#1
For those of you that have interacted with me here. You know that I run out of a Fender Frontman, and I've taken a bit of heat for it. Its ok, it was soooo cheap. Anyhow, some folks were asking for sound clips and I have them. I made a three part series on You Tube titled "The Tube V. Solid State Debate". I dont want to offend forum rules with the post, and I dont feel that this is a strict, go to You Tube page, so I'll post the links below. I used three amps for the debate.

My Buddies 64 Super Reverb - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh1LIUJJYa0

My old Line 6 Spider III - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGBeCsx_CcQ

And my Current Gig Rig - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7qEj92hd80

I am not the most talented guitarist in the world, so please refrian from bashing on my lack of skills, as this was not a test to see if you liked the way I played. But hey, I cant stop you.

As requested, clips posted.
1981 Gibson Les Paul Custom (Black Beauty)
1980 Marshall JMP 2204
Last edited by Jonny Ryan Mac at Jul 31, 2009,
#2
i feel like this will be closed in record time.
Quote by BryanChampine
It was like a orgasm in my ear.
Chea_man is the best.
#3
agreed.......

well....... maybe not as fast as that mg vs spider thread

-Gibson LP VM
-Silvertone Kentucky Blue
-MXR CC Delay
-Ibanez TS-9
-Egnater Rebel 20
-Avatar 1x12

My rig is simple
Haha. UG's Chuck just said chuck. haha
You're not truly playing guitar unless you know theory.
#4
IMO, both tube and solid state definantly have there place

and your frontman or spider dont count as a real solid state
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#5
Quote by chea_man
i feel like this will be closed in record time.


+1

Our poor mods fingers are probably getting tired after closing so many of these a day...


Gets out the pop corn
#6
both of the clips sound awful
1)crappy camera mic
2)Youtube compression

You can't really do any comparision on youtube with a crappy camera mic
#7
Quote by Sguit
both of the clips sound awful
1)crappy camera mic
2)Youtube compression

You can't really do any comparision on youtube with a crappy camera mic


I appreciate your input, but thats what I have, and I was asked to do it. I can only work with what I have.

But thanks for the input.
1981 Gibson Les Paul Custom (Black Beauty)
1980 Marshall JMP 2204
#8
Quote by Sguit
both of the clips sound awful
1)crappy camera mic
2)Youtube compression

You can't really do any comparision on youtube with a crappy camera mic


Agreed. First clip sounds terribly muddy to my ears... Fender Frontman clip sounds the best to me.
Gear:
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#9
IMO the Frontman sounds best, but its just because the crappy sound quality. Having played all 3 myself, the Super Reverb is the best-sounding imo.

-Gibson LP VM
-Silvertone Kentucky Blue
-MXR CC Delay
-Ibanez TS-9
-Egnater Rebel 20
-Avatar 1x12

My rig is simple
Haha. UG's Chuck just said chuck. haha
You're not truly playing guitar unless you know theory.
#10
The Camera I have is pretty old. Thanks for the kind words, as they can be hard to come by sometimes. As far as the 64 SR is concerned, I can try to back up the camera, or turn the volume down, or eq it better. I had a few minutes today, so I figured I'd give it a go.

When I posted a long rant a while back, a lot of folks were asking for clips, so I wanted to give that to them. The quality is bad, but at least I produced.
1981 Gibson Les Paul Custom (Black Beauty)
1980 Marshall JMP 2204
#11
I can tell that the Super Reverb was the best BY FAR. I don't know what it is, but for some reason single coil pickups always sounds like utter crap with SS amps but sing through a valve. Likewise a humbucker will sound decent through a SS amp, but if it is genereic (like the kind in epiphones) then it sounds crappy on a valve amp. I dunno, maybe thats just my experience.
#12
Quote by redvetteZ06
I can tell that the Super Reverb was the best BY FAR. I don't know what it is, but for some reason single coil pickups always sounds like utter crap with SS amps but sing through a valve. Likewise a humbucker will sound decent through a SS amp, but if it is genereic (like the kind in epiphones) then it sounds crappy on a valve amp. I dunno, maybe thats just my experience.



That makes no sense. Neither does this debate.

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Electronic Audio Experiments
#14
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
+311TS- Seemed more like you want us to help you justify your purchase, which I can't.


I dont need anyones approval. UG asked for sound clips last time I had this disscussion, I was merely staying true to my word. You be the judge. The Tubes are great, I love them as much as the next man. I dont want to start trolling.

Mods - This is not going the way I intended it too. I suppose this thread should be closed. I dont need advice at this present time, I was merely trying to give three sound clips, and the difference in each one, as I was asked to do.
1981 Gibson Les Paul Custom (Black Beauty)
1980 Marshall JMP 2204
#15
Well, you still get props for effort and taking the time to do it it's just that the whole 'Tube and Solid State Debate' threads ususally end in flaming and failure. At least you used the same guitar and the same riffs so props again for that. I did something similar last year.

Can you post a link to the thread where you were asked to makes this comparison?
#16
The comparison idea was mine. UG asked for sound clips of my FM 100 during a coversation in this forum.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1168099

One dude/or dudette, asked for clips. I have my buddies SR in the house at the momment, so I figured, what they hell. The whole rant was on tone, to a certian degree, so I figured I'd showcase the whole tone spectum that I have at my disposal at the momment, and the differences may come out.

One day Im going to buy the Tube Amp that "I Want", and on that day, and there after, I will have reached one small peak in my battle over tone and substance. I still dont know what amp "I Want" yet. So for now, I'll roll on with my Frontman.
1981 Gibson Les Paul Custom (Black Beauty)
1980 Marshall JMP 2204
#17
Get a mic and learn to record. The comparison was worthless due to the poor recording quality. But you already knew that... right?

I've never played a Frontman, but it seems to me that it ought to be able to do a decent clean. Throw a few good pedals in front and you should be able to dial in a few good tones. I've heard clips of the SS Fender Cyber Champ that sounded pretty darn good.
Last edited by fly135 at Jul 31, 2009,
#18
IMHO the only solid states worth using are as follows:

Axe-FX Ultra
Axe-FX
Line6 Vetta II or Vetta I
Line6 Flextone III or II
Ampeg VH-140C or one of its variants
Marshall 8008
Randall V2 and Warhead

That's about it for me.

I see value in SS modeling, however, I really won't ever say that the tone is equivalent or better than a good tube amplifier.

EDIT:

Also, a SS preamp used with a tube preamp =/= SS tone.
I've bought, sold, and traded more gear than I care to admit.
Last edited by Brendan.Clace at Jul 31, 2009,
#19
We don't need to debate it. Both types of amps have their place.
Call me Wes.
Gear:
Fender American Deluxe HSS Strat
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Bad Cat Cougar 5
1957 Gibson GA-5
Ceriatone 18w TMB Combo
Hughes & Kettner Tube Factor
Various Ibanez TS9s
Weber MASS Attenuator
#20
/inb4thelock.

the point? don't think there is one to be made...

we did an actual good version of this thread about a year ago. it was fun, but it's done.
#21
Quote by Jonny Ryan Mac
The comparison idea was mine. UG asked for sound clips of my FM 100 during a coversation in this forum.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1168099

One dude/or dudette, asked for clips. I have my buddies SR in the house at the momment, so I figured, what they hell. The whole rant was on tone, to a certian degree, so I figured I'd showcase the whole tone spectum that I have at my disposal at the momment, and the differences may come out.

One day Im going to buy the Tube Amp that "I Want", and on that day, and there after, I will have reached one small peak in my battle over tone and substance. I still dont know what amp "I Want" yet. So for now, I'll roll on with my Frontman.



Well one person asking for clips is not 'UG'.

I agreed with just about everyone who posted in that thread and thought pak's post was spot on.

I own a Frontman. They are fine for the clean stuff you were playing but try to do some rock and roll riffs or country twang and god forbid something heavier and you won't get it out of a Frontman by itself. They do take pedals well so if you like it that is all that matters. And if your audiance doesn't care, then we shouldn't either.

Good luck with everything.

PS: The Super Reverb sounded great live I'm sure but the camera didn't capture it. YouTube videos with a camera mic really don't work out so well.
#22
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
YouTube videos really don't work out so well.


Fixed for truth.
I've bought, sold, and traded more gear than I care to admit.
#23
Quote by Brendan.Clace
IMHO the only solid states worth using are as follows:

Axe-FX Ultra
Axe-FX
Line6 Vetta II or Vetta I
Line6 Flextone III or II
Ampeg VH-140C or one of its variants
Marshall 8008
Randall V2 and Warhead

That's about it for me.

I see value in SS modeling, however, I really won't ever say that the tone is equivalent or better than a good tube amplifier. No one tries to argue digital preamps with a tube power amp are tube amps.

EDIT:

Also, a SS preamp used with a tube preamp =/= SS tone.


I wouldn't really consider digital amps to be solid states. Yes, they gotta SS power amp (usually), but real solid state amps are analog, just like tube amps.

There's gotta be at least another couple dozen decent solid state amps, like the JC-120, and most solidstate Marshalls to the G series. Kustom makes a number of good solid state amps. Most SS Randalls are good, not just the Warhead and everything based on it's circuit.
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#24
Quote by STABxYOU
I wouldn't really consider digital amps to be solid states. Yes, they gotta SS power amp (usually), but real solid state amps are analog, just like tube amps.

There's gotta be at least another couple dozen decent solid state amps, like the JC-120, and most solidstate Marshalls to the G series. Kustom makes a number of good solid state amps. Most SS Randalls are good, not just the Warhead and everything based on it's circuit.


Thanks man, I was just kinda genralizing since mostly all of those have SS power sections etc, however I see your point. I completely forgot the JC-120... the other guitarist in my old band used one...
I've bought, sold, and traded more gear than I care to admit.
#25
Quote by STABxYOU
I wouldn't really consider digital amps to be solid states. Yes, they gotta SS power amp (usually), but real solid state amps are analog, just like tube amps.

There's gotta be at least another couple dozen decent solid state amps, like the JC-120, and most solidstate Marshalls to the G series. Kustom makes a number of good solid state amps. Most SS Randalls are good, not just the Warhead and everything based on it's circuit.
Some of Peavey's solid-states I find are decent as well.
#26
Quote by Brendan.Clace
Thanks man, I was just kinda genralizing since mostly all of those have SS power sections etc, however I see your point. I completely forgot the JC-120... the other guitarist in my old band used one...


Apparently I'm a pedant. ^-^

Anyways, I always divide the two, power amps are always analog, and a digital preamp behaves differently then either type of analog circuit. Due to how many people lump analog transistor amps in with digital amps I'm starting to get more anal about accuracy.

Quote by DIMEBAGLIVEDON
Some of Peavey's solid-states I find are decent as well.


I agree. Bandits are pretty good sounding, they pretty much define black metal tone. They've got a few models related to it too, I believe.
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#27
Quote by STABxYOU
I agree. Bandits are pretty good sounding, they pretty much define black metal tone. They've got a few models related to it too, I believe.
I've been trying to fine a good thrash tone. Still working at it.
#28
Anti-scoop.

Boost your mids and highs, cut the lows a little.
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#29
Quote by DIMEBAGLIVEDON
I've been trying to fine a good thrash tone. Still working at it.


The studio Pro 112 gives out some pretty awesome thrash tone.
I've bought, sold, and traded more gear than I care to admit.
#30
Quote by STABxYOU
Anti-scoop.

Boost your mids and highs, cut the lows a little.
My tone before was

Lows: 6
Mids: 6
Highs:7
Gain: 7

I found that the sound was very muddy when playing fast palm-muted riffs. Anything you (or somebody else) suggest I change?
Last edited by DIMEBAGLIVEDON at Jul 31, 2009,
#31
I can't really give too much EQing advice without your amp actually in front of me. I'd maybe try turning the mids to about 8 and the bass to 5 and the gain back to about 6.
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#32
Quote by STABxYOU
I can't really give too much EQing advice without your amp actually in front of me. I'd maybe try turning the mids to about 8 and the bass to 5 and the gain back to about 6.


I tried the gain on 6. Very weak sound.

Mid's at 8 and bass at 5? K I'll try.

EDIT: Just tried it. The mids really helped it a lot! It's not muddy anymore.

Thank you!
Last edited by DIMEBAGLIVEDON at Jul 31, 2009,
#33
Every amp is different, but too much bass, too much gain and too much, or not enough mids are all pretty common causes of muddy tone.
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Ibanez SZ520/Ibanez ORM-1/Ibanez RG7321/Pocket POD/Crate GX/Boss HM-2
#34
Quote by Brendan.Clace
IMHO the only solid states worth using are as follows:

Axe-FX Ultra
Axe-FX
Line6 Vetta II or Vetta I
Line6 Flextone III or II
Ampeg VH-140C or one of its variants
Marshall 8008
Randall V2 and Warhead

That's about it for me.

I see value in SS modeling, however, I really won't ever say that the tone is equivalent or better than a good tube amplifier.

EDIT:

Also, a SS preamp used with a tube preamp =/= SS tone.


Well a ROLAND JC120B would beat any of those amps you listed.
Quote by ljohn
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#35
Quote by Zapher
Well a ROLAND JC120B would beat any of those amps you listed.


Unlikely. It's good and all, but it's pretty much limited to cleans. I'd take the Ampeg over it any day. For cleans it's pretty close to the Roland, and for distortion it's untouchable.
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Be Serious.
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#36
Quote by Zapher
Well a ROLAND JC120B would beat any of those amps you listed.


Considering that the Axe-FX Ultra slays any solid state and digital amp out there for pretty much every tone...I highly doubt that.
I've bought, sold, and traded more gear than I care to admit.