#1
So I'm writing the rock/hard rock tune that has the notes D#, A#, A and D so far. I'm looking for a scale that has a that 'creepy' tone to it, almost Tool-like with a phaser or some delay?? Anybody know what scale would that be with those notes? Thanks in advance as always!!
#6
^True, but screwing around for the first time with the Major scale vs. screwing around for the first time with the Whole Tone scale...
#7
Whole tone scale is one of my favorites. I (personally) think it can sound very dreamy, but also really sinister. And relaxing if used correctly.
#8
Quote by timeconsumer09
Whole tone scale is one of my favorites. I (personally) think it can sound very dreamy, but also really sinister. And relaxing if used correctly.


Weird. Gonna give that a try.
#9
Quote by blue_strat
Harmonic minor with some dominant 7th and diminished arpeggios.


Those things are just basic bread and butter minor sounds, don't make a post if you don't know what you are talking about.
#10
Quote by TheEarlOfDublin
Those things are just basic bread and butter minor sounds, don't make a post if you don't know what you are talking about.


Actually he's a pretty helpful member of the musician talk forum who clearly DOES know what he's talking about. I'd like to hear what you think constitutes as "creepy".
#11
^While that is standard "creepy" fare, the TS was asking about a scale that includes D#(Eb), A#(Bb), A, and D, which, as chainsawguitar said, would probably fit best with D Phrygian or Phrygian Dominant.

I'd say besides that, it's fairly easy to get a "creepy" tone out of a whole tone scale or a progression derived from a diminished scale.
#12
Quote by griffRG7321
Actually he's a pretty helpful member of the musician talk forum who clearly DOES know what he's talking about. I'd like to hear what you think constitutes as "creepy".


Maybe hes a great asset in your eyes, but to anyone who has any knowledge at all of basic harmony knows that those sounds are your common bread and butter for minor harmony. Does bach scare you? You are a frigging baby.

Maybe you shouldn't post here. Go read some some basic harmony books before you start lashing out at people for things you don't understand.

*pats you on the head*
#13
Quote by TheEarlOfDublin
Maybe hes a great asset in your eyes, but to anyone who has any knowledge at all of basic harmony knows that those sounds are your common bread and butter for minor harmony. Does bach scare you? You are a frigging baby.

Maybe you shouldn't post here. Go read some some basic harmony books before you start lashing out at people for things you don't understand.

*pats you on the head*
A mmaj7 chord is arguably one of the creepier ones around. It's not like everything that uses "classical" minor harmony sounds like Bach, lol.

Would you mind maybe contributing something of your own?
#15
^ok dick, but just because they basic does that mean it wont sound creepy?

give your head a shake.

diminished fifths are scary, create a lead line using your ear then harmonize with diminished fifths maybe.
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Last edited by `NeXxuS` at Aug 3, 2009,
#16
TS not only put quotes around the word creepy, but also added that he wanted something Tool-like. Yeah, most of the things in this thread aren't going to keep me up at night or anything, but we're going for 'creepy', not creepy. Agreed about that stuff you posted though. o_O

If TS is writing a song, that means he's not just playing over a backing track or anything. He's going to be writing riffs, which ARE the underlying harmony. As long as he has the chance to decide what the underlying harmony is, why not give him a few scales to fool around with till he finds something nice?
#17
Quote by grampastumpy
A mmaj7 chord is arguably one of the creepier ones around. It's not like everything that uses "classical" minor harmony sounds like Bach, lol.

Would you mind maybe contributing something of your own?


Dominant and diminished chords are used everywhere in like every genre of music, and they pretty much never sound "creepy". He didn't mention the mmaj7 chord, and its not a normal thing that you would just assume to use in that context?
#18
Quote by TheEarlOfDublin
Dominant and diminished chords are used everywhere in like every genre of music, and they pretty much never sound "creepy". He didn't mention the mmaj7 chord, and its not a normal thing that you would just assume to use in that context?
It IS in the harmonic minor scale and is a pretty prominent more modern usage of it. And if not the chord itself, one of the first things I'd be thinking about over some minor changes is using the major seventh over the tonic. As for diminished and diminished 7th chords, when people hear them isolated, they don't normally hear them as rootless dominants the way I think you might, and do sound arguably pretty "creepy". Although I will concede there isn't all that much you can do with them.

I'll give you dominant chords completely though.

While what he suggested is pretty standard "classical" minor harmony, there's no reason to go off on him like that, really.
#19
It's really quite a pointless debate as has been said the context hasn't been given. Suggestions like the whole tone scale may be useful if TS gives some chord progression... You will not write an effective progression by trying to use solely the whole tone scale. Get a progression you like the sound of and that you think is effective, then consider scale possibilities and select the ones you like the sound of.

Mr Earl of Dublin, you seem like an angry man. Your helpful suggestion of 'atonal music with weird effects' will I am sure be given all due attention. I would say however that when considering a piece writing in a minor key, using a mmaj chord as a minor tonic chord would be a fine and indeed a wise choice. And I think that even Bach may have considered diminished chords at least mildly uneasy, although obviously that is pure speculation, much like your assertion that they pretty much never sound creepy... except I'd like to think mine was more accurate.

But TS, write a chord progression... no suggestions will help you until then.
#20
Ok I'm not much of a music-theory expert, but the ones that are here are just arguing like kids over toy.

So TS, I'd suggest, like someone above already did, that you check out the Harmonic Minor scale. Other than the Minor scale itself, THAT is the most basic 'creepy' scale out there.

This is why I never come to the Music talk threads... You musical elitists just argue over who is more "right" than the other. Just waving your e-dicks around.

Don't bother replying to this either, I'm not going to be checking back at this thread.
Good luck TS
#21
Quote by grampastumpy
^While that is standard "creepy" fare, the TS was asking about a scale that includes D#(Eb), A#(Bb), A, and D, which, as chainsawguitar said, would probably fit best with D Phrygian or Phrygian Dominant.


Or Bb major, which sounds more likely to me without any extra info.

Quote by TheEarlOfDublin
Stop thinking in terms of scales. Scales are useless without harmony to define their context, the way they are used (95% of the time) is to accent the underlying harmony.


I don't mean to be rude, but that latter comment is complete bull**** for two reasons:
1) Melody existed waaaaaaaay before harmony.
2) If melody existed to only accent harmony, how can two songs exist with the same progression, instrumentation, time signature, and structure (READ: pop music) yet still sound so different?

Also, this forum is meant to be productive -- saying "Stop thinking in terms of scales" is just the opposite considering most harmonic and melodic concepts in tonal theory are thought of in terms of the major and minor scale. But you know everything already, right? So this should come as no surprise.

EDIT: Since this thread is a mess, I thought I'd attempt to give some actual advice. First off, you won't find creepiness bottled up in an exclusive scale. While that would be nice, it just doesn't work that way. I'll give you two examples from the same band, 'cause it's all I've got right now. Here is Atheist's Mother Man. You just need to listen to the intro and the first verse-thing. The harmonies in the beginning is the kind of creepiness you're looking for, right? They're all harmonized in strict minor thirds. One guitar (and the bass at some points) is playing the regular melody and the other guitar is play the exact melody a minor third above that. The whole-half and half-whole scales (the two different types of diminished scales) are filled with minor thirds and is heard to be creepy for the same reason, I'm conjecturing. Try it with your melody, it might give the effect you want.

The next example shows how phrasing effects creepiness. This is from the same band: Unquestionable Presence. Right in the intro. One guitar is playing a riff in F# minor, using some b2's graciously. The b2 is borrowed from Phrygian, a mode generally referred to as creepy. b2's don't always sound creepy -- in fact, they can have a variety of sounds. They don't really contribute to the creepiness as much as the ambiance from the second guitar does. The second guitar is playing various notes from F# minor, I think. I think you should be able to hear the phrasing and how the ambiance makes it creepy.

In general, horror movie style creepiness comes from phrasing, random dissonance (no joke), and instrumentation, as far as I can tell. I haven't heard much Tool (I hate them >_> ) but I'm assuming that the creepiness there would be coming from harmonies, phrasing, and instrumentation, primarily.

Cool.
Last edited by Eastwinn at Aug 3, 2009,
#22
Quote by Eastwinn
I don't mean to be rude, but that latter comment is complete bull**** for two reasons:
1) Melody existed waaaaaaaay before harmony.
2) If melody existed to only accent harmony, how can two songs exist with the same progression, instrumentation, time signature, and structure (READ: pop music) yet still sound so different?

Also, this forum is meant to be productive -- saying "Stop thinking in terms of scales" is just the opposite considering most harmonic and melodic concepts in tonal theory are thought of in terms of the major and minor scale. But you know everything already, right? So this should come as no surprise.


Just because harmony wasn't formally declared doesn't mean it didn't play a major factor.

You can't really separate harmony and melody, even if you play unaccompanied melodies they still imply underlying harmony, and the more you know about that the better melodies you can create.

Thinking of scales without any reference point to harmony won't get you anywhere.
Last edited by TheEarlOfDublin at Aug 3, 2009,
#23
Thanks guys, this is great!! So far my progression is D-D#-A-A#... kinda strange! I am looking for that 'creepiness' in a verse with notes, not chords. I've used some suggestions here and come up with some pretty interesting stuff using single notes. Anything else you can pitch in would be great too. Thanks again!!!
#24
I can't believe TheEarl tried to lecture people immediately after posting a whole heap of copyrighted material and a guys ass multiple times. Ignore everything he claims to know. He's banned anyway, can't hurt you now
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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