#1
i know some of these questions mite seem basic but i am a self-taught guitarist and sometimes i skip things (on accident usually)

1) if A minor is relative to C major is a minor also called natural minor or is the natural minor something different? if so what?

2) what kinds of chords would i use with the pentatonic scale?

3) when would i use augmented and diminished chords? with what scales?
#2
1. not sure if theyre even related, natural minors a scale.
2. i think it depends on what key your in.
3. when ever you want a brighter, or sadder sound than usual. don't knoq about the scales.
im self-taught too so i dont know much of it either
#3
-A natural minor is the Aeolian Mode of C major (scale wise) - Am is C's relative minor (chord wise)

-Pentatonic scales are usually used in rock and blues, where the I IV and V chords are usually used (relative to the bass note of the scale). Power chords, A5 (I) D5 (IV) E5 (V) in the key of A, are also very common.

-Diminished/Augmented chords don't have a perfect 5th, meaning the 5th interval is flattened or sharped (respectively).
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Last edited by guitarp_11 at Aug 5, 2009,
#4
1) Am is relative to Cmaj and vice versa. That's all.
2) Like said above, depends on what key you're in. Play with stuff though and be creative.
3) Augmented chords work in a Hamonic minor mode. That's where you use the III+ chord. Diminished chords can be used to change key or replace a V chord in a progression to add tension. There are other uses for these chords and I suggest you read the Crusade Articles to find them. They're really helpful.
#5
I think you're gonna basically need to go through the UG lessons... a few sentences in this thread probably won't fill the gaps

You'll want to focus on Modes quite a lot, because otherwise the variations between scales will ALWAYS confuse you. Modes are basically different whole-step/half-step sequences, n there are seven, so learn them and learn where they come from.

The pentatonic scale is just the major scale, the chords wont sound dissonant in a pentatonic scale, besides you'll only really want to use the pentatonic scale when soloing, otherwise you're chord progressions are gonna be limited

Augmented and Diminished chords... use them whenever you want to! That's the beauty of it. If you believe there are rights and wrongs about using chords, then quit playing altogether.

Every scale of course will have its tonal center and all that, but with the rest of your progression you can add whatever sounds good, even if it goes against the text books on music theory.

The other day, I was learning 'Under the Bridge'... the intro, D major, F# major, alternating... then the song is in the key of E, and the outro uses both A major and A minor.... Now, try telling me that you must stick to the rules, cuz that song is beautiful.
#6
Quote by funwith6strings
i know some of these questions mite seem basic but i am a self-taught guitarist and sometimes i skip things (on accident usually)

1) if A minor is relative to C major is a minor also called natural minor or is the natural minor something different? if so what?

2) what kinds of chords would i use with the pentatonic scale?

3) when would i use augmented and diminished chords? with what scales?


1. Yes, when someone says minor scale, they're normally referring to natural minor.
2. Any chords. More specifically, chords built off the scale degrees of the pentatonic scale.
3. Diminished chords resolve a half step up. I'm not sure about augmented. You don't "use" a chord for a scale.

EDIT:

You'll want to focus on Modes quite a lot, because otherwise the variations between scales will ALWAYS confuse you. Modes are basically different whole-step/half-step sequences, n there are seven, so learn them and learn where they come from.


Disregard this. Ignore modes until you have a firm grasp of the major scale (harmonizing, key signatures, etc.).
Last edited by timeconsumer09 at Aug 5, 2009,
#7
Ugh, most of the replies here stink. Despite what other posters have said, A) You don't need to know about modes at all (see timeconsumer09's edit) and B) Music Theory doesn't have rules, so there is nothing to break.

As for your questions, they can be answered, but you could probably answer them all yourself if you learn a bit of theory. I recommend these columns, as do most: http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/search.php?s=crusade&w=columns .

1. The minor scale in it's usual state is called the natural minor scale. There are a few alterations of the scale that have specific purposes and have different names. These are all taken into consideration in the name "the minor scale." It's a dynamic scale, but for the most part when someone says minor scale, they're normally referring to natural minor.
2. The pentatonic scales (major pentatonic and minor pentatonic) are used the same way as the major and minor scale. They are simply the respective scale with certain notes removed. If you take away the 4th note and 7th note of any major scale, you'll have its pentatonic equivalent. If you take away the 2nd and 6th note of any minor scale, you'll have its pentatonic equivalent too.
3. Diminished triads and augmented triads don't have as many traditional uses as the rest of the triads in the major and minor scale. It's not uncommon to build a triad with the root that's a semitone below the key. For example, in A minor, you might decide to use a G#dim. Or in D major, you might use a C#dim. They are almost always followed by the root chord. Augmented triads are less common. I'm lost for how to explain the use without you knowing more theory. So read the Crusade Columns. If anything I said here didn't make sense, just ignore it and come back to it after you've read those columns.
Last edited by Eastwinn at Aug 5, 2009,
#9
Quote by funwith6strings
i know some of these questions mite seem basic but i am a self-taught guitarist and sometimes i skip things (on accident usually)

1) if A minor is relative to C major is a minor also called natural minor or is the natural minor something different? if so what?

2) what kinds of chords would i use with the pentatonic scale?

3) when would i use augmented and diminished chords? with what scales?


1)a minor is also natural minor unless melodic or harmonic is in front of it.

2) just use this site http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/scales-to-chords.php

3)same answer as 2

Your questions were kind of confusing the way they were stated, but just go to the site, It should help.
#10
Why don't you need to know about modes?

*"because you'll never use them"...*

Typical ignorance this generation of musicians seems to be drenched with.

If you understand the relationships between modes, it adds to the puzzle in your head, making the relationship between scales easier to see. Think I'm wrong? Then by all means disregard modes and let me know how many more years you spend stuck behind the invisible wall between learning music and writing music.
#12
^ Yes, they have the same notes. But they're by no means the same thing. A minor resolves to A and C major resolves to C, and that certainly changes a lot.

voodoochild23: "Typical ignorance"? That's a pretty hefty phrase to just throw around. I am by no means ignorant of modes, nor is timeconsumer09, nor many of the regulars who give the same advice, all more knowledgeable than me. Seeing the relationship between the modes is great, but it's far more desirable to first see how the notes within the major scale and the minor scale relate, considering you will be using them the most by a mile. I'm certain that I could get to the point I am with the major scale and the minor without ever seeing the formulas for the modes.

PS: I wrote music before I knew a thing about music theory and as I've learned, I've continued to do so. I can't see how knowing about modes is essential at all.
#14
Quote by Eastwinn
If you take away the 2nd and 5th note of any minor scale, you'll have its pentatonic equivalent too.

It's the 2nd and 6th that are missing from the natural minor to make it a minor pentatonic.


1. The A minor scale is the short name for A natural minor scale. It is the relative minor to the C major scale. That means they share the same notes.
Major Scale = 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 (W W H W W W H)
Natural Minor Scale = 1 2 ♭3 4 5 ♭6 ♭7 (W H W W H W W)
C Major = C D E F G A B C
A Major = A B C♯ D E F♯ G♯ A
A Natural Minor = A B C D E F G A

C Major and A Natural Minor (aka A minor) use the same notes. They are "relative" to each other C Major being the "parent scale" and A minor being the "relative minor".


2. Pentatonic's can be used safely over any diatonic chord progression. Hence their massive popularity.

3. Diminished and Augmented chords do have a role and a function. One way is to use them in place of another chord as a substitution.

For example, if you look at a Dominant 7 chord you will notice the 3rd 5th and 7th (without the root) form a diminished triad. So the diminished triad can be used as a kind of rootless dominant 7 cord and function in a similar way. There are other ways you can use diminished chords and augmented chords but unfortunately in order to explain them properly it would take me some time - which I just don't have right now. Maybe some other time.

Your best bet would be to just play around with the chords. Soak up their sound and see if you can create something interesting with them.

Best of Luck
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Aug 5, 2009,
#15
Quote by voodoochild23
Why don't you need to know about modes?

*"because you'll never use them"...*

Typical ignorance this generation of musicians seems to be drenched with.

If you understand the relationships between modes, it adds to the puzzle in your head, making the relationship between scales easier to see. Think I'm wrong? Then by all means disregard modes and let me know how many more years you spend stuck behind the invisible wall between learning music and writing music.

Before you have a good understanding of the major scale you shouldn't be bothering with modes. And as it has been said before over 90% of western music is tonal. Of course this doesn't mean you shouldn't learn modes, but you need to have a good grasp at the basics first.
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#16
Quote by voodoochild23
Why don't you need to know about modes?

*"because you'll never use them"...*

Typical ignorance this generation of musicians seems to be drenched with.

If you understand the relationships between modes, it adds to the puzzle in your head, making the relationship between scales easier to see. Think I'm wrong? Then by all means disregard modes and let me know how many more years you spend stuck behind the invisible wall between learning music and writing music.


Saying modes are the answer he's looking for (which you did) is obviously not going to help him when he's not talking about modes whatsoever. Before learning the modes there are far more important things to learn first. Learning the modes early on without a solid grounding in music theory only makes people confused and start thinking that all modes are simply extension patterns for major and minor scales, which is certainly not the case. Modes aren't even relative in the subject to begin with.
#17
Quote by 20Tigers
It's the 2nd and 6th that are missing from the natural minor to make it a minor pentatonic.




That was stupid of me.
#18
Quote by KillahSquirrel
Learning the modes early on without a solid grounding in music theory only makes people confused and start thinking that all modes are simply extension patterns for major and minor scales, which is certainly not the case. Modes aren't even relative in the subject to begin with.


are the modes of the minor (natural minor) scale the same as the major?
#19
Quote by funwith6strings
are the modes of the minor (natural minor) scale the same as the major?


You don't have modes of the natural minor because natural minor is a mode of the major.
#20
Quote by voodoochild23
Why don't you need to know about modes?

*"because you'll never use them"...*

Typical ignorance this generation of musicians seems to be drenched with.

If you understand the relationships between modes, it adds to the puzzle in your head, making the relationship between scales easier to see. Think I'm wrong? Then by all means disregard modes and let me know how many more years you spend stuck behind the invisible wall between learning music and writing music.


I don't see how not learning the different modes has to do with writing music, people rarely write "modal" music. If you mean "modes" in terms of the different scales associated with each mode, yes they are useful, and most people will use them in more traditionally structured songs. That said, a knowledge of modes is not required to be able to write music as you seem to be saying.

People should use the word "scale" if they mean to refer to a scale, rather than "mode" to sound smarter.
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Last edited by AlanHB at Aug 6, 2009,