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#1
Joel v. RIAA

This guy is being sued for over a million dollars by the RIAA. Rather than settle for a few thousand out of court (like thousands of others have done before him), he has decided to fight back in court. The trial began July 27, and today he finally is taking the stand.

Really interesting article/story.

Good luck Joel.
#3
If this guy had 4chan on his side, he'd definitely win.


EDIT: Seriously though, I'm glad someone is taking a stand against the monolithic music fascist that is the RIAA. The penalties imposed on file sharing far exceed any harm the act actually has. Though I personally don't get my music from digital sources, this is simply ridiculous.
Last edited by thewho65 at Jul 30, 2009,
#4
''but we will tweet as much as possible''

I can't read a news article without twitter being involved some how these days

i hope this guy wins.
but i bet he doesen't


DIEDIT: there are no winners in a 4chan war ^
#5
Finally. Someone with the balls to stand up to the RIAA, something I wish I had.

You have my Iranian grandmother wielding a bazooka, Joel.



:JoelSalute:
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#6
yeah, good for this guy. The punishment is so astronomically bigger than the crime it's ludicrous. It would be like suing someone the same amount for shoplifting. They just want to make an example out of this guy, which is not what the legal system should be used for.
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#7
Quote by thewho65
If this guy had 4chan on his side, he'd definitely win.


i might have respect for 4chan if they sided with a just cause, the record industry needs a major overhaul.


Edit: I just read through the thread and people dont seem to realise what he is being sued for.
He didnt just take music, he then distributed it. this is why the sum of money is so large. it's not the downloading, its the uploading and seeding, and allowing others to download. its like stealing someones music and then copying it and handing it out en mass.
I still side with him but you should at least realise whats going on.
Last edited by stephen_rettie at Aug 1, 2009,
#8
That guy has some guts.
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#9
I hope this gets more publicity; a huge amount more. Even if he doesn't necessarily win, if most of the world actually know about this - and a vast amount of people do have a strong opinion about it - then I think a hefty blow will be struck against the RIAA.

Go Joel!
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#10
The music industry is so paranoid these days, like he shared a couple songs with a couple friends (from the looks of the article).

Did he sell the music for his own gain?
Was he stealing the music?

They make it seem as if he killed Kurt Cobain, then claimed it was his music!!

Kinda stupid if you ask me, they are probably just picking on the guys who are just sharing music rather than the guys who are distrubing it all over the world for free.

IT IS a problem when people share a whole bunch of music with other people, but to just share with friends? That is like me letting my friend read my library book and the library sueing me $1000 for him having it!!
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#11
FUCK. FUCK. FUCKITTY FUCK.

I'm sick of this goddamn RIAA. I want to see it crumble and burn.

*really angry*

When I release my album, it will be free to download and cheap to buy a CD or vinyl of. I swear.
Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
Last edited by darkstar2466 at Jul 30, 2009,
#12
Quote by ChucklesMginty
I hope someone brings up these points.


They will, don't worry. He's got a Harvard law team on his side; I have a lot of hope for this.
Quote by DrewsGotTheLife
yea man, who ever doesnt like pantera or think they suck doesnt like metal, end of discussion, they changed the freakin world n made history, so don't be sayin they suck, have respect, same goes for machine head n lamb of god cuz their good too
#14
The thing is, the RIAA and labels are just digging themselves deeper. They're just running further and further in the wrong direction. Their prospects have been long dead, but they refuse to change. They can't let go of their old business model. Good for us though, so by all means music industry, keep at it. Run yourself right into the ground.
We're only strays.
#15
Kudos to him. I hope he raises some fair points on it.
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#16
Convo I had with my girlfriend.

___________________________


(12:58:25 PM) headbangerbuggy Reading.
(12:58:33 PM) *her username* Reading what?
(12:59:00 PM) headbangerbuggy An article on this guy who is going against the Recording Industry and Association of America.
(12:59:30 PM) headbangerbuggy They're suing him for like, millions of dollars for doing what we do.
(12:59:34 PM) headbangerbuggy Sharing music.
(12:59:35 PM) headbangerbuggy And.
(12:59:39 PM) headbangerbuggy It makes no sense.
(12:59:45 PM) headbangerbuggy And he's lucky enough to actually get to fight back.
(12:59:49 PM) headbangerbuggy He has a whole team of lawyers.
(12:59:57 PM) headbangerbuggy And he's in court, which never happens.
(1:00:06 PM) headbangerbuggy The RIAA always wins before it's not even a case.
(1:00:14 PM) headbangerbuggy He's the second person in history.
(1:00:26 PM) headbangerbuggy And the most likely to win. Though I don't know how likely that is.
(1:00:57 PM) headbangerbuggy And think about it.
(1:00:58 PM) headbangerbuggy Like.
(1:01:05 PM) headbangerbuggy If the punishment is supposed to fit the crime...
(1:01:15 PM) headbangerbuggy They download BECAUSE they have no money.
(1:01:19 PM) headbangerbuggy And yet...
(1:01:24 PM) headbangerbuggy people are being sued for millions?
(1:01:26 PM) headbangerbuggy And...
(1:01:31 PM) headbangerbuggy one cd is ~13 dollars US.
(1:01:37 PM) headbangerbuggy But if you got caught doing it..
(1:01:44 PM) headbangerbuggy You'd be sued for 2 million.
(1:01:59 PM) headbangerbuggy And besides, the stupid people are always like.
(1:02:05 PM) headbangerbuggy 'The artists need to get paid!'
(1:02:09 PM) headbangerbuggy Yeah... not how it works.
(1:02:10 PM) headbangerbuggy Lol.
(1:02:18 PM) headbangerbuggy THey get paid by going on tour and selling merch.
(1:02:20 PM) headbangerbuggy Not CD's.
(1:02:27 PM) headbangerbuggy Then you have to ask those stupid people.
(1:02:48 PM) headbangerbuggy 'Ok, well.. if the artists get the money from the CD sales, where does the record company get paid from?'
(1:02:54 PM) headbangerbuggy 'Uhhhhhh... well... they share?'
(1:03:13 PM) headbangerbuggy No band or musician gets paid from CD's if they have a label.
(1:03:22 PM) headbangerbuggy if that was all i took, nobody would be touring.
(1:03:25 PM) headbangerbuggy it*
(1:03:54 PM) headbangerbuggy So all of those people are sympathizing for huge corporation who makes billions a year in revenue.
(1:03:56 PM) headbangerbuggy it's ****ed up.

_____________________

I just didn't wanna retype that all. But anyways. I took out her username in a few places, left in the beginning for context. But yeah. Thoughts?
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Last edited by headbangerbuggy at Jul 30, 2009,
#17
I'm not for this Joel guy, but he is getting sued for way to much; but If you don't do the crime, you don't pay the extortionate amount of money.
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#18
Quote by texico11
And then if it gets big everybody just 100% downloads/shares it and your stuck trying to fit gig times around your Tesco day job >_>

Until you've made a serious mark on the industry, most people are unable to get a record contract that gives them a dent share of the profits anyway. The majority of your money comes from concerts at that point.

New artists can expect the recording company to pay to make their record (usually), and give them enough of a paycheck to quit their day job for a while. They're not going to get rich, by any means. Depending on the contract, they may not even get a share of any licensing deals for commercials. What htye do get though is a company giing their records out to radio stations and promoting them. If the company thinks they're marketable.

So if the company thinks you're 'the next big thing', and you're smart enough not to sign any stupid contracts, they can help you immensely. For most artists, a recording company is basically just an agent that pays your travel expenses and takes a bigger share.
#19
Quote by texico11
And then if it gets big everybody just 100% downloads/shares it and your stuck trying to fit gig times around your Tesco day job >_>


Music is not/never will be my source of income, so for people like me it won't matter. I can understand artists being concerned with their copyrights being infringed. However, artists also know that very little money from album sales reaches their pockets. They make their money from shows, merch, and royalties.
Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#20
Didn't UG take a stand to the RIAA before? In the form of a threatening letter to Zappp to shutdown the site, returned by an angry article on the site? Or was that bull and I'm way behind the times?


Regardless, good luck to him.
#21
Quote by headbangerbuggy

(1:03:13 PM) headbangerbuggy No band or musician gets paid from CD's if they have a label.
(1:03:22 PM) headbangerbuggy if that was all i took, nobody would be touring.
(1:03:25 PM) headbangerbuggy it*


Incorrect. For example, The Beatles stopped touring altogether from 1966 onwards. I'm pretty sure Abbey Road, The White Album, Sgt. Pepper's, Revolver and others were fairly profitable for the lads at the time and still are.
THE FORUM UPDATE KILLED THE GRADIENT STAR

Baltimore Orioles: 2014 AL Eastern Division Champions, 2017: 75-87
Baltimore Ravens: 2012 World Champions, 2017: 3-3
2017 NFL Pick 'Em: 52-39
#23
Quote by stephen_rettie
i might have respect for 4chan if they sided with a just cause, the record industry needs a major overhaul.


They've busted pedos and cat abusers.
#24
Quote by necrosis1193
Incorrect. For example, The Beatles stopped touring altogether from 1966 onwards. I'm pretty sure Abbey Road, The White Album, Sgt. Pepper's, Revolver and others were fairly profitable for the lads at the time and still are.


Times have changed, dude. Like... more so than just a little bit. If they make ANY money from sales, it's astronomically small compared to what it should be anyways.
Quote by Twisted Magnum
I'd throw a Marshall MG at him while he succumbs to tone killing gain.

Quote by King Krapp
Spend all $200 on M&M's, then find a friend with an acoustic, and fill the body with them. Why? Because you can.

#25
Quote by freddaahh
They will, don't worry. He's got a Harvard law team on his side; I have a lot of hope for this.


Not just any harvard law team - Charles Nesson. This man is absolutely brilliant. I dont know if any of you have read A Civil Action (great book) or seen the movie (starring John Travolta), but Nesson is one of the attorneys in it. He is arguably one of the best in the nation. Nesson on Wikipedia

btw, here is his Twitter and his website
#26
Quote by maXterbat0r
Didn't UG take a stand to the RIAA before? In the form of a threatening letter to Zappp to shutdown the site, returned by an angry article on the site? Or was that bull and I'm way behind the times?


Regardless, good luck to him.


EDIT:

They took on the MPA.

UG > MPA

UG v MPA
Last edited by madefortvmovie at Jul 30, 2009,
#27
He should literally fight them, like Royal Rumble style. Or something, I haven't watched wrestling in years, and I have no idea what they do in that now.
#28
The RIAA have their heads so far up their own ass holes they can see out their mouths...
seriously though CD sales go to the record company, not the artist. Joel is being sued for way too much, but oh well. Just remember, Big Brother is watching.
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#29
Quote by headbangerbuggy
Times have changed, dude. Like... more so than just a little bit. If they make ANY money from sales, it's astronomically small compared to what it should be anyways.


Which is why more and more artists are turning to independent methods of selling music. Hell, even modern pop/rock legends like Keith Richards has a single with Tunecore. More people are making money from recordings than you'd think nowadays because more people are giving the RIAA the middle finger they deserve.

Also group;

http://groups.ultimate-guitar.com/gojoel
THE FORUM UPDATE KILLED THE GRADIENT STAR

Baltimore Orioles: 2014 AL Eastern Division Champions, 2017: 75-87
Baltimore Ravens: 2012 World Champions, 2017: 3-3
2017 NFL Pick 'Em: 52-39
#30
he didnt even describe anything about the case.


**** him.
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#31
Well, I hope this guy wins, but he most likely wont though. The RIAA should stop trying to sue people over such minor things...
#32
The RIAA is trying to make an example of people by potentially ruining their lives over a few downloaded songs, and it is disgusting. That is not the purpose of the legal system.
WILDCARD, BITCHES!!

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#33
Quote by zippidyduda
The RIAA is trying to make an example of people by potentially ruining their lives over a few downloaded songs, and it is disgusting. That is not the purpose of the legal system.


Actually,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment

Occasionally innocent people were executed in the dark ages just to give people someone to blame, as humans are very simplistic creatures, giving them someone to blame makes us feel better usually. Making examples out of things is very much part of a legal system.

So basically depending on how you look at it, the RIAA are either a plague-ridden 1300's mob wanting to burn people at the stake, or they're a digital musical Knights Templar, complete with faulty honour code, idiotic conviction, and a supreme belief that they're right, you're not, you'll go to hell for it and they'll take you there.
THE FORUM UPDATE KILLED THE GRADIENT STAR

Baltimore Orioles: 2014 AL Eastern Division Champions, 2017: 75-87
Baltimore Ravens: 2012 World Champions, 2017: 3-3
2017 NFL Pick 'Em: 52-39
#34
Quote by madefortvmovie
EDIT:

They took on the MPA.

UG > MPA

UG v MPA

Ahh, thanks. I knew it happened, I just wasn't sure if it was real or a pile of crap that UG Team admitted to in some later time which I wasn't around for.
#35
Joel has balls of steel.

BALLS BALLS BALLS BALL BALLS BALLS of steel.

[IN PHIL WE TRUST]


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#36
Quote by necrosis1193
Actually,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment

Occasionally innocent people were executed in the dark ages just to give people someone to blame, as humans are very simplistic creatures, giving them someone to blame makes us feel better usually. Making examples out of things is very much part of a legal system.

So basically depending on how you look at it, the RIAA are either a plague-ridden 1300's mob wanting to burn people at the stake, or they're a digital musical Knights Templar, complete with faulty honour code, idiotic conviction, and a supreme belief that they're right, you're not, you'll go to hell for it and they'll take you there.


One of the most basic tenants of the modern legal system is that we must give a person convicted of a crime a punishment that fits that crime. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a $1,000,000+ lawsuit does not seem like a fitting punishment of what was essentially $7 worth of stolen goods.

This is an example of how our legal system is being abused.
WILDCARD, BITCHES!!

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#37
Quote by necrosis1193

Occasionally innocent people were executed in the dark ages just to give people someone to blame, as humans are very simplistic creatures, giving them someone to blame makes us feel better usually. Making examples out of things is very much part of a legal system.

So basically depending on how you look at it, the RIAA are either a plague-ridden 1300's mob wanting to burn people at the stake, or they're a digital musical Knights Templar, complete with faulty honour code, idiotic conviction, and a supreme belief that they're right, you're not, you'll go to hell for it and they'll take you there.


You could have said 'Scapegoating' to cover those two paragraphs in one word, dude.
Quote by Twisted Magnum
I'd throw a Marshall MG at him while he succumbs to tone killing gain.

Quote by King Krapp
Spend all $200 on M&M's, then find a friend with an acoustic, and fill the body with them. Why? Because you can.

#38
Quote by thewho65
I'm glad someone is taking a stand against the monolithic music fascist that is the RIAA. The penalties imposed on file sharing far exceed any harm the act actually has. Though I personally don't get my music from digital sources, this is simply ridiculous.


I agree, the repurcussions of downloading music are HUGE in comparison to what's being done. I believe that at most, they can fine him the cost of the music that other people got from him, and maybe tack on a thousand dollars. There's no reason it should cost millions of dollars other than to scare people from sharing music.
#39
Quote by zippidyduda
One of the most basic tenants of the modern legal system is that we must give a person convicted of a crime a punishment that fits that crime. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a $1,000,000+ lawsuit does not seem like a fitting punishment of what was essentially $7 worth of stolen goods.

This is an example of how our legal system is being abused.


Touche. I suppose this is why I'm not going into law.

Quote by headbangerbuggy
You could have said 'Scapegoating' to cover those two paragraphs in one word, dude.


Yes, but comparing the RIAA to religious fanatics and plague-ridden mobs is much more fun.
THE FORUM UPDATE KILLED THE GRADIENT STAR

Baltimore Orioles: 2014 AL Eastern Division Champions, 2017: 75-87
Baltimore Ravens: 2012 World Champions, 2017: 3-3
2017 NFL Pick 'Em: 52-39
#40
Quote by necrosis1193
Finally. Someone with the balls to stand up to the RIAA, something I wish I had.

You have my Iranian grandmother wielding a bazooka, Joel.



:JoelSalute:

I was just scrolling down to post when I saw this.

x 100,000,000,000


As for my actual post, good job Joel, hopefully this will be just one step towards the major reform of the music industry I've hoped for for so long. Part of me wants to dig up the recording contracts for a ****load of bands and bring those to the court. I know I can't because they won't let some random kid walk up and hand the jury a bunch of contracts, but I would if I could.
Last edited by cornmancer at Jul 30, 2009,
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