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#1
I'm planning my first build, so any advice would be welcome.

Its going to be a flying V like alexi/RR. The build by Mintsauce is awesome, so maybe a little similar. I really like the clear/unpainted finish, maybe becuase Im not good at painting

So my plan is to buy the wood and then draw it out, becuase I guess any design is going to change depending on what I can buy.

Im going to start ordering bits tomorrow, maybe there is some good weather left. Im planning to finish this quite fast, so within a month, or two at most.

Going to be a through neck, I dont like bolt on that much.

25.5" scale. Same as my chinacopy.

*Possibly* a bigger cut out on the lower wing to reach the high frets - so wing starting at bottom of fretboard, and a smoother neck heel.

Pickup only at bridge.

24 frets


I was looking through Tonetech, CS, Luthiersupplys and Touchstone, LS and TS are quite close to me (30 miles and 10 miles). So the question is what do I buy for the neck:

1) Im guessing for a through neck I will want ~2" thick?

880 x 100 x 50mm Maple - Tonetech (same as Mintsauce)
850x100x55mm Braz. Mahogany - Touchstone
1200 x 100 x 55 mm Rock Maple - Touchstone


2) neck angle/ headstock angle. I should be ok working out the other stuff like bridge position and fret slots.

3) Bridges. I guess I want either fixed and simple/cheap, or floating. Ibanez bridges seem nice, but I guess cant buy on there own?
Something I noticed is that all bridges cost £££££££££££££.


thanks
Mark
Last edited by Kramdra at Aug 8, 2009,
#2
You'' want aproximately 40 x 2 x 3 " wood, so 1020 x 50 x 80 mm for a neck through blank, I would personally make a laminate of 3 woods, e.g maple / wenge / maple, for stability in a neck through.

What do you want to know about neck angles and headstock angles? (they are very different things you know?)

I wouldnt cheap out ona bridge, good tremolos are expensive, if they are too expensive then get a hipshot hard tail or a tonepros or gotoh TOM, but choose


As with everything in guitar building please choose the specs you want and then find out how much it costs, dont comprise because x bridge is a little bit cheaper than y bridge or w.e just save up untill you have everything perfect.




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#3
I see your also in the UK I looked at most of the online shops but its not too useful. I think if I visit the two near ones they might have more in the shops.

Id like to do that with the neck, your RG build looks very awesome. LS sells wenge but looks like they only have 6mm inner splices, nothing thicker :O

Im thinking this would make the truss rod *very* easy? - I could cut it from the inner with a saw and chisel before gluing the peices together?

What would look awesome is 2x of 5 different splices :O but that would be near £100 just for the neck, + gluing hell for a first build

so I was thinking the 48x4x2" maple bass blank from CS.


I might spend ~£100 on wood, inc body wings and fb, more if I can get something nice.

thanks
Mark
#4
pictures




I went to touchstone woods today. They had some nice mahogany body peices I almost bought but I realised its not long enough, 22" too short :O
But I did get a nice fretboard I decided I will slot it myself and I might go upto 27 frets, becuase why not? no neck pickup btw.
Last edited by Kramdra at Dec 3, 2009,
#5
I would advise luthier supplies as your first port of call for wood, David will custom cut you a slap of wenge, the peice in my build was done by him, it cost me but he does have thicker stuff if you just phone up and ask.

Personally I wouldnt buy from craft supplies, they've f**ked up a few of my things, I wouldnt get wood from them unless you can actually go down there and look at it.


Traul ebay for wood thats what I do, this peice would be prime for you, cut the 6" side in half and you will have two 3 x 2.75 x 41 " maple laminates, stick a bit of wenge in the middle, and you have a lovely neck thru blank.

I would message him, make sure there are no knots in it, he can plane you up a peice of his stock to custom requirements as well, if he is the guy I have used in the past (which I think he is) his stuff is good and resonable.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MAPLE-HARDWOOD-KILN-DRIED-PLANED_W0QQitemZ120442703882QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Building_Materials_Supplies_Carpentry_Woodwork_ET?hash=item1c0af1d00a&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A30




Quote by dogismycopilot
Absent Mind, words cant express how much i love you. Id bone you, oh yea.

Quote by lumberjack
Absent Mind is, as usual, completely correct.

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Id like to make my love for Neil public knowledge as he is a beautiful man
#6
And for hardware, have a look at WD Music, AllParts or ABM then let me know what you need
Quote by Cal UK

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#8
if you have some idea of shipping time and cost I might be interested :O but I guess it goes by boat, since its very heavy and boats are slow :p

Ill call LS tomorrow and try visit their shop, I really like the 3 piece idea, but I think it may put me *very* far over ~£100 I was planning for all the wood.


Anyone know what these are like?
http://www.allparts.uk.com/online-shop/allparts-guitar-amp-parts/bridges/guitar-bridges/tremolos-modern/gotoh-510t-fe1-fulcrum-tremolo-steel-saddles-2-p-3333.html

or http://www.wdmusic.co.uk/product/Deluxe_Fulcrum_Tremolo_WDDLXTRC#

thanks
Mark
Last edited by Kramdra at Jul 28, 2009,
#9
www.axesrus.co.uk

www.axetec.co.uk

www.chguitars.co.uk

Man, I think you'd be better off buying some maple neck laminates from here:

http://www.craft-supplies.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdCat.cgi/Electric===Guitar===Necks,2,,,Electric

Those maple neck blanks from Tonetech require a LOT of work to get them into a position for neck making, and a 3-ply neck would be much stronger. I'd be careful about ordering a figured wood from Craft Supplies, but you can't really go wrong with plain maple.

You could get two 1" laminates, and one 1/2" laminate for £24 to make your neck.

Also, do you have a router?
#11
TS did you see my suggestion for maple? Its pretty cheap...

Quote by Absent Mind
Traul ebay for wood thats what I do, this peice would be prime for you, cut the 6" side in half and you will have two 3 x 2.75 x 41 " maple laminates, stick a bit of wenge in the middle, and you have a lovely neck thru blank.

I would message him, make sure there are no knots in it, he can plane you up a peice of his stock to custom requirements as well, if he is the guy I have used in the past (which I think he is) his stuff is good and resonable.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MAPLE-HARDWOOD-KILN-DRIED-PLANED_W0QQitemZ120442703882QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Building_Materials_Supplies_Carpentry_Woodwork_ET?hash=item1c0af1d00a&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A30



As far as gluing the neck goes, I do 3 and 5 peices at the same time, its pretty hectic to clamp though.




Quote by dogismycopilot
Absent Mind, words cant express how much i love you. Id bone you, oh yea.

Quote by lumberjack
Absent Mind is, as usual, completely correct.

Quote by littlemurph7976
Id like to make my love for Neil public knowledge as he is a beautiful man
#12
I just got back from luthier supplys
I am lucky since now it is *pissing* with rain, and the boot leaks so :O
I really cant see the houses opposite like 50 meters away there is so much rain.
I guess I wont be able to start on it tomorrow :/ end of summer.


Your suggestion was good, but Im very happy that I went to LS.

Talking to him for nearly an hour, and he also flattened the wood for me, awesome. Price was good, less than the website.

So now have 90% of it - bridge, body, neck, FB, truss rod.
need: pickup, nut, fretwire, tuners
I need to read on pickups, I have quite a lot of winding wire somewhere, 36swg I think is that any good?





The body is ash, and its much nicer than the stuff I looked at yesterday. The reson for the cuts in it is some mistake, someone cut too far for a strat shape. Theres also a tiny crack but its outside the body shape, but its perfect for what I want.
56" long!!!!! 7.5" wide, 47mm thick

The neck pieces are maple, with a 10mm thick wenge. Its the same width as truss rod so that will be easy I wont have to route any channel.

Did I say its perfectly flat and ready for glueing?
Last edited by Kramdra at Dec 3, 2009,
#14
hmm not too sure :O but so far this is £170.. to keep this under £200 in total *was* my plan
Wenge was about £10
but together the neck was £75. Its still 3x more than a neck blank from CS but this better and its going to save me a billion hours of work with it all ready to glue

I want to work on the plan now but I have no idea how the scale works on rhino4 :O I was hoping I just click twice and tell it the distance, but it wants a ratio?
Last edited by Kramdra at Jul 29, 2009,
#15
Reference length / drawing measurement = scale factor..

So, take something you know the distance of IRL.. like a bridge post spacing of 74mm. Then, measure the same distance on your drawing... say it's 120mm

74/120 = 0.617

Scale your drawing with a scale factor of 0.617 (61.7% of its original size) to get the correct size.
#16
thanks! you wouldn't think I done a level maths :p mostly forgotten

I wouldn't mind having your rhino cad file just to check mine is not going to end up giant or child sized :p

Rhino is very good but confuses me farrrr tooo much, but I found I can do the same thing in sketchup, I find it a lot easyer to use.

I will put the sketchup file here once I get enough detail on it to be useful

Also bridge arrived today
Last edited by Kramdra at Jul 30, 2009,
#17
**************************************************

confused as hell


I was planning to cut the large wing as the red lines, but thats not going to fit, probably weaker at the point, and I guess far more wastefull. BUT the glueing edge would be perfect flat.

So green way it is, is this the same as you did mint?
this will give me ~21"x7" of ash spare :O


Thanks
Last edited by Kramdra at Dec 3, 2009,
#18
I could be wrong, but I think you'd be better off making the larger wing in two pieces, with the grain running parallel to your neck wood.

I don't know why, but the idea of having the grain running into the neck like you've drawn it scares me. Hopefully, someone else can shed some light on that.
#19
I also found that the crack in the ash has GROWN it was about 6" now its ~25" (of 56", but its in a more usefull part!). I say it was, but Ill admit I didnt look at it too much when purchased.
Im hoping if I *pour* wood glue into it, and clamp it will never be a problem again


Not much update today, but I would really like more opinions on the above.

thanks Mint that is something I would not have thought of, and to me Im not sure it would matter, but 100% everyone Ive spoke to said to make the grain look parallel or it will be fail :/

So today I saw a friend for advice on this build. He does a lot of stuff with wood and built an 880kG boat not very long ago :O


I started on my *proper* plan today, with exact stuff for bridge, neck, angles and drill holes.
heres the file, which will get updates as I get further.


did I mention the diagram for my bridge, here http://www.axetec.co.uk/brst05%20diagram%2080.jpg
It sucks. This diagram is 100% fail, dont rely on diagrams :O
BUT the bridge is awesome, no complaints about the actual bridge.

I have measured the middle of the intonation adjustment, is that the correct line to use as the distance to the nut? It might sound like a stupid question but IIRC the high strings will be exact but the low strings are always longer, so maybe it needs to be biased high? as there is only +-4.5mm.

Picture of crack:



So I know have a better camera, in that I dont need to install evil scary drivers that samsung forces on you, which also overwrite all video codecs :O
Last edited by Kramdra at Dec 6, 2009,
#20
Adjust the high E forward to about 1/16 of an inch of it's fullest travel.

Then position the bridge so that the high E saddles intonation point, is above the line marked on your body.

I suggest you also wind the other saddles back a touch (incrementally), before stringing up to re-leave stress while intonating the other strings.
Quote by Cal UK

...that's what Skeet always says anyway and he's a sex god.


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I support Shay van Fani
I can supply WD Music, ABM and AllParts products to UK builders at DISCOUNTED prices!
#21
no real updates but I done more planning including these photoshops

<edit> more photpshoppy, and planning to cut out body today. Tomorrow Ill buy more stuff and glue neck </edit>
Last edited by Kramdra at Dec 3, 2009,
#23
having the wood grain following the direction of the wing is actually better than the grain flowing paralel with the strings:
Quote by experienced luthier on project guitar
Now, I remember reading some posts from a pro builder on another forum many years ago about this very subject, he said he did it that way on purpose, and now I know why, because the very long piece of wood creates a much lower, richer, deeper resonant tone than any wood done in a typical centerline style could give, unless the body was 24" long, which no body is.

Believe me or not, the difference is HUGE, and completely overrides the graft job.

If I make any more V's, they will ALL be done like that from now on.
#24
Quote by guitarcam123
having the wood grain following the direction of the wing is actually better than the grain flowing paralel with the strings:


Really? That doesnt sound right. If the wood grain is angled toward the neck like that its closer to a "short grain to long grain" join which is weaker than if it was "long grain to long grain" which is how it would be if the grain was going parallel with the neck. At least thats how I was taught.
#25
^He didn't say anything about strength, only about that elusive "tone", y'know...

Also, TS... I must say it again- an Alexi/RR is not a Flying V. But good luck with getting everything lined up. I think I will be following this.
#26


More stuff the block is graphite, not sure if Ill use it for the nut.


I got tru oil for the finnish

opinions please! should I use grain filler? Ill do some tests on some scrap later
Last edited by Kramdra at Aug 3, 2009,
#27
I was going to glue the neck together but wasnt happy with the laminates, they have a noticeable taper at the ends from the jointer/planer.

So Im going to plane them flat, but I dont really know how to use planes yet. Also the jointer plane has a 50 year old, resharpened and curved blade, that is probably useless..

metalwork is easier :O
#28
First real update

And I *almost* buggered it up :O

but I think it will be ok

Anyway, this is a guide how NOT to glue your first neck laminate:

1) do not use a plane on surfaces that are resonably good, when your not experienced enough to know the plane blade is *crap* and curved. Jointer planes should *not have curved blades*
This was fixed with some effort with a straight edge and a scraping knife.

2) Go buy clamps. You can never have enough. This I skipped.

3) dont leave a clamp in the car, you need it.

4) when assembling glued surfaces, dont suddently realise that TWO of your clamps are too small, even for a neck!!! :/

5) Then reliase you only have three *real* clamps.

6) turn bench vice upside down and use as a clamp :O

Anyway, it should be good. The faces were ok and I used the workbench as an additional clamp, I wedged some cardboard in there to add some points



I guess I should leave it atleast 24 hours? or more? using titebond.
This stuff starts to dry fast. the bottom piece moved slightly, but after a few seconds there was no moving it back :O

I decided its better that I dont cut out my truss channel first, from the wenge, instead I'm going to use a chisel when its dry. Wenge should be very nice for chiselling
Last edited by Kramdra at Aug 5, 2009,
#30
I hope you're going to use more clamps than that when gluing your fretboard.
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#31
wenge is a hard wood and reasonable hard to work with, so chiseling won't be all that easy...

Why not use a router?
#32




enough for two with some spare, they both have grain parallel with the neck. Took me 2 hours :O to cut it out with a ripsaw. still need to cut out the point for the second upper wing.

The first parts were cut ~10mm oversize, maybe I should keep it bigger?


Not all hardwoods are hard, wenge is easyer than pine I think..its a nice wood to carve. Im not sure what it will be like now its absorbed glue and sandwiched in a neck, but it should still be quite easy by hand.
My router is twice as old as me, needs new cable, bit, lots of wd40 and no idea if it still works... probably best to buy a new one if I need it, but Id rather spend more on the build

BUT on the other hand, I do have a nice hand drill (£7 argos, but its AWESOME, has been abused a lot) and some milling bits. I done a test in pine and it cuts quite well doesnt jump.
Last edited by Kramdra at Aug 7, 2009,
#33
If you are in the UK as you appear to be, check out Aldi. Yeah, I know, but I have a router from there that is the same as a Ryobi, 3 year warranty, £20. They also do a set of bits (about 12 bits) for £6, all good stuff too (not brilliant, but not dangerously poor).
Quote by Cal UK

...that's what Skeet always says anyway and he's a sex god.


Member of the official GB&C "Who to Listen to" list


I support Shay van Fani
I can supply WD Music, ABM and AllParts products to UK builders at DISCOUNTED prices!
#34


gluing the wing

I spent *all* day planing
Its still about 10mm oversize on the top and back :O
#35
Im starting on the neck now, Anyone know where I should locate the truss rod (start/finnish?)
what I mean is my TR has a 1" hex nut, should this be before or after the string nut?



Upper wing done



the glue line is visible but Im happy with it. I had more clamping pressure on the bottom face, so that looks better - hard to judge when its covered in glue.


Im doing the TR cavity next, then I guess cutting the width of the neck, tapering then shaping. Also the headstock but I haven't planned that yet.


<edit> ack Looks like scarf joint needs to be first. hmm...
Last edited by Kramdra at Aug 10, 2009,
#36
Quote by guitarcam123
wenge is a hard wood and reasonable hard to work with, so chiseling won't be all that easy...

Why not use a router?


I do not belive you have ever had any experience using wenge



By far the nicest wood I have tryed to carve. Took me 10 mins or so.


Maple however is horrible to work. I keep getting tear out while planing even following the grain.
#37
Locate the truss rod by placing the tip of the hex about .1" past the back of the nut. Then mark where the end of the truss rod is on your neck. That is the length you need for your truss rod channel.
#38
Thanks, Im guessing you mean 0.1" nearer to the headstock? or the body?
And is it ok that the truss rod ends past the body? Or do I need a shorter one?

Also scarf joints - which side should the scarf be glued?
Fretboard side


OR

back of neck

?


Ive cut my neck down, so now I just need to do the headstock before I can start shaping it
The offcut from my neck is actually big enough for a bolt on neck, so I might practise with that first.


Thanks
#39
Yes, place the end of the hex 0.1" past the nut on the side of the headstock. The "front" of the nut is against the finger board, where the scale starts, and the "back" is closest to the headstock and tuners. The end of the truss rod going past where the neck first meets the body is just fine. As long as it does not stick past the end of the fret board.
#40
I would just keep the trust rod where it is in your picture above TS, so that the adjustment nut starts at the nut.

The scalf joint can be done either way that you shown in those links, I prefer the first version as it looks nicer, the 2nd version can be covered up with veneers either side of the headstock, but if you arent doing that choose the first version (personally I dont like the look of scalf joints at all but prefer the first ).




Quote by dogismycopilot
Absent Mind, words cant express how much i love you. Id bone you, oh yea.

Quote by lumberjack
Absent Mind is, as usual, completely correct.

Quote by littlemurph7976
Id like to make my love for Neil public knowledge as he is a beautiful man
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