#1
Alright Pit, so i had already gone to bed about 15 minutes ago and this popped into my mind. And i just cannot sleep without closure on this subject.

When you take a lie detector test, it measures the rhythm of your heart beating, your pulse. Your pulse spikes when you tell a lie, as you KNOW that you are telling a lie.

But people have the ability to change what they think, willingly or not, correct? As in if a traumatic experience has been had, it can alter the mind's perception, right?

So is it possible to cheat a lie detector test, by simply believing in your lie? I mean, of course it would by no means be easy to change how you think. But beyond all that, if there was some way you COULD make yourself truly believe in your lie..would your pulse still spike? would your subconscious still know that you are lying?

If so...then many of the things we believe to be truth, could really be a lie...whether we think we have first-hand experience or not...

please no "how high were you" posts....
#2
High enough to forget about Google, apparently.

Yes, you can cheat a lie detector. It's why their not used in court. Look it up.
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Last edited by C/ruel at Aug 11, 2009,
#3
Yeah, it's pretty common to be able to cheat a polygraph test.
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#4
And yeah, lie detectors aren't always 100%

smoke some bro. you'll be a happier person

EDIT: Ahh TS changed his sig.
Last edited by denfilade at Aug 11, 2009,
#5
There was one episode of Mythbusters where they tried cheating lie detectors using alot of different means. Didn't turn out so well though they all failed.
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#6
Some people can just control their pulse enough to cheat them.

EDIT To above post: Grant passed.
#8
I think cheaing a polygraph test is more about controlling your body's outputs rather than believing your own lie, which couold actually never happen.
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#11
If you excite yourself for the baseline test, then it's easier to get a lie past.
#12
Interesting perspective. I've also thought, what if your heart starts racing and you start flashing back and stuff, and it shows as increased activity, when you're telling the truth? I would hope they would have some countermeasure for that, but I don't know.

And if you know it's a lie, but try to believe in your lie, I think that you will still always know it's a lie, consciously or not. The reason: You're still lying. I don't think there's a way where you can TRULY overwrite the memory or record in your mind of the information being untrue. You may be able to control your heart rate and whatnot, but your brain activity (I believe they measure that too, though I may be wrong) will still most likely show extra activity, although it may be so subtle they don't notice.. Point is, you can probably beat a lie detector test if you know how.

And no, I don't believe that if we have first hand experience and whatever and then proceed to tell ourselves that it's a lie, then we'll stop believing the truth of our knowledge. We can't convince ourselves that everything we know is a lie without some.. outside encouragement.

And if we know something's a lie, then we'll always know. If we don't though, then everything we know COULD be a lie..

And then the conspiracy theories begin.

I hope some of that made sense.. That's all just what I think though.
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#13
I do think you can believe your own lie, it just takes a lot of time and a very large amount of not wanting to believe the truth, and probably others' influence as well. Not 100% but I think you could be brainwashed over time.
Last edited by W35M4N at Aug 11, 2009,
#15
Yup.

Penn and Teller's show did a show on Lie Detectors recently.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3 (Some minor nudity in this one I think)


If you have time, you should watch that. If I remember right, there was a guy who (I think) was a spy and he failed his Polygraph even though he didn't do anything.
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Last edited by Flippy Floppy at Aug 11, 2009,
#16
this begs to ask the question.


what is reality?

the perceptual world is just electronic signals in the brain, life is nothing more than the works of your mind..


as far as you know you live in your own personal Matrix, and life as you know it does not exist.

and in fact all you see and read in the pit is just a fabrication of what youve wanted to see, what your mind made/let you see and comprehend.


wait.... how stoned are you dude?
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#17
Quote by kblavie
It isn't a lie if you believe it.


That's like saying the holocaust never happened if you deny it...
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"The end is extremely fucking nigh..."
#18
I always think I'd be the worst person for taing a lie detector. Even if Im telling the truth I always laugh when someone asks me "Honestly is that the truth?". On a lie detector I would be thinking "OMG im telling the truth but what if this shows im lying when im not"= pulse goes through the roof
#19
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If you excite yourself for the baseline test, then it's easier to get a lie past.



Woah. This is true. I guess it would be pretty easy...
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#20
If you truly believe what you're saying, regardless of whether or not you agree with reality, your statement will register as truth with a lie detector.

EDIT: I suppose it's possible to deceive oneself into believing an untruth, but it takes a very warped perception of the world. Think of Cartman in the South Park episode with the fish joke. Even though we all knew Jimmy wrote the joke, Cartman convinced himself otherwise because he's incapable of processing information with anything but his feelings.

It's also possible for something like trauma to warp a person's mind, what with repressed memories and such. I read a Lois Duncan book about ten years ago where a guy accidentally killed his younger sister but managed to convince himself that she had been kidnapped by someone instead.
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Last edited by Quintessence153 at Aug 11, 2009,
#21
truth is subjective
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#23
Of course you can cheat in a lie detector... they are not considered fool proof, in fact they are considered pretty inaccurate. And this is just a gut feeling, but I don't think the results gathered from a lie detector can be used against you in court either.
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