#1
Ok, I learned the Major scale and have it down pretty well and where the notes are, but I need some ways/suggestions on how to utilize it for soloing. I know you can solo over the chords, but anything else to add?
#2
Quote by -Lateralus-
Ok, I learned the Major scale and have it down pretty well and where the notes are, but I need some ways/suggestions on how to utilize it for soloing. I know you can solo over the chords, but anything else to add?


One thing I find that helps is knowing what notes to resolve on. If you know your intervals pretty well (and know what the chord progression is), you could change notes to match the current chord playing.

Example: Let's use D Major. If the chord progression is I-IV-V-IV (D to G to A to G), you might decide to play the intervals that correspond to the progression. So, when the I plays, you could do some legato up the scale until you reach the 4th degree but time it just right so that the IV is playing. This harmonizes your lead with the rhythm and it sounds really nice if done right.

Use this kind of thing sparingly. Resolving on the right degree all the time adds predictability to your music and often makes it repetitive. It does make your solos sound good in a pinch, however, so never discount it when you need it.
#4
im not sure if this is what your asking.. but bends, vibrato, slides.
learn it in more than one posistion if you dont.
i do alot of slides and bends on more than one string at a time.
#5
Quote by yabes24
im not sure if this is what your asking.. but bends, vibrato, slides.
learn it in more than one posistion if you dont.
i do alot of slides and bends on more than one string at a time.


Yea, I got all 5 positions down pretty good, though I have a little trouble sometimes changing keys, but what I am asking for help in is using it to solo over chords etc.
#6
I already told you how to utilize it, dude. Just apply your knowledge of the scale intervals to what's playing in the background. As a result you harmonize your playing with the rhythm.
#7
Quote by -Lateralus-
Yea, I got all 5 positions down pretty good, though I have a little trouble sometimes changing keys, but what I am asking for help in is using it to solo over chords etc.

you shouldn t be changing keys. unless you ment notes? like if you had the chords Gmaj Dmaj and Am ( just as an example that probably doesnt sound all that great) then you would use only the notes in the G scale. G A B C D E and F# if you only use those notes it should sound good

edit: also what he said above, i havent done much of that i usually just freestyle and it works out, but ive read the theory on it
Last edited by yabes24 at Aug 10, 2009,
#8
Quote by yabes24
you shouldn t be changing keys. unless you ment notes? like if you had the chords Gmaj Dmaj and Am ( just as an example that probably doesnt sound all that great) then you would use only the notes in the G scale. G A B C D E and F# if you only use those notes it should sound good

edit: also what he said above, i havent done much of that i usually just freestyle and it works out, but ive read the theory on it


I meant changing keys for the scale but nvm about that. In your example do you mean to use the G major scale for example? Or could you technically just use the notes within the Gmaj, Dmaj, and Am chords to help solo or are they the samething essentially?

Quote by HoffManCometh
I already told you how to utilize it, dude. Just apply your knowledge of the scale intervals to what's playing in the background. As a result you harmonize your playing with the rhythm.


I wanted some more examples. And your example wasn't as clear as I wanted either. In your example, it sounds like you would be playing a chord almost every other second to get it to harmonize or could you help explain this further?
#9
I meant changing keys for the scale but nvm about that. In your example do you mean to use the G major scale for example? Or could you technically just use the notes within the Gmaj, Dmaj, and Am chords to help solo or are they the samething essentially?

ya its the g major scale, and you could just use the exact notes in those chords. i dont think i would use the same octave, you might have trouble making it stand out. but ya essentially the notes in those chords are all in the G major scale. and you could play those notes anywhere on the fretboard and it would sound good. basically if these chords were playing i would use the same notes but from the 5 fret and up. i dunno if this is gonna make sense lol let me know
#10
I've always wondered really how often people are ACTUALLY going for the chord tones or if they're just trying to come up with nice melodies and sometimes it works out like that, or they just have good ears or what, I dunno.

Maybe I'm not experienced enough but I just cannot for the life of me gear my improv towards chord tones, I get so lost.

I think this is heavily related to your question Lateralus so more explanation on this issue would be helpful.


BTW Tool rocks
#11
Quote by -Lateralus-
I meant changing keys for the scale but nvm about that. In your example do you mean to use the G major scale for example? Or could you technically just use the notes within the Gmaj, Dmaj, and Am chords to help solo or are they the samething essentially?


I wanted some more examples. And your example wasn't as clear as I wanted either. In your example, it sounds like you would be playing a chord almost every other second to get it to harmonize or could you help explain this further?


Okay, I'll explain this a bit more.

One guy was talking about chord tones, and assuming he and I are sort of on the same wavelength, these "chord tones" are referring to the root note of every chord. As you will find, chord progressions AND scales work very much the same because they both have to do with keys. The root note of every chord actually corresponds to each interval of the scale you're playing.

So if you follow the chord tones/root notes of every chord with your lead, you'll harmonize with it and create better melodies. So, you're not playing chords along with the rhythm, you're playing the root note of the chord along with the rhythm.

This time I'll throw in a better example:

=========
(4/4) F Major, - [V (C) ////] - [mIII (Am) ////] - [IV (A#) ////] (kind of a weird progression here)

Okay, so, each chord in the progression plays for one bar each and consists of quarter notes.

Simple enough.

So, you get out your guitar of choice and you get ready to play something in F Major. On the I, you can start off on that root note and make sure that you hit it right on beat.

Now, you can mix things up a bit. Let's say you do a diatonic run (another way of saying a run up the seven notes of a major scale) up to the 5 of your scale. If you play at quarter notes, you'll find that you'll match up right with the V. Cool stuff!

Now you have three beats to do whatever you want. So you could do something a little more fancy. Instead of playing right to the 3, play to the 2, then return to the 3 when the mIII arrives.

Now you're allowed a bit more leeway, because the IV doesn't come for another three beats and you're already on the 3 of your scale. You might decide to do a small, slow trill between the 3 and the 2 of your current scale, then you can jump right up to the 4 when the IV is playing.

Now the home stretch: Find something you can play that leads back to the root note or key right before the I returns, and you've officially made a major lead that actually sounds somewhat decent with the chord progression playing.
=========
Just ask me if you need it in any more depth or found it somewhat confusing. It's rather hard to explain.
Last edited by HoffManCometh at Aug 11, 2009,
#12
Quote by HoffManCometh
Okay, I'll explain this a bit more.

One guy was talking about chord tones, and assuming he and I are sort of on the same wavelength, these "chord tones" are referring to the root note of every chord. As you will find, chord progressions AND scales work very much the same because they both have to do with keys. The root note of every chord actually corresponds to each interval of the scale you're playing.

So if you follow the chord tones/root notes of every chord with your lead, you'll harmonize with it and create better melodies. So, you're not playing chords along with the rhythm, you're playing the root note of the chord along with the rhythm.

This time I'll throw in a better example:

=========
(4/4) F Major, - [V (C) ////] - [mIII (Am) ////] - [IV (A#) ////] (kind of a weird progression here)

Okay, so, each chord in the progression plays for one bar each and consists of quarter notes.

Simple enough.


Could you explain qurter notes further? I sort of know what they are, but since i don't read music, I can't really picture them in relation to the guitar fretboard.

So, you get out your guitar of choice and you get ready to play something in F Major. On the I, you can start off on that root note and make sure that you hit it right on beat.

Now, you can mix things up a bit. Let's say you do a diatonic run (another way of saying a run up the seven notes of a major scale) up to the 5 of your scale. If you play at quarter notes, you'll find that you'll match up right with the V. Cool stuff!



Ok, when you talk about a run up the 7 notes of a major scale, do you mean to start at the rootnote/tonic and then head on to the next rootnote or octave and stop on that particular major scale form and move to the next?

Ex, this is the 3rd shape I learned for the C Major Scale.


|--------------------------------------------------7--8(R)-10---------
|-------------------------------------------8-10--------------------
|---------------------------------7--9-10---------------------------
|-----------------------7--9-10(R)-------------------------------------
|-------------7--8-10-----------------------------------------------
|------8(R)-10---------------------------------------------------------

Are you essentially saying to go from the 8 (rootnote) to the 10 (octave) and then stop? Mix it up within those 7 notes by going back up to the 6th string? Or once that run of 7 notes is completed to head to the next scale shape or in my case...

|-----------------------------------------------------------10-12-13------
|-----------------------------------------------10-12-13(R)---------------
|-------------------------------------9-10-12------------------------------
|--------------------------9-10(R)-12-------------------------------------
|-----------------10-12----------------------------------------------------
|-----10-12-13------------------------------------------------------------


Now you have three beats to do whatever you want. So you could do something a little more fancy. Instead of playing right to the 3, play to the 2, then return to the 3 when the mIII arrives.

Now you're allowed a bit more leeway, because the IV doesn't come for another three beats and you're already on the 3 of your scale. You might decide to do a small, slow trill between the 3 and the 2 of your current scale, then you can jump right up to the 4 when the IV is playing.


What do you mean by the 2? It isn't in the chord progression?

Now the home stretch: Find something you can play that leads back to the root note or key right before the I returns, and you've officially made a major lead that actually sounds somewhat decent with the chord progression playing.
=========
Just ask me if you need it in any more depth or found it somewhat confusing. It's rather hard to explain.


Yea, that helps, but it also raised a lot more questions lol. Thanks for the help though.
#13
Okay, lots of questions to answer here..

1. Quarter notes are a measurement of time in relation to the song. A quarter note in 4/4 equals one beat. For simplicity's sake I recommend limiting your leads to all quarter notes just to get a feel for harmonizing.

2. I worded that terribly.. I should have left that diatonic definition out. What I meant is that you do a run up the major scale until you arrive at the 5th of the major scale. If you time this correctly, you should arrive at the 5th at the same time that the V of the progression is playing. Both your note and the chord tones correspond, which is why it'll sound pretty good.

3. Okay, the reason why I mentioned playing down to the 2 in your scale before hitting the 3 is because you want to add some flavor to your lead. There isn't anything in this progression that utilizes the 2nd of F Major, however, the notes are still there in the scale and you can still play them.

Also, just a side note: consider devising Major scales that use 3nps patterns. They allow for more of a stretch and also have more octaves to play in.
#14
Quote by HoffManCometh
Okay, lots of questions to answer here..

1. Quarter notes are a measurement of time in relation to the song. A quarter note in 4/4 equals one beat. For simplicity's sake I recommend limiting your leads to all quarter notes just to get a feel for harmonizing.

2. I worded that terribly.. I should have left that diatonic definition out. What I meant is that you do a run up the major scale until you arrive at the 5th of the major scale. If you time this correctly, you should arrive at the 5th at the same time that the V of the progression is playing. Both your note and the chord tones correspond, which is why it'll sound pretty good.

3. Okay, the reason why I mentioned playing down to the 2 in your scale before hitting the 3 is because you want to add some flavor to your lead. There isn't anything in this progression that utilizes the 2nd of F Major, however, the notes are still there in the scale and you can still play them.


Ok, so with the F Major you are saying throw in the 2nd F Major pattern that I am not using or a 2 as in a G chord since it is between F (tonic) and the C(major 5th?)?

Also, just a side note: consider devising Major scales that use 3nps patterns. They allow for more of a stretch and also have more octaves to play in.


What is 3nps? Did you just mean 3 patterns?
#15
Quote by -Lateralus-
Ok, so with the F Major you are saying throw in the 2nd F Major pattern that I am not using or a 2 as in a G chord since it is between F (tonic) and the C(major 5th?)?

What is 3nps? Did you just mean 3 patterns?


No, I'm saying throw in a 2 by itself. Not a G chord, since you want to utilize the scale and play leads (according to the first post). One little clear distinction I should have made: Normal numbers usually mean scale intervals, while roman numerals mean chord changes and progressions. So the difference between a 2 and II (at least in my book) is that a 2 is referring to the second degree of a scale, while a II is referring to the second chord degree in any given key.

3nps scales are scales that have three notes per string. They are especially useful because you get about 3 octaves per note and carry over into other patterns, so it's easy to transition from shape to shape if you get enough practice with them. And also useful because if you ever want to dabble in modes later, certain patterns can be used for modes.

Look 'em up on google, they're extremely easy to find.
#16
To solo effectively you need to create and resolve tension. This means that you need to understand how notes sound when you play them with other notes. So you need to understand intervals. When you are soloing over a chord progression it helps to know the notes used in the chords. For example the C chord has C, E, and G. These are the chord tones, these are the best notes to use when resolving tension. You create tension with non-chord tones; so if you are strictly playing in Cmaj over a C chord you can use A, B, D, F to create tension. The amount of tension created will depend on the interval used; for example the major second (D) will create more tension than the major sixth (A).

So lets say you have one bar of Cmaj, you start with a chord tone, lets say E, then move to a non-chord tone to create tension, lets say D, then move to another chord tone to resolve the tension at the end of the bar, lets say C.

Now that is just an example, you've got to play around to see what you like. Perhaps record a backing track just using one chord and just solo over that. Start with just the chord tones and see what sounds you can create, then start incorporating non-chord tones so you can begin to see how they function. There are no strict rules, you don't need to start and finish on a chord tone (although these will probably be your stronger licks).

Does that help at all?
#17
Quote by Myshadow46_2
To solo effectively you need to create and resolve tension. This means that you need to understand how notes sound when you play them with other notes. So you need to understand intervals. When you are soloing over a chord progression it helps to know the notes used in the chords. For example the C chord has C, E, and G. These are the chord tones, these are the best notes to use when resolving tension. You create tension with non-chord tones; so if you are strictly playing in Cmaj over a C chord you can use A, B, D, F to create tension. The amount of tension created will depend on the interval used; for example the major second (D) will create more tension than the major sixth (A).

So lets say you have one bar of Cmaj, you start with a chord tone, lets say E, then move to a non-chord tone to create tension, lets say D, then move to another chord tone to resolve the tension at the end of the bar, lets say C.

Now that is just an example, you've got to play around to see what you like. Perhaps record a backing track just using one chord and just solo over that. Start with just the chord tones and see what sounds you can create, then start incorporating non-chord tones so you can begin to see how they function. There are no strict rules, you don't need to start and finish on a chord tone (although these will probably be your stronger licks).

Does that help at all?


Yea, that helped a lot thanks.