#1
So my band is looking for a new producer since we're not satisfied with the quality / ethics of our current one and the topic of producing our own music came up.

I'd really like some advice regarding this.

Here's a little more info on the situation.

The gear we currently have includes professional amps, guitars / basses, drum kit, and lambada/toneport/POD recording interfaces.

Obviously we would need pro tools. and some microphones (which ones)
but is there anything else we would need?
A higher quality presonus?
Would we need a high quality audio card?
Mixers?

So would it be in our best interest to learn to use pro tools with protools for dummies and other tutorials and invest in some recording gear?

Or are we better off paying someone to do all of this for us every time we go and record songs?

And could you recommend some good microphones and whatever else we would need.

Would it be best to buy one of those drum mic packs on musicians friend or just buy everything separately?

How much can we expect to spend on recording equipment?


********
Oh and if you recommend stuff please keep in mind that we want to quality of our finished songs to be better than it currently is. An example of the current quality can be found here ( www.myspace.com/konquered )
#2
For high quality digital recordings a computer with LOTS of memory and RAM with a firewire interface. Either Cubase or Pro Tools is a good idea I have a Behringer 2 input firewire but you'll probably need lots of inputs for each band member and kit miking.

Shure SM57 and 58s are the way to go for recording guitar amps. For vocals a good quality condenser such as a Behringer B-2 or a Sterling ST55.

As far as costs, the computer and firewire plus all the mics will probably amount to at least $3000. As far as quality goes, the more you spend the better the quality.

Hope this helps
#3
Shure sm57's are the standard for micing guitar amps and snare drums. They also mic cymbals and toms fairly well too. Shure beta 52's are the standard for micing bass amps and bass drums.
MM Stingray
MIA P Bass
MIM Jazz Bass
GK 700RB-II Head
GK 410SBX Cab
Sansamp 3 Ch. DI
Crybaby Bass Wah
Bass Big Muff
DD3 Delay

MIA Strat
Nashville Tele
Martin 00015M
Hot Rod Deluxe
Big Muff
DS1
Hendrix Crybaby Wah
#4
What about something like this http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Shure-Drum-Mic-Package?sku=270263
It has a shure 57 and beta 52 so that would have us set for the guitar, bass, and drums.

What about vocals?

and how much RAM are we talking.

what about any other gear such as mixers, presonus, PA's, monitors?
Anything else like that that we would need?

and why fire wire?
Last edited by xMetalCoreKingx at Jul 28, 2009,
#5
It might be hard recording a drum set with only 4 mics. The beta 52 will record the bass drum and one of the 57's will be for snare drum only so that leaves you with only 2 sm57's to record the toms, high hat and oher cymbals. You could get away with it by placing one sm57 in bewtween the high hat and snare and then place one hanging above the center toms/ crash cymbal/other cymbals and then place another sm57 hanging above the floor tom and ride cymbal. This is all assuming your drummer is using a standard sized drum set. The sound won't be perfect but it'll be decent. It would be better if you got a few more sm57s.

For vocals I'd reccomend a shure sm58. I'd get atleast 1 more extra sm57 to record the drum set better as well. All the mics will run you up to about 600 dollars.
MM Stingray
MIA P Bass
MIM Jazz Bass
GK 700RB-II Head
GK 410SBX Cab
Sansamp 3 Ch. DI
Crybaby Bass Wah
Bass Big Muff
DD3 Delay

MIA Strat
Nashville Tele
Martin 00015M
Hot Rod Deluxe
Big Muff
DS1
Hendrix Crybaby Wah
#6
Okay man, let's look at it this way. Figure out how much this is going to cost to buy all this gear for one time, and have it sitting around for a long time, until you need more "real" recordings. After doing that, look up the cost of just going to to a studio, and using their gear, instead.

Protools and all this gear is going to be REALLY expensive, man. You're going to be investing a lot of money into this.

Figure, eventually someone in your band will either leave or quit, or the group will break up. Then, what to do with 3 grand worth of gear? Selling it on eBay and splitting it evenly seems viable, but it's not always that simple. Greed and immaturity will almost definitely get in the way.

If you're going to spend money, don't spend money on something that you will have to resolve with ridiculously high tensions.
"If you're going to try, go all the way. Otherwise don't even start..."
Charles Bukowski
#7
The most important thing to remember is you can't just buy all the gear and figure it out in a few days!
With a little bit of knowledge you'll have no problems getting everything recorded reasonably well. But mixing is very different. Unless someone's willing to put in the time and patience required to become a half-decent producer, you're going to end up having wasted a lot of money. My top tips:


1) Pro Tools= waste of time and money.
Don't buy it for the name - at your level it's not the best choice for a home studio. Stick to software DAWs. I'd say Sonar is the most accessible pro-level softwre.

2) You need a condenser mic.
An SM58 will not cut it for studio vocals. Nor will SM57s work for drum overheads. Two dynamic mics and two condensers is what I'd be aiming for, though if I could only choose one or two mics I'd go for condensers every time.

3) Monitors are very important.
That's where the bulk of your money should be spent. If you can't afford proper monitors, make sure you constantly try the mixes through different speakers to get an idea of the overall sound.

4) A poor room = poor quality.
Finding the right location will help greatly. If the room you record in is too small/bright/reflective, you'll hear it in the recordings. The more you can deaden the room, the more room you'll have to work with vocals etc. Ghetto fixes include hanging blankets around the room on mic stands, and using large pieces of thick foam around the mic to reduce reflections.


Also, your computer specs really aren't as important as you'd think - 1GB-2GB ram and any Dual Core processor will give sufficient results unless you're using lots of virtual instruments (which you shouldn't need).
Last edited by kyle62 at Jul 29, 2009,
#8
Quote by BreakingBnj
Okay man, let's look at it this way. Figure out how much this is going to cost to buy all this gear for one time, and have it sitting around for a long time, until you need more "real" recordings. After doing that, look up the cost of just going to to a studio, and using their gear, instead.

Protools and all this gear is going to be REALLY expensive, man. You're going to be investing a lot of money into this.

Figure, eventually someone in your band will either leave or quit, or the group will break up. Then, what to do with 3 grand worth of gear? Selling it on eBay and splitting it evenly seems viable, but it's not always that simple. Greed and immaturity will almost definitely get in the way.

If you're going to spend money, don't spend money on something that you will have to resolve with ridiculously high tensions.


Relax man, we've been together for over a year and pretty much write a song every month. And to be fair about it we'd be spending the money in the band budget that we've made from gigs and not our own personal cash.
#9
Quote by xMetalCoreKingx
Relax man, we've been together for over a year and pretty much write a song every month. And to be fair about it we'd be spending the money in the band budget that we've made from gigs and not our own personal cash.

I'm quite relaxed, lol.

You didn't mention this earlier. All I got was a vibe that you were sort of jumping into buying all these gear, and I wanted to give a precaution is all.
"If you're going to try, go all the way. Otherwise don't even start..."
Charles Bukowski
#10
Hire a producer. It takes years to get a grasp on how to make excellent sounding recordings and mixes. Just mic'ing up a drum kit can be endlessly complicated, as you have so many frequencies you want to capture, a few you don't for each piece, and tons of phase cancellation to worry about.
As mentioned above, a proper studio is expensive. Like, tens of thousands of dollars, expensive. You're going to need at the very least the mics listed above, a computer, the software, a proper soundcard, a mixer, some pre-amps if the mixers' suck, soundproofing material for the studio (which is an art in itself, as the idea isn't merely to keep sound from getting out and disturbing the neighbours, but having a room that actually sounds good), a few compressors (you can use plug-ins for mixing, but you'll need some real ones for tracking)....
Get the picture?
#11
Quote by koslack
Hire a producer. It takes years to get a grasp on how to make excellent sounding recordings and mixes. Just mic'ing up a drum kit can be endlessly complicated, as you have so many frequencies you want to capture, a few you don't for each piece, and tons of phase cancellation to worry about.
As mentioned above, a proper studio is expensive. Like, tens of thousands of dollars, expensive. You're going to need at the very least the mics listed above, a computer, the software, a proper soundcard, a mixer, some pre-amps if the mixers' suck, soundproofing material for the studio (which is an art in itself, as the idea isn't merely to keep sound from getting out and disturbing the neighbours, but having a room that actually sounds good), a few compressors (you can use plug-ins for mixing, but you'll need some real ones for tracking)....
Get the picture?


I see. Well thanks for that. You've convinced me that self producing is not the way to go. At least not until i can establish a generous amount of disposable income.

But on average, what would be a good price for someone to record/produce about 10-12 songs?
#12

But on average, what would be a good price for someone to record/produce about 10-12 songs?


Most places work in terms of time spent in the studio, not results. I'd say that you can expect to get three songs recorded/mixed in an 8 hour day (it seems stupidly little, until you realise that you can easily spend four hours, or longer, setting up the drum kit alone even for a quick recording). That will set you back between £150-£250 a day at a small studio.
#13
I was about to move this to the Riffs and Recordings forum, but it has swung back into 'Musician Talk/Bandleading" territory.

Here's an article on my studio site that might be helpful:

http://greenroomrecording.now-here-this.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemid=48

From a different part of the site:

1. How much time should I book?

Hopefully you have read my advice before booking. With that in mind, if you are making a demo to give to clubs for bookings, or a personal record of what your project sounded like at a certain time, then you will obviously not sweat too hard nor too long over too small a detail. Assuming a certain level of preparedness, I would allow a day for 2-3 songs. Some bands do more. If you want to release your recording for sale, then you'll want to spend more time and make it better. The end result is worth it... to a point. After a certain amount of time, you can keep chipping at it, but it won't get much better. Assuming a certain amount of preparedness again, I would allow two days for a 2-3 song demo. Some bands have taken longer.


Part of your "how much will it cost?" question is about studio rates. The other part is about how much time it will take. That information above is quite important.

Some studios will charge by the song. Then it comes down to "How much time are THEY willing to spend sweating over how small a detail?" You can bet that if you're laying out $200 per song or whatever, that you're not going to be spending a huge number of hours on it.

Whether it is money that the band earned through gigs, or if it is from your own pockets, it's still your money. You want to spend it wisely either way. Otherwise, you're throwing away the proceeds from *everyone's* hard work!

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.