#1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRnXiHGQBSs

Yes, I started a topic based on this youtube video, but this has got to be, hands down, one of the best sounding guitars I think I've ever heard, even with the crappy youtube quality. And it has the best sounding neck pickup I've ever heard in a guitar, as well as the fattest sounding bridge PAF I think I've ever heard of, 9.14k, just shows how much variance there was in these things, the PAFs that I've played all measured in at under 8.5k.

*waits for someone to come in saying that it sounds the same as any other les paul*
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 3, 2009,
#2
sounds nice, but, its youtube, you cant really judge much but looks on youtube. i'd have to hear it in person. also, did you see the amp he was using? it was from the 60's. that had a bigger influence on the tone than anything else.
Quote by pedromiles101
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#3
Quote by randomhero93
sounds nice, but, its youtube, you cant really judge much but looks on youtube. i'd have to hear it in person. also, did you see the amp he was using? it was from the 60's. that had a bigger influence on the tone than anything else.
No. It didn't.
#4
very creamy


he is talking complete b/s about the rock n roll beat though
Last edited by Serg1 at Aug 3, 2009,
#6
Quote by al112987
No. It didn't.

play the same guitar through a different amp and try telling me it sounded the EXACT same as that.
Quote by pedromiles101
you're not gonna want to take a dump in a gross, off-colored, vintage toilet. you want something that is white and pearly; something that shines. something that you can put your cheeks against and say, "f*** yeah"
#7
Quote by randomhero93
play the same guitar through a different amp and try telling me it sounded the EXACT same as that.
That's not how it works. An amp will color the sound, but a good amp will let the true voice of the guitar come through, no matter what. And trying to say that the amp was more responsible for the tone you're hearing is just asinine. Instead, you try telling me that if he pulls a 1959 historic or even a crappier sounding authentic '59 burst, it will sound even close to that. The amp itself is nice enough sounding, but the qualities that are coming in through the guitar by far outshine any merits the amp has. Plus, you NEED a good amp to hear what the guitar really sounds like. I assure you that if you stuck an Epiphone les paul special through that amp, it would sound like crap.

The effect of an amplifier is so underrated in many cases that people are overrating it's effect in cases where you have an incredible sounding guitar at work. That tone that you hear is pure les paul, that slight honk, that flute-y tone on the neck pickup, that hollow, woody, sound of the bridge, that is all les paul, the amp has nothing to do with those. You will get those qualities through just about any amp that doesn't suck balls.

The reason why that tone sounds so good is the guitar, NOT the amp. Which is ironic, because it's heavy for a burst and it's bridge pickup is very overwound for a PAF, ingredients that are typically looked down upon for guitars of it's kind.
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 3, 2009,
#8
^ i agree. the thing about the amp around here is that it's neglected so much that there was a bit of a backlash, to the point where people barely even consider the guitar, which is daft too. And of course, the irony is that once you have that good amp, it'll show up the differences in guitars much more, so those two guitars which you thought sounded similar probably sound pretty different through a good amp.

nice clip too, i hadn't heard that one before, but i've listened to a whole load of other clips by that dude/shop.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#9
Sounds pretty good, but it didn't make me GAS for a Les Paul, just made me feel sad about the guy demo'ing it...for some reason.
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#10
Quote by Kurapica
Sounds pretty good, but it didn't make me GAS for a Les Paul, just made me feel sad about the guy demo'ing it...for some reason.
really? I love Phil X's demos, he's definitely a character, and is a great (and very tasteful) player and surprisingly good singer as well (I mean, it seems goofy in the context of the demo, but if he were to sing rock n roll like that on stage, it'd be a hell of a performance)
#11
Quote by al112987
really? I love Phil X's demos, he's definitely a character, and is a great (and very tasteful) player and surprisingly good singer as well (I mean, it seems goofy in the context of the demo, but if he were to sing rock n roll like that on stage, it'd be a hell of a performance)


I'm not entirely sure what it is about him, but just the whole thing, maybe? Phil X is a pretty juvenile name etc. I don't know, it just didn't click for me.

His playing was pretty good though, not too overplayed, which is always a winner for me.

Although I'm envious of his constant access to beautiful guitars.
Ibanez PGM301
Ibanez GRG170DX
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Swing T-Through

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Sovtek Small Stone - c.1985
EHX Big Muff
Kimbara Wah - c.1974
Boss GE-7

Orange Rocker 30 Combo

http://www.myspace.com/paythelay
#12
Silky smooth. The amp sounds like a Blankenship...

http://www.blankenshipamps.com/
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#13
Quote by al112987


The reason why that tone sounds so good is the guitar, NOT the amp.


So does this statement only apply to this guitar and amp or all guitars and amps?

I've seen quit a few UG know-it-alls who say that the tone comes from the amp....."no need to waste money on new PU's if you're still using that Line 6. Won't even be able to tell the difference."
#14
like how he talks about the rock n roll drums
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#15
Quote by srob7001
So does this statement only apply to this guitar and amp or all guitars and amps?

I've seen quit a few UG know-it-alls who say that the tone comes from the amp....."no need to waste money on new PU's if you're still using that Line 6. Won't even be able to tell the difference."
There is no hard set rule, I used to always say that the amp was the most important part of one's tone (and I still feel like it is the most ignored aspect of one's tone), and it's a huge blanket statement that I use to draw attention to the amp when it's being ignored. But saying that is exactly that, a blanket statement. There are cases when someone who wants to buy a les paul comes along and is playing a line 6 spider, then yeah, you really need to emphasize that they need a new amp. But in the end, everything matters, especially when you're running higher end gear. And I always emphasized this amp thing until I saw how wild people can run with the idea and taking it to such an extreme in cases where it is not applicable. All it shows is that they don't truly understand the concept and simply believe what they hear from others. In the case of this guitar, anyone with ears will tell you that the guitar sounds terrific, and anyone who says "the amp is a bigger contributor to that tone" simply does not know what they're talking about or they are ignoring what they're hearing in favor of what they've heard from others. There is the tone of the guitar and then there is how an amp colors the tone of that guitar. There was a great example of this in a video that I'm very glad came out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgbgUMqUMns

Which shows just how different two very "similar" guitars can sound through the same amp. You have a '59 with PAFs and a historic with clones of those PAFs. And yet, anyone who cannot tell an obvious and huge difference between those guitars and pickups need to get their ears checked. And that is through that ****ty sounding Vox, if they plugged that into a vintage Marshall or Fender, the difference would be even huger.

It comes down to this, a guitar has it's own voice, you can hear it when you play it unplugged, you put a very good sounding guitar with the right sounding pickups, the pickups will add their own color to the tone, but at the same time, let the voice of the guitar shine through, and through what is imo, a good amp, the amp will color the tone with it's own tone but also let the guitar's voice come through.
#17
Quote by sashki
That guitar/amp combo sounds awesome. Didn't expect such a tone from a small 60's amp.
you'd be suprised, most vintage rock tones were recorded on small combos like that, guys like Hendrix, Page, etc. all used small combos from Supros, to Fender Princetons to AC15s, etc. etc. because let's be honest, who really wants to crank up a super lead in a studio and blow the roof off the place? You just couldn't record with them liek that back then.
#18
Quote by al112987
you'd be suprised, most vintage rock tones were recorded on small combos like that, guys like Hendrix, Page, etc. all used small combos from Supros, to Fender Princetons to AC15s, etc. etc. because let's be honest, who really wants to crank up a super lead in a studio and blow the roof off the place? You just couldn't record with them liek that back then.

I've heard a bunch of small tube amps, and none of them sounded like this. They were kind of boxy and their distortion sounded like it came mostly from the speaker cone rather than the tubes. I don't like that sound.
Last edited by sashki at Aug 4, 2009,
#19
Quote by al112987
There is no hard set rule, I used to always say that the amp was the most important part of one's tone (and I still feel like it is the most ignored aspect of one's tone), and it's a huge blanket statement that I use to draw attention to the amp when it's being ignored. But saying that is exactly that, a blanket statement. There are cases when someone who wants to buy a les paul comes along and is playing a line 6 spider, then yeah, you really need to emphasize that they need a new amp. But in the end, everything matters, especially when you're running higher end gear. And I always emphasized this amp thing until I saw how wild people can run with the idea and taking it to such an extreme in cases where it is not applicable. All it shows is that they don't truly understand the concept and simply believe what they hear from others. In the case of this guitar, anyone with ears will tell you that the guitar sounds terrific, and anyone who says "the amp is a bigger contributor to that tone" simply does not know what they're talking about or they are ignoring what they're hearing in favor of what they've heard from others. There is the tone of the guitar and then there is how an amp colors the tone of that guitar.


exactly, agreed. I hate when you say something which is meant to be for a specific case, and next time you check back, another bandwagon has started. as you said, there are some very general rules of thumb, but that's all they are. Not strict rules, and they're flexible depending on the person, his/her specific situation, his/her current gear, etc. etc.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#20
Quote by al112987
An amp will color the sound, but a good amp will let the true voice of the guitar come through, no matter what.



Why doesn't everyone play through EQ pedals and power amps? I don't want to colour my £600 tone, do you?
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#21
Quote by Juadafi
Why doesn't everyone play through EQ pedals and power amps? I don't want to colour my £600 tone, do you?
again, way to take things out of context, why don't you read what I said...?
through what is imo, a good amp, the amp will color the tone with it's own tone but also let the guitar's voice come through.
I never said the amp coloring your tone is bad, no doubt an amp is going to color your tone, especially a tube amp, it will leave it's fingerprint but it needs to do so whilst letting the guitar's natural tone come through.
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 4, 2009,
#22
This is a great sounding guitar and amp combo. You have to think of the guitar and amp as basically the same instrument like Yngwie once said. If one lacks it you will hear it. Thats why you see guys getting so upset at kids for buying expensive guitars and playing them through a Spider III.
#23
Quote by fretz86
This is a great sounding guitar and amp combo. You have to think of the guitar and amp as basically the same instrument like Yngwie once said. If one lacks it you will hear it. Thats why you see guys getting so upset at kids for buying expensive guitars and playing them through a Spider III.
^This is correct here, and probably the best way to look at it.

Some people need to stop trying to put black and white restrictions and hard set rules on things like what affects tone more. Dave put it best in a very straightforward fashion, they are not strict rules. People really need to start using their ears more, the amp matters, but the guitar also matters, and guitar players ought to be listening for that more than jumping on bandwagons.

I can confidently say you will get closer to Jimmy Page's tone with an authentic '59 les paul with the right kind of PAFs and a Fender tweed than you will with an Epiphone into a Marshall superlead.

I can also confidently say that you will get closer to Duane Allman's Fillmore East tone with an Epiphone into a Marshall 50 watt bass plexi with Cerwin Vegas than you will with a '59 into a Fender tweed. In fact, I will go ahead and say that you will get closer with an Epiphone, bass plexi and Cerwin Vegas than you will with a '59, bass plexi and Celestion G12H30s. Anyone who has played through a Marshall with JBLDF120s or CV-ER123s will tell you that. Are we gonna start a new rule that says "speakers affect your sound WAAYYY more than your amp"?

Having a good amp is important, no where did I ever say it wasn't, but it is not always the biggest factor in one's tone. Not every amp discussion revolves around Spiders and MGs. You don't always have to go with the advice you've picked up in other threads about "your amp will affect your tone way more than your pickups and guitar will!" Because not everyone owns a crappy amp.

TL;DR - the guitar matters folks, and it matters a lot, particularly when you have a good amp rig, and if you are honestly don't think so, you either need to play more guitars or need better hearing. Not everyone has a ****ty amp guys, there are times when you are allowed to say that the guitar is doing some of that work.
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 4, 2009,
#24
Quote by al112987
That's not how it works. An amp will color the sound, but a good amp will let the true voice of the guitar come through, no matter what. And trying to say that the amp was more responsible for the tone you're hearing is just asinine. Instead, you try telling me that if he pulls a 1959 historic or even a crappier sounding authentic '59 burst, it will sound even close to that. The amp itself is nice enough sounding, but the qualities that are coming in through the guitar by far outshine any merits the amp has. Plus, you NEED a good amp to hear what the guitar really sounds like. I assure you that if you stuck an Epiphone les paul special through that amp, it would sound like crap.

The effect of an amplifier is so underrated in many cases that people are overrating it's effect in cases where you have an incredible sounding guitar at work. That tone that you hear is pure les paul, that slight honk, that flute-y tone on the neck pickup, that hollow, woody, sound of the bridge, that is all les paul, the amp has nothing to do with those. You will get those qualities through just about any amp that doesn't suck balls.

The reason why that tone sounds so good is the guitar, NOT the amp. Which is ironic, because it's heavy for a burst and it's bridge pickup is very overwound for a PAF, ingredients that are typically looked down upon for guitars of it's kind.


100% true.

That is a great Les Paul. I remember when I put in my Bareknuckles in my Les Paul. Suddenly I had a tone that was JUST like you described. So yeah, this is a fantastic guitar. I like the guy a bit, he's quite funny IMO. Unlike the guy who demos Marshall...
Quote by stratman_13
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#25
Quote by Gabel
100% true.

That is a great Les Paul. I remember when I put in my Bareknuckles in my Les Paul. Suddenly I had a tone that was JUST like you described. So yeah, this is a fantastic guitar. I like the guy a bit, he's quite funny IMO. Unlike the guy who demos Marshall...
Chris George? Yeah I hate that guy, everything he touches sounds bad.
#26
Quote by al112987
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRnXiHGQBSs

Yes, I started a topic based on this youtube video, but this has got to be, hands down, one of the best sounding guitars I think I've ever heard, even with the crappy youtube quality. And it has the best sounding neck pickup I've ever heard in a guitar, as well as the fattest sounding bridge PAF I think I've ever heard of, 9.14k, just shows how much variance there was in these things, the PAFs that I've played all measured in at under 8.5k.

*waits for someone to come in saying that it sounds the same as any other les paul*


That really is the best sounding LP I've heard on youtube, thanks for sharing that. Speaking of 9.14k, my all-time favourite pickup is the SD Custom Shop '78 model (just put an order in for my second one) and its measured at.....9.1k
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#27
Fretted Americana just has a ton of awesome guitars. They're like the Pro Guitar Shop for guitars, great demos and great recordings. This burst is amazing too, actually I think the bridge pickup on this one is just about perfect, if I could combine the bridge tone of this guitar with the neck tone of that 1960 it would probably be the greatest sounding instrument I've ever heard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6zJJ3Cyo8s

that one just has a little more bite and sting and sounds a little less "overweight" if you will. But it's one of those with a hotter neck than bridge.

As for the 9.1k thing, I guess there are a lot of great PAF style pickups wound to that spec, it's definitely on the hotter end of the spectrum but the WCR Godwoods are around there, so are the Wolfetone Marshallheads. And the '78 too as you pointed out which is a great pickup as well.
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 4, 2009,
#28
Yea seems like the 9.1k range seems to be the sweet spot for PAF's, interesting.
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#30
Quote by GreenDay0013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhzDOLHRAMg

Phil X back in the '80s as a guitar buckling youth! He's actually a very accomplished session guitarist, which is how he manages to play so many styles as well as he does.

It's hard not to like him watching his videos. Guy is just a great player and has great taste in music, and is pretty much a library of riffs and licks.
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 4, 2009,
#31
Quote by al112987
Chris George? Yeah I hate that guy, everything he touches sounds bad.


Yeah I know. He seems to think he's incredbly cool.

Phil X I do like, because he seems to know what he's talking about, but he's very much a player and does some great riffs and licks, but has a sense of fun about it!

But Al, thanks for the demo it was great!

A bit off-topic, but I also recieved my new electronics for my Les Paul today. The old one was out, so I'm putting in some CTS pots, Switchcraft jack and switch and a set of NOS paper-in-oil caps!
Quote by stratman_13
It's okay Gabel. You kick ass.



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#33
Quote by al112987
^This is correct here, and probably the best way to look at it.

Some people need to stop trying to put black and white restrictions and hard set rules on things like what affects tone more. Dave put it best in a very straightforward fashion, they are not strict rules. People really need to start using their ears more, the amp matters, but the guitar also matters, and guitar players ought to be listening for that more than jumping on bandwagons.

I can confidently say you will get closer to Jimmy Page's tone with an authentic '59 les paul with the right kind of PAFs and a Fender tweed than you will with an Epiphone into a Marshall superlead.

I can also confidently say that you will get closer to Duane Allman's Fillmore East tone with an Epiphone into a Marshall 50 watt bass plexi with Cerwin Vegas than you will with a '59 into a Fender tweed. In fact, I will go ahead and say that you will get closer with an Epiphone, bass plexi and Cerwin Vegas than you will with a '59, bass plexi and Celestion G12H30s. Anyone who has played through a Marshall with JBLDF120s or CV-ER123s will tell you that. Are we gonna start a new rule that says "speakers affect your sound WAAYYY more than your amp"?

Having a good amp is important, no where did I ever say it wasn't, but it is not always the biggest factor in one's tone. Not every amp discussion revolves around Spiders and MGs. You don't always have to go with the advice you've picked up in other threads about "your amp will affect your tone way more than your pickups and guitar will!" Because not everyone owns a crappy amp.

TL;DR - the guitar matters folks, and it matters a lot, particularly when you have a good amp rig, and if you are honestly don't think so, you either need to play more guitars or need better hearing. Not everyone has a ****ty amp guys, there are times when you are allowed to say that the guitar is doing some of that work.


Agreed (well, except for the allman brothers stuff, I'm sure you're right, just I'm not that familiar with them ).

Especially this bit: "Some people need to stop trying to put black and white restrictions and hard set rules on things like what affects tone more."
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?