counter culture of today is being republican. seriously the dems are taking over with their "Green" bs.


HAHAHAhahahaha

hahahaa


haha
ha


ha
#40
Quote by groove.thang.
trying to write this i keep changing my mind.

there are many different "cultures" or cliques as they would be called in the high school world. but there is still a single one thats considered the "popular" one. even though overall it might not contain the most people, its still the one that's not nessecarily desired, but respected as the top, most powerful, and dominating one. if that makes sense.

and theres always people that are standing up for what they believe in, whether or not it goes along with the dominating culture, just not in such large ways as the 60's and such.

(example- probably 30 or so kids at my high school of about 800 had duct tape over their mouths one day, with some word written on it. i dont remember what word. but they were displaying their vegetarianism)


Vegetarianism/veganism is one of THE most retarded things in the world.
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