#1
im in a pop punk kinda band and i'm looking to complicate my guitar a little more. im getting kinda sick of just using the major scale and basic chord progressions off of it. what other kinds of scales can i use?
Quote by captaincrunk
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Try WebMD.


Quote by MH400
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#2
Well you have quite a few, start learning modes, they are excellent tools, there are 7 totally. Once you figure out modes they are simple and very fun to use, ahh damn, I had a handy website that showed all the modes in a fretboard diagram and explained them to you. Also, if you don't want to learn very much and want a new soloing technique try using Pentatonic Scales. They are used in a lot of punk and rock and Jimmy Page from Led Zeppelin used almost all pentatonic. http://www.myguitarworkshop.com/Theory/Guitar_Pentatonic_Scales/Guitar-Major-Pentatonic-Scale-Box-Patterns.htm that is a handy website for major pentatonic scales. http://www.myguitarworkshop.com/Theory/Guitar_Pentatonic_Scales/Guitar-Minor-Pentatonic-Scale-Box-Patterns.htm here is a good one for minor pentatonic, hope I helped at all and let me know if you like these scales more.
#3
Quote by goldenslumbers
Well you have quite a few, start learning modes, they are excellent tools, there are 7 totally. Once you figure out modes they are simple and very fun to use, ahh damn, I had a handy website that showed all the modes in a fretboard diagram and explained them to you. Also, if you don't want to learn very much and want a new soloing technique try using Pentatonic Scales. They are used in a lot of punk and rock and Jimmy Page from Led Zeppelin used almost all pentatonic. http://www.myguitarworkshop.com/Theory/Guitar_Pentatonic_Scales/Guitar-Major-Pentatonic-Scale-Box-Patterns.htm that is a handy website for major pentatonic scales. http://www.myguitarworkshop.com/Theory/Guitar_Pentatonic_Scales/Guitar-Minor-Pentatonic-Scale-Box-Patterns.htm here is a good one for minor pentatonic, hope I helped at all and let me know if you like these scales more.


TS, ignore modes. For a long, long time. With the music you're playing, you'll probably never use them. You know major, so now just learn how the minor scale is related to that. Pentatonics added to that, and you'll be good to go. Develop your phrasing, I think that's the most important part.
#6
one thing i figured out doing is using a bunch of strange chords in combination with the power chords of major scales for small little fill tones that's been helping. i know the minor pentatonic scales fairly well but i probably should learn the modes. i want my music to be semi-complicated but with that still punk pop rock tone.

thanks for the help btw :]
Quote by captaincrunk
This isn't a guitar forum.

Try WebMD.


Quote by MH400
www.ultimate-guitar.com

#7
Quote by fear-the-reaper
one thing i figured out doing is using a bunch of strange chords in combination with the power chords of major scales for small little fill tones that's been helping. i know the minor pentatonic scales fairly well but i probably should learn the modes. i want my music to be semi-complicated but with that still punk pop rock tone.

thanks for the help btw :]


modes...

You don't need modes. And when you think you've learned them, I can almost guarantee that you haven't. You're not going to use modes in pop-punk music.

Master the major/minor scale. This is your greatest tool. By master, I don't mean memorize shapes. Memorize the notes in all 12 (15 if you learn the enharmonic) major/minor keys. Memorize the notes of the fretboard. Learn how to harmonize the major scale. This will get you so much farther than trying to understand modes.
#8
Quote by timeconsumer09
TS, ignore modes. For a long, long time. With the music you're playing, you'll probably never use them. You know major, so now just learn how the minor scale is related to that. Pentatonics added to that, and you'll be good to go. Develop your phrasing, I think that's the most important part.


No, definately learn the modes. They are extremely useful for certain chord progressions and you can use them for soloing and to create different sounds if you know which chords fit in the mode formulas.
#9
Quote by seeneyj
No, definately learn the modes. They are extremely useful for certain chord progressions and you can use them for soloing and to create different sounds if you know which chords fit in the mode formulas.


Okay, then 'seeneyj'... Please explain to me the importance and usage of modes in modern music. Hell, explain to me what modes are (in your understanding). What is the proper situation in which you'd use C phrygian in a truly modal context? How about E locrian?

(I came to this next conclusion from reading posts by xxdarrenxx and others. Sorry if I spelled your username wrong, I can never remember exactly what it is)

Modes are hardly ever used in modern music in a truly modal setting. The most logical way to use modes is through studying the parallel modes. Let me explain. There are two main ways I see of looking at modes:

"Parallel" modes, in which you look at modes as relating to other modes of the same tonic. i.e. compare C lydian to C ionian, or C phrygian to C aeolian. Same tonics, different intervals/notes. This is the type of studying modes I'll be referring to for the rest of the post unless I specify otherwise.

"Relative" modes, in which you look at modes as relating to the same notes with a different tonic. i.e. compare C ionain to D dorian, or B locrian to F lydian. Same notes, different tonics.

As I stated above, the most useful (in my opinion) way to study modes for use in modern music is looking at parallel modes. This allows you to do a number of things. First, it breaks you out of the mindset that modes are "the same scale starting on a different note". This is an all-too-common misconception that many guitarists share. Modes are, in fact, NOT the same scale starting on a different note; which brings us to... Second, parallel modes allows you to see modes as alterations of a scale rather than scales on their own. An example:

I have a progression in the key of C. It's strictly diatonic, so using the C major (or even safer, major pentatonic) scale would be safe to use. Sticking with chord tones, I can come up with a fairly decent-sounding improvisation. I feel this is starting to sound stale, though. What can I do to add a little more to my solo? Accidentals are a great place to start. But how can I choose which accidentals to use? This is where parallel modes commes in. I know the sound of the modes. I know I really like the sound of the b2 in Phrygian. Say I have a V7 chord coming up. If you know about tritone substitutions, you know that a V7 chord in any key can be replaced by a bII7 chord. Knowing this, I know I can hit a b2 over a V7 chord that's leading to the I chord for a nice chromatic resolution (b2 to 1).

If that's over your head, don't worry. It will make sense if you take the time to really look at the modes in this way. First, there are some things you should know before you start to even THINK about studying modes:

1. Constructing a major scale starting on ANY note (or at least the 15 keys)
2. Constructing a minor scale starting on ANY note (or at least the 15 keys)
3. Harmonizing the major scale
4. Good knowledge of chord construction, extensions, alterations, and substitutions (in major and minor keys)
5. All about harmonic minor and melodic minor (HOW they are constructed, WHY they exist, etc.)

If you have a solid (and I mean SOLID) grasp of these concepts, you might be ready to start looking at modes. If not, keep studying the above items. They should be enough to keep you busy for a while, and will serve you well for most of your songwriting/playing purposes.

A good way to begin studying modes is experimentation. Here are the formulas for the modes as compared to the major scale:

Lydian: 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7
Ionian (major): 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Mixolydian: 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7
Dorian: 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
Aeolian (natural minor): 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
Phrygian: 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
Locrian:P 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7

I list them in this order to show how each mode differs from the others. I put lydian first because it's the only mode with a raised interval. From there, you can see how each successive mode has a different alteration. Now you need to know the individual sounds that modes have...

Experimenting with modes is easy (and vital if you want to learn them). Say you want to familiarize yourself with how Lydian sounds (in this example, in the key of C). A good way to do this is to record a droning Cmaj7 chord and play over it. See how the #4 can create tension and find out how to resolve that tension. I suggest doing this for each mode to get familiar with how they sound. Because you understand harmonizing, you can construct chords to drone behind each mode on your own. If you can't, then you didn't learn what I suggested and you should go back and learn it.

Once you have the sound of each mode in your head, you can use that knowledge to apply it to solos/improvisations. Like I gave in my example above, you can take the chords in the progression you're playing over and decide which accidentals to apply based on what you know about the sound of the modes.

I hope this hasn't been too confusing. Now, this isn't to say modes can't be used to creat purely modal music. But I don't know enough about that subject to explain it, as I assume is the case with almost all people on this site.

I hope this helps clear things up.
#11
harmonic minor is your friend
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