#2
Not sure what you mean, man. If its an "amended" Aeolian mode, its not really the Aeolian mode anymore...
Equipment:
Gibson SG Special Faded
Fender Standard Telecaster
Fender 50th Anniversary Stratocaster
Guild D-40 Richie Havens Signature Model
Fender Standard Jazz Bass
#3
that video is too long for me to watch . . .

but i believe that melodic minor is the 6th mode.

Edit : 6th mode = aeolien
Sorryz for me bad engrish.

Quote by OnlyIbanez12
I just cut myself shaving my pubes...
Last edited by Geezus at Aug 4, 2009,
#4
There can be modes to other scales other than the major scale right? Like Hitzas, a mode used in Turkish and Greek music, is a mode of the harmonic minor or something like that.

I dont know if thats true. Anyways, not saying that has anything to do with what you posted, just something I thought of mentioning.
#5
the melodic minor isnt included in the standard church mode system ie: aeolian,ionian etc... although it is possible to construct modes based on the melodic minor just like those based oin the harmonic minor
ಠ_ಠ
<|>
/ω\



Tell me what nation on this earth, was not born of tragedy-Primordial
#6
Now that I think about it again, I think that only minor descending are in the classic modal system. The minor ascending have a # on the 6th and 7th notes and therefore are no more considered in the same modal system.

Edit : I'm not sure of what i am saying. But i believe it is logic.
Sorryz for me bad engrish.

Quote by OnlyIbanez12
I just cut myself shaving my pubes...
Last edited by Geezus at Aug 4, 2009,
#7
Quote by Eggmond
the melodic minor isnt included in the standard church mode system ie: aeolian,ionian etc... although it is possible to construct modes based on the melodic minor just like those based oin the harmonic minor



okay thanks.


it was just because he was calling it a mode. i guess anything is a mode because is mode is just a way of doing something.
#8
Quote by Serg1
okay thanks.


it was just because he was calling it a mode. i guess anything is a mode because is mode is just a way of doing something.


No, the term "mode" refers to a specific concept. Melodic minor is not a mode, it is a convention used in minor tonality to achieve a smoother melodic line.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#9
I don't think that guy knows what he's talking about at all... which is typically the case with these videos.

Anyway, you can construct modes out of any scale. They won't necessarily be possible to play or be stable enough to even want to play though. They might even be identical, depending on the scale. Melodic minor isn't really a scale and making modes from it has no real purpose. Stick to major and minor.
#10
Melodic minor isn't really a scale? I beg to differ. Whilst it is true that in classical harmony the the melodic minor scale was used to ascend and natural minor to descend (I know that a melodic minor 'scale' is what is being debated, but you know what i mean) as Archeo said this was to keep a smooth melodic line, this was because descending in melodic minor was considered too dissonant.

However the melodic minor scale and the modes of the melodic minor scale are really extremely important in jazz. In fact, they are far more so than the harmonic minor, which isn't even included in most jazz textbooks and university courses. The melodic minor scale as a jazz player would use it is like a major scale with a minor third.
#11
Quote by Sam_Vimes
Melodic minor isn't really a scale? I beg to differ. Whilst it is true that in classical harmony the the melodic minor scale was used to ascend and natural minor to descend (I know that a melodic minor 'scale' is what is being debated, but you know what i mean) as Archeo said this was to keep a smooth melodic line, this was because descending in melodic minor was considered too dissonant.

However the melodic minor scale and the modes of the melodic minor scale are really extremely important in jazz. In fact, they are far more so than the harmonic minor, which isn't even included in most jazz textbooks and university courses. The melodic minor scale as a jazz player would use it is like a major scale with a minor third.


Harmonic minor forms the basis of Western minor tonality, regardless of the genre. Functional harmony in a minor tonality is nearly impossible without a leading tone. The idea that it is somehow unimportant in jazz is ridiculous. The overwhelming majority of jazz harmony is functional and firmly rooted in the major and minor scales, and the overlying melody is generally based on those same major and minor scales.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#12
The thread is about modes, I assumed we were not talking about modal tunes, but as scales for use when improvising or writing lead lines. I was perhaps inexact in my treatment of harmonic minor however in the context I felt it obvious enough; to clarify: the harmonic minor scale and it's associated modes are not given much if any consideration by jazz reference books or by jazz courses for their use as improvisational tools or to write lead lines with.

Thread's about melody lines. And I disagree with your assertion that the melody in jazz is generally based on the major and natural minor scales. The melodic minor scale, the altered scale, the locrian #2 scale, the lydian dominant scale and the lydian augmented scale are used extensively in jazz and have been used so for over 40 years.
#13
The thread is about modes, I assumed we were not talking about modal tunes, but as scales for use when improvising or writing lead lines. I was perhaps inexact in my treatment of harmonic minor however in the context I felt it obvious enough; to clarify: the harmonic minor scale and it's associated modes are not given much if any consideration by jazz reference books or by jazz courses for their use as improvisational tools or to write lead lines with.


The thread is about melodic minor, and we're talking (for some reason) about its use and the use of its modes in jazz.

Second, you don't get to change your argument for no reason in the middle of the debate. First you claim that harmonic minor is virtually absent in jazz, and now that you've been shown to be wrong, you've moved the goalpost and have changed your claim to "Harmonic minor isn't frequently used when constructing lead lines". Keep your argument consistent.

Jazz music is extremely rarely modal, and its harmony is almost exclusively functional and based on a major or minor tonality. Since the minor scale is almost incapable of generating functional harmony, jazz does what every other genre does and creates a leading tone. This convention is called harmonic minor.

Thread's about melody lines. And I disagree with your assertion that the melody in jazz is generally based on the major and natural minor scales. The melodic minor scale, the altered scale, the locrian #2 scale, the lydian dominant scale and the lydian augmented scale are used extensively in jazz and have been used so for over 40 years.


Modal terminology is used in jazz almost exclusively to efficiently communicate the use of specific notes over different families of chords. Actual use of modes in jazz is almost nonexistent, with the framework nearly always being either the major or minor scale with chromatic tones being thrown in as ornaments.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#14
I have not changed my argument, the thread started with a vague question about the melodic minor scale. The general response was that the melodic minor scale was unimportant. You yourself said that it was a convention to smooth lead lines rather than a scale or mode in its own right.

I merely thought I would attempt to encourage the thread starter and anyone else who was interested not to dismiss the melodic minor as previous posts would have encouraged them to. I used the harmonic minor as an example to try and show that the melodic minor scale does have relative importance that was all, and I stand by what I said: the modes of the melodic minor scale and the scale itself are discussed extensively in jazz textbooks, the harmonic minor scale and it's modes are not.

My original post didn't mention harmony, you started talking about it... all I did was correct your interpretation of what I had said. I was not changing what I was saying, and I 'get' to do whatever I please thankyou very much. I wished to add to the discussion on the melodic minor scale, it's not about trying to argue someone down... something I fear you have lost sight of, which is a shame.
#15
I'm not sure what jazz has to do with the price of fish but...

TS - Neither harmonic or melodic minor are modes of the major scale. Both the melodic and harmonic minor scales can be derived by modifying the natural minor scale. Harmonic minor is natural minor with a #7, melodic minor is natural minor with a #6 and #7.

Harmonic and melodic minor both have their own set of modes, which are derived from those scales in much the same way as modes are derived from the major scale.

If he's saying G melodic minor is the 'parent' scale, that means he's deriving modes from G melodic minor - in the same way that D dorian, E phrygian etc have C Major as their parent scale.