#1
I dont particularly have one in mind, but the name death was used by a detroit based punk band in the '70s, then in the '80s as chuck schuldiner's band, and today as band k saw on itunes who i think is an alternative band. Another wxample is the metal band exodus, and a new pop-ish band under the same name, while both bands are still active. But my question is: is this legal?
Edit: sorry for the small wall, but paragraphing is difficult on an ipod touch
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#2
Once you get signed to a larger label you have to change your name or make them change theirs legally.


That's why Dragonforce had to change their name from Dragonheart.
Check out my band Disturbed
#3
Read axemanchris' thread about copyright (stickied).

If you're in the same market (gigging near each other), and people could potentially get you mixed up with the other band, then it's illegal. However, if one is only gigging in Canada/selling records there, the other in Norway, then it's legal.
#4
see your point, but if the band is no longer active, then can you use the name? That and both bands named exodus are on itunes, and if you searh for 1 and click the name, you get both bands up at the same. Hows this legal?
Quote by webbtje
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#5
Quote by StewieSwan
Once you get signed to a larger label you have to change your name or make them change theirs legally.


That's why Dragonforce had to change their name from Dragonheart.



I'd read that they changed it from Dragonheart, because it wasn't metal enough. Or it didn't really convey them how they wanted it to...

Anyhow, technically bands shouldn't have the same name. Though it seems that songs with the same name are ok.
#6
Quote by skwelcher
see your point, but if the band is no longer active, then can you use the name?

I suppose it depends on what the other band did. For example, you couldn't get away with calling your band The Beatles, regardless of what genre you play.

If the other band only played gigs in their local area though, maybe released a few demos, but is no longer active, I think it should be fine.
#7
But heres still the example with the exodi. Hows that legal? There was even an example today. There was a guy who had a band named harbinger, anpther guy who brought to light another band from the 80s with the same name and a band from the 90s who has also released material as did the 80s band.
Quote by webbtje
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#8
Do they play in the same area? They may be in different countries, therefore it wouldn't matter.
#9
Regression clearly understands the copyright for dummies thread.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=7

See #6 titled "Help! Someone stole our band name!"

In short, even though the Beatles, for instance, are long broken up, they are still doing business internationally.

About iTunes.... good point. I think what is happening here is that you have a case of two bands who had, historically, been doing business in two different markets, and thus not competing with each other, are now attempting to do business internationally through iTunes.

Now, just for sake of example.... My band is called Now-Here-This. Just because we put a song or two or ten on iTunes and have our songs available from Armenia to Zaire, the question still remains... are we doing business in those markets? We have sold 98% of our CDs within an hour's drive of Hamilton, Ontario. Okay.... we have sold CDs in Europe, and the Eastern USA, etc. But just because I sold one CD in New Jersey, does that mean I'm doing business there? No. Not really.

So, if some other band called Now-Here-This comes out of the woodwork from, say, Portugal, it really isn't fair to suggest that they are doing business here. Sure, they may be attempting to, but without a track record, they are not, in fact, doing business here. There is still no problem.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#10
Ok, i see. But in another scenario if one bandformed first, andstayex relatively small oer the years, but still stay active. And lets say another band forms later and gets succesfull later, but the first band has released a cd and has a local fanbase. The second more succesful band grows and gains the same market as the first band. What happens now? Lets say both bands are signed. This is all hypothetical. Amd lets say both bands enjoy popularity in the first bands home town
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#11
Take the example, fairly recently, of the Raconteurs. They got signed and started doing business globally. Not just intending to do business locally, but *actually* doing business globally.

There was another band in Australia called the Raconteurs, and yes, doing business there. Until then, there was no problem. Now that Jack White's band decides to start doing business in Australia as the Raconteurs, there is now a problem.

Solution: The Raconteurs are marketed as the Saboteurs in Australia. The other possibility might have been for them to 'encourage' the Australian Raconteurs to change their name. Sometimes fear and ignorance are enough to do the trick. Often times, money helps.

FWIW - It does NOT matter if both, either, or neither band is signed. It also doesn't matter whether they're doing the same kind of music or not. Fact is, they are both providing a service of musical entertainment. What matters is whether they are doing business in that market, and can provide support for that assertion.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#12
Ok thanks, but what about in the same country? What i mean here is can you market your band under a different name in a specific area in the same country?
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#13
Quote by skwelcher
Ok thanks, but what about in the same country? What i mean here is can you market your band under a different name in a specific area in the same country?

I can't quite make sense of that question. I assume you mean, can 2 bands in the same country use the same name? Yes, but only if it won't interfere with the other. If one band intends to move into the same market as the other, then they must either change their name for that specific market, change their name completely, or come to an agreement with the other band to change their name.

There are still aspects I am yet to completely understand. Axemanchris, I was reading about HIM and it said:
"Their second major US release, Razorblade Romance, was released under the name HER because a Chicago based post-rock band named HiM held the trademark on the name. While they toured Europe, primarily Germany, at this time, they used the name HIM and HER. HIM eventually bought the rights to the name "HIM" in the United States and used it worldwide from there on."

Why second? Shouldn't it have been from the first that they had to use a different name? Also, it said the other band held the trademark on the name? Your thread kind of skips this part, what difference does it make if they hold the trademark or not? Is it purely incase legal matters arise?
Last edited by Regression at Aug 2, 2009,
#14
Quote by skwelcher
Ok thanks, but what about in the same country? What i mean here is can you market your band under a different name in a specific area in the same country?


I don't see why not. but I don't know how this would help anything. I think it would just complicate things. I think if there is a similarly named band doing business *that* close to you, you'd best be looking at a new name.

Now, I'll qualify that a bit.... I'm near Toronto. If I had a band that just played locally doing covers called Great Cover Band. Would it be conceivable that another band, playing in the same country, but three time zones away in Vancouver could be called Great Cover Band? Sure. Is it likely that we're going to be doing business in the same area? Hardly.

Now.... if I had an original band called Great Original Band here in Hamilton, and there was another original band called Great Original Band in Toronto, only about 50km up the highway, is it conceivable that we might be trying to do business in the same area. Absolutely.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#15
Hmmm..... interesting about the HiM/HER story.

Perhaps through the first release, it was made known that there was a problem, but it was already 'in process' and took some time to sort out. By the second album, it was sorted and that was the resolution. Just a guess.

I don't know much about Trademarking, except that it takes somewhere around a year or so to do, and costs upwards from $1500+. I know that allows you to use that name, image, whatever exclusively, but I don't know if the parameters of that are worldwide, or just where you happen to be doing business.

Perhaps, as you expand the reach of your business, the trademark is applied wherever you are. That way, even if someone else is already doing business in that area, when you come in after the fact with your name trademarked, it will supercede the fact that they had it first? I really don't know.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#16
I assumed it would apply everywhere besides countries which completely disregard laws in other ones. (A copyright in the US for example, would apply in most countries wouldn't it? Provided it met the criteria of their copyright laws?) Obviously not though, considering HiM could exist in the US and HIM were perfectly fine in other countries.

Regarding what rights a trademark gives you, what I gathered from your copyright thread was that these rights were automatic. I assumed that trademark would hold up in court a lot better, just as an official copyright would be much more effective than sending the work to yourself via mail.

If you ever do find out more, please enlighten us all.
#17
Careful.... you don't copyright band names. The band names thing comes from standard business law, and has nothing to do with copyrights.

So, yes, your copyrights are international. Copyright laws do differ from country to country, but in most countries, they're quite similar.

In the end, you are subject to the laws of your own country.

Trademarking is an entirely different ball of wax. It is reserved for things like business names, and things like logos (think: McDonald's 'golden arches' or Nike's 'swoosh' for instance).

What I'm not sure of, is let's say you Trademark your business name, "Paul's Wicked Awesome Plumbing Spectacle," and you're doing business in Seattle. Can someone else, say, in Barcelona Spain also use a business name "Paul's Wicked Awesome Plumbing Spectacle" because the first guy has it trademarked. I mean, it's not like they're *ever* going to be in competition with each other. That is what I don't know.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#18
I understood that you don't copyright band names, I just thought trademarks would be quite similar in terms of how the laws apply. Maybe not though.
#19
No, but like someone above me said, it isn't really enforced unless they're doing business in the same or similar areas. An awesome story on this subject, my friend's dad is a judge and some of his lawyer friends formed a classic rock cover band in the early 80's called The Firm, and they being lawyers decided to trademark the name. A couple years later Jimmy Page and Paul Rogers formed a band of the same name, and the lawyers decided to sue. They settled out of court and Jimmy Page paid them a hefty sum of money to keep the name, which they used to buy themselves new cars. So essentially, Jimmy Page bought them new cars. 'Twas quite awesome.
#20
While I believe that they may have settled out of court via an agreement whereby they were paid to use the name, I think you might have misunderstood the story or something about the suing part. When you sue someone, AFAIK, you are suing for any damages, lost income, etc. that has been incurred as a result of the other person's/people's actions. Surely, the Page version of the Firm did not cause any damage or lost income for this local cover band.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#21
Ok. What about cover bands? Can you have the same name as a cover band who is strictly a cover band?
Quote by webbtje
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#22
You can have the same name as *any* band - as long as you're not both doing business in the same market.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.