#1
First things first, sorry for another which amp thread but I searchbar'd and couldn't find anything. I've been GAS'ing so much recently as I hate my current setup, but other people would like it a lot more than me and I feel ungrateful. Anyways...

I haven't got barely any money, although lets say I'm on a budget of around 800 GBP absolute maximum due to what I can sell, the time I'm prepared to wait and what I can get out of gift situations, bank account, etc.

I would ideally like a 2x12 combo now to then be used with a cab, most likely with v30's or a mix in it. Fully tubed ofcourse.

I do play metal in a band, and I love a huge chuggy sound so this is what I've kinda set my mindset on... (both used and from ebay in the end)

The Marshall JCM: (anything apart from the 2000 series I guess but lt me know about them if they are good, but if someone could point me the the direction of what the differences between the 600/800/900 are that would be great, but I would get one with a clean and dirty channel and parallell loop and be prepared to buy a modded one.)

These frequently appear online and go for ridiculously lower prices compared to a new JCM in a shop.
But obviously, its a JCM, and I'm not going to get a lot of metal tone headroom if you know what I mean, just one with the gain on 10 I guess lol.
So, if I were to choose this amp, how would I set it up to get a convienient switch between clean and metal, without loosing the whole point on the JCM's awesomeness.
dist pedal? overdrive? and where would it go and which channel?

Average price on Ebay: 300-600 maybe? varies a lot.


Peavey 5150 combo:

As far as I'm aware, this SHOULD be my choice, as it's brilliant for metal and its just badass.
But they much less frequently appear online as nobody is ever in the position that they would need to sell it, the JCM's are usually old and people lose interest or need for them.
Tbh, I would rather have the Marshall because of its rock nature and because they have been an important part of music history and I'm just like that, even though the 5150 has been aswell haha.
Also I have heard about the Bugera copy of it, forgotten the correct number, but its meant to be just as good, more features, a nicer clean and cheaper but less reliable, so if that should be an option too, let me know and I'll research.

Average price on Ebay: Not a bloody clue, sorry guys, but when I find out, depending on what I think of each, I will make the choice in which one would be better both tone and moneywise in the future.


I cant think of anything else to mention but I will edit if I remember.
Oh yeah.. I was thinking, yeah 50 watts, I know I'll never need 100, but at the last second, I heard that the whole, poweramp tube saturation story, blah blah, is mean't to be only good for rock and stuff pretty much other than metal, and only preamp tube saturation is good for metal? Insight on this would be appreciated.. I think that 100 watts would not be a whole lot more to pay for online anyways as prices can vary incredible amounts.
And I live in Essex, England.

Sorry for asking so much from you all, problem is its TERRIBLY hard to try ANYTHING out where I live, down to poor choice and **** customer service in all the shops I can travel to

Feel free to suggest me an amp aswell if you really think I will be making the wrong decision!

Thanks in advance!!
#2
what is your budget?
what are ALL The genres you play?
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#3
hey Alfred he said 800 GBP. Far as I can tell he only does metal. For which I would go with the Bugera and follow the instructions on here for debugging it.
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#4
for the money im sure you may be able to find a mesa dual rectifier which in my opinion blows marshall and peavy outta the water.. but thats just my two cents
#5
^ £800? Maybe the f or dc series yes. Unless of course you mean the rectoverb or termoverb, then there is a slight possibility.

If your looking for a dual rectifier head, you might get lucky to get for £800 but he still needs money on a cab.
#6
Quote by Bigaxmax
I would ideally like a 2x12 combo now to then be used with a cab, most likely with v30's or a mix in it. Fully tubed ofcourse.

I do play metal in a band, and I love a huge chuggy sound so this is what I've kinda set my mindset on... (both used and from ebay in the end)

The Marshall JCM: (anything apart from the 2000 series I guess but lt me know about them if they are good, but if someone could point me the the direction of what the differences between the 600/800/900 are that would be great, but I would get one with a clean and dirty channel and parallell loop and be prepared to buy a modded one.)
I have had no experience with the 600, but the 900 is in some ways an upgraded version of the 800. The 800 only has one channel with a minimal amount of gain. It doesn't quite cope in the clean departement, either.

The 900 is then a dual channel amp with a slightly improved clean sound and more distortion. But because of that, it adds compression. And in this case, more bass. The 800 has a rawer tone that more bite, while the 900 is more liquid-like and bassy.

These frequently appear online and go for ridiculously lower prices compared to a new JCM in a shop.
But obviously, its a JCM, and I'm not going to get a lot of metal tone headroom if you know what I mean, just one with the gain on 10 I guess lol.
So, if I were to choose this amp, how would I set it up to get a convienient switch between clean and metal, without loosing the whole point on the JCM's awesomeness.
dist pedal? overdrive? and where would it go and which channel?

Average price on Ebay: 300-600 maybe? varies a lot.
If you plan on using the Marshall amps for a clean tone, followed by an overdrive/distortion pedal as your driven tones, I personally think you're barking up the wrong tree. For me, a Marshall shines when you crank the volume and tweak the EQ settings to how you like it. The gain doesn't need to be dimed (doing so can cause a lot of fizz and feedback at such high volumes) as the actual preamp and power valves are naturally distorting because they are being pushed beyong their "clean potential". But that's only practical if you are playing live or jamming with a loud drummer (or don't mind getting hearing damage)

Peavey 5150 combo:

As far as I'm aware, this SHOULD be my choice, as it's brilliant for metal and its just badass.
But they much less frequently appear online as nobody is ever in the position that they would need to sell it, the JCM's are usually old and people lose interest or need for them.
Tbh, I would rather have the Marshall because of its rock nature and because they have been an important part of music history and I'm just like that, even though the 5150 has been aswell haha.
Also I have heard about the Bugera copy of it, forgotten the correct number, but its meant to be just as good, more features, a nicer clean and cheaper but less reliable, so if that should be an option too, let me know and I'll research.

Average price on Ebay: Not a bloody clue, sorry guys, but when I find out, depending on what I think of each, I will make the choice in which one would be better both tone and moneywise in the future.
I've seen the 6505/5150 combos on ebay relatively often for around the £500-700 mark.
To be honest, the 5150 has had arguably, more importance on rock than the JCM800 series has.
The Bugera amps sound nice, but not everyone likes them. They don't have that "raw" quality that the 800 and 5150 have. It's more processed and compressed sounding. They are, obviously, cheaper, but the reliability then suffers because of it. They are definitely something to look into. Don't disregard them, in any way.

I cant think of anything else to mention but I will edit if I remember.
Oh yeah.. I was thinking, yeah 50 watts, I know I'll never need 100, but at the last second, I heard that the whole, poweramp tube saturation story, blah blah, is mean't to be only good for rock and stuff pretty much other than metal, and only preamp tube saturation is good for metal? Insight on this would be appreciated.. I think that 100 watts would not be a whole lot more to pay for online anyways as prices can vary incredible amounts.
And I live in Essex, England.

Sorry for asking so much from you all, problem is its TERRIBLY hard to try ANYTHING out where I live, down to poor choice and **** customer service in all the shops I can travel to

Feel free to suggest me an amp aswell if you really think I will be making the wrong decision!

Thanks in advance!!
Poweramp overdrive is perfect for any genre. Preamp distortion is processed, in comparison. But the problem with that, is you have to crank the amp to reach those poweramp levels of overdrive.
If you take a look at a mile-stone in the metal amp industry, Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier, you'll see that most of the tone is often found from the preamp section, and when you push the volume higher, the poweramp valves come into play and tighten up the tone. While the 5150, another milestone in metal amps, has, in my eyes, poor preamp gain. Even more so than the Rectifier series. Marshall have similar problems.

If you are not gigging, 5-30 watts is all you'll ever need. Many large, stadium bands gig with 30 watt amps, anyway, they just play it through a 4x12. 100 watts is overkill, in my eyes.

What exact styles of metal do you play? Band examples, for instance?
#7
Thanks for everyones input, I got a lot from those posts.

Main influences and bands I play are like... the argueably most 'rock' tone in metal for example would be the older Metallica stuff, and the kinda most 'heavy' tone is bands like Unearth, Killswitch, Chimaira, Lamb of God etc etc, nearly every metal heads fav bands.

Now... tbh, i don't think that what genres I play should really make so much difference when deciding between these amps, only because I would rather not compromise a great metal/clean style decision... I'm not making much sense.. uhh. I just want a good metal/clean sound basically, I'm not looking to play The Who or Jimi. I see what you mean, but I would like versatility (which I know I will for the price tag) but I don't really play anything else than what involves high gain and cleans, I play acoustically, but thats a whole other story. Btw I'm not narrowminded when it comes to guitar if it seems that way haha

And for the record, I don't gig a lot, but I will be soon, I do on average 2 gigs a month and a practise on average every other weekend for 4 hours in a studio. But living conditions means that cranking an amp indoors is perfectly fine, bedroom volume is only for learning, practising is different >: D

Edit:
Oh yeah, and Slayer too, but I'm not really after that tone.
Last edited by Bigaxmax at Aug 4, 2009,
#8
For what you want... the only JCM I'd really consider... is a 2000. All the Marshalls you could buy would benefit greatly from an OD. The 800 and 600 will not have enough gain for you stock, you'll need an OD to get more gain out of it, the 800 is a pretty aggressive sounding amp, but it's not a tone everyone will enjoy for metal. The 900s have significantly more gain and better cleans, but are missing the big lowend, thus it will probably need an OD too.

The 5150 is the only one I think you'd be satisfied with it's distortion tone right away. But the cleans aren't the greatest. However, people give the cleans a really bad rep, they are not nearly as bad as people make them out to be, they are certainly usable, just don't expect anything spectacular.

If you're getting a combo, the Marshalls will come with better stock speakers.
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Last edited by MatrixClaw at Aug 4, 2009,
#9
#10
all i have to say is that i would stay away from a 5150. you could boost a jcm 800 and get an awesome metal tone but it would take getting used to because its not what you hear in every band
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#11
I really did think the 2000 series would be the best choice, but after reading up everyones opinion is that you just can't beat the 600/800/900 JCM's.. and since they are cheaper on ebay I thought.. why not? haha

And, thanks for the list! im gonna have a good look up now
#12
hmmm. they all seem interesting... AngryGoldfish, which one would you suggest?
only the bugera and laney seem appealing to me at the moment...
#13
Quote by Bigaxmax
I really did think the 2000 series would be the best choice, but after reading up everyones opinion is that you just can't beat the 600/800/900 JCM's.. and since they are cheaper on ebay I thought.. why not? haha

And, thanks for the list! im gonna have a good look up now

From what I've heard, the 600 is like a lower gain 900. The only 900 I'd really buy is an MKIII or an SL-X.

The 600 is more for rock, not metal. The 800 will need a boost and really need to be turned up loud to dial out the harsh treble they have at low volumes. Even then, they are still on the bright side and the palm mutes, when boosted, will have more of a chainsaw solid-state type grind, instead of the huge thunderous lowend the 5150 would have.

The 2000s have enough gain by themselves for modern metal. An OD will make them a bit tighter and thicken up the lowend. They are very articulate with the right tubes and OD pedal. This will also be the most versatile of the amps you're consider imo.

The 5150 is still best for all-out metal though. The 2000 will have a more unique tone though.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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#14
The Laney is better than the Bugera, by a long shot. But it is considerably more British in it's voicing, and is not as compressed in the bass area. If you like tonnes of gain and power, the Bugera is more advisable. But if you want an amp to respond to your playing and to have very crystal tones, the Laney is better. Check Youtube clips, and search the amp as much as you can through Google. If you can find one, try one out! They are brilliant amps for your money.
#15
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#17
Hmm, I just looked up the switchblade on youtube, it looks really good. I'm very very tempted, and I reckon I would go with the bugera over the laney anyways and end up fixing it up over time, since its far cheaper than all the rest.
The only thing that I dislike about the switchblade, is that its only a 1x12, I know it doesnt make a world of difference, but for me, I'd much rather have 2 speakers for such an awesome and expensive amp, putting a small 1x12 on top on a 2x12/4x12 would look rather silly too, even if it sounds badass.

would it be wrong to say the switchblade is essentially how line 6 should have made the spiders?
#18
Quote by Bigaxmax
would it be wrong to say the switchblade is essentially how line 6 should have made the spiders?

Similar, (to the Spider Valve) but not nearly the same. The Switchblade does not model any amps, it is it own amp. The effects it has in it are higher quality and are only modulation effects. The Switchblade destroys the Spider in tonal capabilities. It also comes in a 2x12 model.

The Laney GH50L is also a great amp, I really like those, but they're a bit limited with one channel. The Bugeras sound nice but have a pretty high fail rate, not very reliable at all unless you do mods.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#19
Ahh wow, I swear I didn't see a 2x12 in the demo video, and they had a huge array of stacks of the Switchblade xD and yeah, true it doesnt model amps, but it comes with a lot of presets which is just what reminded me thats all lol.

Anyways.. the Bugera or the Laney are now my higher choices, dont get me wrong, if a deal for a JCM or 5150 comes along at a mega low price I will just jump at it and figure out what to do after xD, but I like the look of the Bugera a lot.

And yes, without a shadow of a doubt, within a week of purchase it would be open and in pieces on the floor, soldering away >: D oh, and a speaker swap and as soon as I would have the money and they start going crappy a tube swap ofcourse.
#20
I like the JCM 2000 DSL.... for some reason the TSL just isn't that good.... I am currently researching buying a new amp, and the more I look into the JCM 2000 the more I am growing to love it. It is an improvement over the 900 and 800, and I loved it when I spent an hour with it this past sunday. I dunno, i think we are the same mindset- its a Marshall!
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#21
haha, true, and the other week I was in EXACTLY the same mindset, I WANTED a DSL, and I had discovered that the TSL is crap haha.

If anyone knows where the thread or webpage is for debugging/fixing up or whatever you wanna call it, for the Bugera 6262 is, then pointing me in the direction would be a great help since I can't find it