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#1
Ok, so I kinda had this though the other day about prayer.

It is really similar to masturbation, which is a self gratifying activity.

Praying is something that takes no resources but a small amount of time and it provides a lot of things in return.

Someone who prays can feel less guilty or better about themselves because they're "helping others" even though it requires no effort on their part, and they don't really have to do anything. They're getting something for nothing.

Just an interesting thought.

Cool story bro.

But really, what do you think? Is it simply a self gratifying action? I'd say so. You are certainly welcome to disagree with me, but it seems that way to me, as you can get a helpers high without actually helping. You can get on your high horse without actually doing ****.

Whats you opinions guise?

And no, this isn't religion thread material. This isn't about religion, its about an action, which just happens to be used in religions...But there is no argument about the actual religions in this, merely about the state of this action and its effects on people, and the motives of these people.

And no flaming religions or anything. Thats bad, m'kay?

Seriously. It is.

Tl;dr?

Masturbating and praying are both self gratifying actions that have a singular beneficiary, oneself.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#2
Prayer doesnt make you orgasm

Unless you're catholic
"Most people are trying to simplify the world. We're definitely here to complicate it." - Dad
Quote by RocksAwakening5
I you for posting this.

<-- Pretty much sums me up

8/7/09


^ I was there
#4
Quote by kxy1992
Prayer doesnt make you orgasm

Unless you're catholic


That wasn't the comparison. Its about how its self gratifying without actually effecting anyone else.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#6
how high were you when you came up with this?
I can honestly say I have really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like.


I don't always post on UG, but when I do, I post in the Pit. Stay thirsty my friends.
#7
Of course.
Human nature is naturally attracted to things that gratify the self. This is one of the primary principles of atheistic Satanism.
Satanism is a religion firmly grounded in the belief that instinct is the most important of all drives in life, and this is reflected by its principles - one of which is that any event that leads to emotional, spiritual or physical gratification without hurting others in its achievement is good.
This also rather explains the reason for human faith, as personal mental gratification is gained through belief that you will be rewarded at the end of your life. It makes sense.
Last edited by raincoffin at Aug 8, 2009,
#8
i'd have to disagree. (which you granted me permission to do)

.....tugging on your weener until gooey stuff comes out, and worshipping a higher power.....i just cant see any similarities.
#9
Quote by IMABBALLPLAYER
how high were you when you came up with this?

how high are you when you're posting this expecting pit monkeys not to cluster**** ur idea
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#10
Quote by IMABBALLPLAYER
how high were you when you came up with this?


Hugs not drugs, bra.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#11
Quote by TunerAddict
That wasn't the comparison. Its about how its self gratifying without actually effecting anyone else.


I know

I'm a Christian, so I pray. It is a self gratifying act because it makes you feel good inside (because you know you are doing the right thing). I guess your comparison can be considered true then.
"Most people are trying to simplify the world. We're definitely here to complicate it." - Dad
Quote by RocksAwakening5
I you for posting this.

<-- Pretty much sums me up

8/7/09


^ I was there
#12
If you actually believe in prayer, and you pray for other people, it couldn't be further from masturbation (unless you're masturbating for somebody else's gain, in which case please give me details).

[IN PHIL WE TRUST]


Quote by Trowzaa
I only play bots. Bots never abandon me. (´・ω・`)

#13
ummmm.......... yes they are both self gratifying... but does that make looking to a god for help/answers the same as touching your fun zone?
Balls.
#14
Quote by raincoffin
Of course.
Human nature is naturally attracted to things that gratify the self. This is one of the primary principles of atheistic Satanism.
Satanism is a religion firmly grounded in the belief that instinct is the most important of all drives in life, and this is reflected by its principles - one of which is that any event that leads to emotional, spiritual or physical gratification without hurting others in its achievement is good.
This also rather explains the reason for human faith, as personal mental gratification is gained through belief that you will be rewarded at the end of your life. It makes sense.


Thank you. This is exactly what i was looking for. I didn't know those things about Satanism! Very interesting stuff bra.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#15
on a different note.....why in the hell do religions say you cant masturbate??? i just dont understand that. why is it wrong!!?!?!???
#16
Quote by TunerAddict
Thank you. This is exactly what i was looking for. I didn't know those things about Satanism! Very interesting stuff bra.


My pleasure.
As a practicer of the religion, I find it can often interestingly mirror human nature.

Quote by TheKittenKannon
on a different note.....why in the hell do religions say you cant masturbate??? i just dont understand that. why is it wrong!!?!?!???


This is a harder one, but I believe it stems from the belief that any event that fulfills nothing is a "guilty pleasure" and detracts from faith.
It makes no sense, but then again, many things in religions...
#17
Quote by TunerAddict
Hugs not drugs, bra.


hehe... bra...

on topic, I'ma have to agree with this theory
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#18
Quote by SteveHouse
If you actually believe in prayer, and you pray for other people, it couldn't be further from masturbation (unless you're masturbating for somebody else's gain, in which case please give me details).


Please explain.

I don't quite get the connection you're making.

Let say individual A believes in go and what not and prays to help individual B.

How is that not like Masturbation?

He may think he is helping individual B and doing good, but he is most certainly benefiting form this as well. He feels good. He is doing something he is supposed to do according to his religion. Its a self gratifying action either way. You can't do something for others that doesn't in some way benefit yourself. If you weren't benefiting, you wouldn't do it.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#19
Quote by TheKittenKannon
on a different note.....why in the hell do religions say you cant masturbate??? i just dont understand that. why is it wrong!!?!?!???


Murder
"Most people are trying to simplify the world. We're definitely here to complicate it." - Dad
Quote by RocksAwakening5
I you for posting this.

<-- Pretty much sums me up

8/7/09


^ I was there
#21
Quote by TheKittenKannon
on a different note.....why in the hell do religions say you cant masturbate??? i just dont understand that. why is it wrong!!?!?!???

It doesn't actually say you can't masturbate in the bible. You can masturbate all you want... it's only immoral if you are having feelings of lust towards another person during the act of masturbation.
I can honestly say I have really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like.


I don't always post on UG, but when I do, I post in the Pit. Stay thirsty my friends.
#22
Ok, so I kinda had this though the other day about cake.

It is really similar to masturbation, which is a self gratifying activity.

Getting some cake is something that takes no resources but a small amount of time and it provides a lot of things in return.

Someone who eats cake can feel less guilty or better about themselves because they're "helping others" even though it requires no effort on their part, and they don't really have to do anything. They're getting something for nothing.

Just an interesting thought.

Cool story bro.

But really, what do you think? Is it simply a self gratifying action? I'd say so. You are certainly welcome to disagree with me, but it seems that way to me, as you can get a helpers high without actually helping. You can get on your high horse without actually doing ****.

Whats you opinions guise?

And no, this isn't food class thread material. This isn't about food, its about an action, which just happens to be used in food...But there is no argument about the actual food or cake in this, merely about the state of this action and its effects on people, and the motives of these people.

And no flaming other foods or anything. Thats bad, m'kay?

Seriously. It is.

Tl;dr?

Masturbating and eating cake are both self gratifying actions that have a singular beneficiary, oneself.
#23
Quote by TunerAddict
Please explain.

I don't quite get the connection you're making.

Let say individual A believes in go and what not and prays to help individual B.

How is that not like Masturbation?

He may think he is helping individual B and doing good, but he is most certainly benefiting form this as well. He feels good. He is doing something he is supposed to do according to his religion. Its a self gratifying action either way. You can't do something for others that doesn't in some way benefit yourself. If you weren't benefiting, you wouldn't do it.

Which is the super-cynical take I was expecting you to come back with I believe atm that some members of the population truly have altruistic tendencies. Some days my faith in humanity plummets, but I'm feeling generous enough right now to believe in the idea of self-sacrifice for the betterment of others.

Not that taking fifteen seconds to pray for somebody is sacrificial, but you know what I mean. Obviously you get some sort of feeling of the warm fuzzies from it, but there are people out there who just want others to suffer less.

[IN PHIL WE TRUST]


Quote by Trowzaa
I only play bots. Bots never abandon me. (´・ω・`)

#24
You're not the first person to think of this. I've heard that the song "Praying Hands" by Devo is about that (although I haven't bothered to listen to pay attention to the lyrics).

I honestly don't see your point, or Devo's point for that matter. I don't see the similarity.

Edit: I think 'Leviathan' won. But I still hate him because he has an anime avatar.
Last edited by werty22 at Aug 8, 2009,
#25
Quote by SteveHouse
Which is the super-cynical take I was expecting you to come back with I believe atm that some members of the population truly have altruistic tendencies. Some days my faith in humanity plummets, but I'm feeling generous enough right now to believe in the idea of self-sacrifice for the betterment of others.

Not that taking fifteen seconds to pray for somebody is sacrificial, but you know what I mean. Obviously you get some sort of feeling of the warm fuzzies from it, but there are people out there who just want others to suffer less.



Yeah, they want to see them suffer less because it makes them feel bad...

Only selfish actions in this world. Some just happen to do better things for others as well as ourselves.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#26
Quote by TunerAddict
Yeah, they want to see them suffer less because it makes them feel bad...

Only selfish actions in this world. Some just happen to do better things for others as well as ourselves.

And on this point I'll agree with you until you call it selfish. I'll stop there (today) and politely disagree, old chum.

*sips tea with pinky out*

[IN PHIL WE TRUST]


Quote by Trowzaa
I only play bots. Bots never abandon me. (´・ω・`)

#28
No. I get no gratification out of praying, though you're supposed to (not in a selfish way either). I never get anything in return from praying. I guess you think that anytime people pray it's for a new car or to win the lottery... That's what ignorant people do, and it never works. People who believe in God pray for help from God, like wisdom and patience, or for someone sick to recover, etc... not for pursuits of the flesh like money or whatever.
Now that I think about it, praying for people isn't really sacrificial, but some people choose to believe even just that little bit can help.
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Last edited by salsawords at Aug 8, 2009,
#29
um no... praying is nothing like masturbation, people generally pray to get closer to god or find guidence not to cover up for something that they feel that they can fix in two seconds
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#30
Quote by salsawords
No. I get no gratification out of praying, though you're supposed to (not in a selfish way either). I never get anything in return from praying. I guess you think that anytime people pray it's for a new car or to win the lottery... That's what ignorant people do, and it never works. People who believe in God pray for help from God, like wisdom and patience, or for someone sick to recover, etc... not for pursuits of the flesh like money or whatever.


I don't believe the topic was angling quite towards this.
Simply praying can make one feel good either in anticipation or righteousness. Results were not being discussed here.
#31
Quote by raincoffin
I don't believe the topic was angling quite towards this.
Simply praying can make one feel good either in anticipation or righteousness. Results were not being discussed here.

I kind of just skimmed before I read the thread. I did me an edit that's a little more on-topic.
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#32
Quote by salsawords
No. I get no gratification out of praying, though you're supposed to (not in a selfish way either). I never get anything in return from praying. I guess you think that anytime people pray it's for a new car or to win the lottery... That's what ignorant people do, and it never works. People who believe in God pray for help from God, like wisdom and patience, or for someone sick to recover, etc... not for pursuits of the flesh like money or whatever.
Now that I think about it, praying for people isn't really sacrificial, but some people choose to believe even just that little bit can help.


If you didn't get something out of praying, you wouldn't do it. By getting something out of it, you're gratifying yourself.

Its can be as simply as feeling you're doing the right thing. That is a motive, and that is gratification.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#33
Quote by TunerAddict
Please explain.

I don't quite get the connection you're making.

Let say individual A believes in go and what not and prays to help individual B.

How is that not like Masturbation?

He may think he is helping individual B and doing good, but he is most certainly benefiting form this as well. He feels good. He is doing something he is supposed to do according to his religion. Its a self gratifying action either way. You can't do something for others that doesn't in some way benefit yourself. If you weren't benefiting, you wouldn't do it.
...which makes EVERYTHING masturbatory.
#35
Quote by TunerAddict
If you didn't get something out of praying, you wouldn't do it. By getting something out of it, you're gratifying yourself.

Its can be as simply as feeling you're doing the right thing. That is a motive, and that is gratification.

I don't think that the people that are truly praying selflessly are doing it just to feel good, they're doing it for guidance, others, or whatever else they're praying for. People that say, "I'm gonna pray for this sick guy so I'll feel better about myself," are not what I would call "truly" praying.
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#36
Quote by grampastumpy
...which makes EVERYTHING masturbatory.

Pretty much as long as it doesn't effect someone else.

Things that involve other people actually being affected don't really fit the criteria.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#37
Quote by TunerAddict
Pretty much as long as it doesn't effect someone else.

Things that involve other people actually being affected don't really fit the criteria.

Like I said earlier, if you believe prayer helps, that means it doesn't fit. Actual results don't matter. It's about intention.

(By the way, what you're talking reminds me of a roundly debunked perspective on psychology called behaviorism. It has some merits (conditioning), but outside that is kinda useless.)

[IN PHIL WE TRUST]


Quote by Trowzaa
I only play bots. Bots never abandon me. (´・ω・`)

Last edited by SteveHouse at Aug 8, 2009,
#38
Quote by salsawords
I don't think that the people that are truly praying selflessly are doing it just to feel good, they're doing it for guidance, others, or whatever else they're praying for. People that say, "I'm gonna pray for this sick guy so I'll feel better about myself," are not what I would call "truly" praying.


You don't get what I'm saying

I'm not saying their motives are wrong like that. I'm just say that selflessness does not exist.

They can certainly care and want that person to get better. But that doesn't make it selfless. They'll still feel better. They'll have peace that they didn't have before because of guilt or grief. They may not notice it, but what they're doing is really in their own interest. I'm not saying its a conscious decision to help themselves, but they are.

Someone is sick, you pray for them. You feel better because you think you've helped them. It doesn't matter if that was your goal or not. You felt upset that they were sick, or that you could help, and you did what you thought would help. In this process, you've helped yourself.

And this is taking the most pro-praying stance I can possibly take.

Are you getting what I'm saying?
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#39
Quote by SteveHouse
Like I said earlier, if you believe prayer helps, that means it doesn't fit. Actual results don't matter. It's about intention.

(By the way, what you're talking reminds me of a roundly debunked perspective on psychology called behaviorism. It has some merits (conditioning), but outside that is kinda useless.)


How does believing prayer helps mean it doesn't fit?

That what I'm not getting. Explain that to me please.

Anyway you shape it, whether they believe it help or not, they are gratifying themselves. They are benefiting from their actions whether "pure" or not.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#40
Quote by TunerAddict
Pretty much as long as it doesn't effect someone else.

Things that involve other people actually being affected don't really fit the criteria.
So why specifically mention prayer? Everything I do I do, in some possibly convoluted way, to benefit myself.

EDIT: In the vein of the thread itself, what about something like putting an environmentalist bumper sticker on your car? Roughly the same thing.
Last edited by grampastumpy at Aug 8, 2009,
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