#1
Hey guys, I'm new to the forum, hi to all. I just wanna ask for some opinions, related to my guitar buying choice. I'm a big Les Paul fan, and I ran into a Gibson LP Studio model, worn brown (I know that many of you would dislike it, but I adore that vintage/oldie look), for $800. Good/bad deal, and why? Thanx a lot.
#3
Quality control is all over the place with gibson, especially their lower end models. the studios are especialy hit or miss. you have to play one in person to see if you like it or not.
Quote by pedromiles101
you're not gonna want to take a dump in a gross, off-colored, vintage toilet. you want something that is white and pearly; something that shines. something that you can put your cheeks against and say, "f*** yeah"
#5
Thanks for the instant replies, guys. Actually, what I'm looking for is the best LP I can get up to $1000. Your considerations? Much appreciated.
#7
Quote by hidden132
If you want to get a les paul you should get at least a les paul standard. the stuidos are poorly made guitars. or check this guitar out, i have it and i think it is way better then the studio. http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/ESP-LTD-Deluxe-EC1000-Electric-Guitar?sku=516629

this. and if you dont like active EMG's, there's the one with the passive Seymour Duncans in there, its the amber-burst one.
Quote by pedromiles101
you're not gonna want to take a dump in a gross, off-colored, vintage toilet. you want something that is white and pearly; something that shines. something that you can put your cheeks against and say, "f*** yeah"
#8
The mahogany studios are really quite nice, and I don't see any reason to call the other studios poorly made. There have been some QC issues but if you've played the guitar that's irrelevant.

The ESP is well made but the EMGs limit it rather severely in the cleans department, and it doesn't have the depth of tone the mahogany studio does, again that's not a big deal except while playing clean.

I'd go for the mahogany studio, used if you can find one, plus a pickup upgrade.
#10
PRS sound very different than LPs, even the singlecut models. You're going to have to try one out before deciding if it's your flavor or not.
Epiphone, unless you can find a used Elitist (they're discontinued) are going to be totally outclassed by Gibson/PRS/ESP in that price range.
#14
I got the same model in red. just make sure you play it and check on the quality of it. if you can't find anything wrong with it and like the guitar, then go for it
Quote by wannabe jesus
If we did tune using the 5th fret on the G string it'd be a C. At the moment it goes G B which stands for George Bush. So obviously GB doesn't want you to C the truth! To the conspiracy cave!
#15
Yeah, that's the vintage mahogany studio. Very nice necks on those, and they sound quite good if you get a nice one. I'd still change the pickups, but that's the case with almost everything in that price range.
#16
Try it out, if you like it - snatch it up. Try and talk them down 50 or so in price.
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Is my album list pointing a gun or a penis to your head saying buddy this thing is going to unload if you don't listen to the whole damn clip??
#17
Quote by Roc8995
The mahogany studios are really quite nice, and I don't see any reason to call the other studios poorly made. There have been some QC issues but if you've played the guitar that's irrelevant.

The ESP is well made but the EMGs limit it rather severely in the cleans department, and it doesn't have the depth of tone the mahogany studio does, again that's not a big deal except while playing clean.

I'd go for the mahogany studio, used if you can find one, plus a pickup upgrade.
Thank you sir, I'm glad I'm not the only who feels this way.

I've played les pauls for many years, several models, and for a few years the QC on standard production Gibsons is a little shaky and their factory setup always puts the strings a tad high for my tastes, but like you said, QC is irrelevant as long as you play the guitar first.

But until I came to this site, I had never seen the bashing of the les paul studio so heavily, even on the snobbiest, most elitist cork-sniffing forums on the internet where 80% of les paul owners own several les pauls including several historics, the studio is actually quite a well received instrument. And somehow on this forum, mainly with a demographic of players <18, people will not stop insisting that Epiphones with pickup swaps are better. They're still one of the best guitars you can buy in the ~$700-$800 range used, I wouldn't ever pay the $1300 for a new one, it's not that great, but I sure as hell would not pay the $2700 for a standard. It's just not a good enough guitar to be worth $2700. Thus I'm surprised so many people suggest it.

It reminds me of the GG+A forum, where people insist that Marshalls suck and Peaveys are better.
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 11, 2009,
#18
Do you think that 490R/498T pickups with this guitar are versatile? Or the Burstbuckers, for that matter?
Last edited by m4life at Aug 11, 2009,
#19
Quote by m4life
Do you think that 490R/498T pickups with this guitar are versatile?
They're versatile but lack character. I believe the model you're looking at come with burstbucker pros, which, imo, also lack character. But they're very neutral sounding pickups, which do give them a versatility of sorts.

I do prefer the 490R/498T to the BB pros, but in the end, I think you'll find that you will most likely prefer something a little bit more suited to your taste, if they differ from what the stock pickups give you. Just remember, the pickups are the least important aspect of the guitar because they're easiest to change and there is a very wide variety of pickups out there that you can change them to.

I HATED the way the 498T sounded in my les paul, I absolutely despised it, but I have heard it sound good in other guitars before, and I have played les paul studios and les paul standards (this was before they started using BBs) that I absolutely would have never replaced the 490/498 set with if I owned the guitar.
Quote by m4life
Do you think that 490R/498T pickups with this guitar are versatile? Or the Burstbuckers, for that matter?
The Burstbuckers 1+2 are what come in the historics, and they're generally ok as far as stock pickups go. I've played them in historics and standards from a few years back (before the BB pros), and they sound... ok. I was having a discussion about Wolfetone Dr. Vs with a guy a few days ago and the topic of burstbuckers came up, and I liked the way he described them, a modern sounding pickup with some PAF-like characteristics rather than something that really sounds like a PAF (that they're supposed to be reissues of). They might work fine for you if you're not really into the PAF sound that much and just want a set of pickups that sound decent, but when (or if for that matter) you start listening carefully to the PAF tone on recordings of guys like Clapton, Page, Bloomfield and start noticing the more subtle tonal signatures associated with PAFs, then you'll eventually get annoyed with them and swap them out like most les paul owners do.
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 11, 2009,
#20
What do you mean by versatile? They sound great clean and even better overdriven. With the right amp and settings, most guitars sound great clean and overdriven. These pickups are going to be loud and very bassy when played clean. The bridge pickup will sound very crunchy and crisp when overdriven and the neck pickup will sound quite creamy. Every person on this forum thinks their guitar is the one-in-a-million diamond in the rough. They have managed to find the only great one made. I call b.s. I think they are not as lucky and discriminating as they think.
#21
My question is, which pickups will sound best with the LP Studio to provide screaming Gary Moore-like type lead sound, but also some high-gain metal-ish rhythm sound? As well as good, clear clean sound? I play through a Peavey ValveKing 112 and the Digitech RP500 multi-effects pedal. I also play blues and plan to dabble in jazz-rock.
#22
Quote by danohat
What do you mean by versatile? They sound great clean and even better overdriven. With the right amp and settings, most guitars sound great clean and overdriven. These pickups are going to be loud and very bassy when played clean. The bridge pickup will sound very crunchy and crisp when overdriven and the neck pickup will sound quite creamy. Every person on this forum thinks their guitar is the one-in-a-million diamond in the rough. They have managed to find the only great one made. I call b.s. I think they are not as lucky and discriminating as they think.
But what about when you're talking about how great they sound compared to other options?

Say you buy a guitar with burstbuckers and you say, wow, ok these sound pretty good! But a few months later you decide you want to try a set of Duncan antiquities, and you think, man these sound even better, play with those for a few years in that guitar and you get accustomed to their sound, and then when you go back to the burstbuckers after getting used to a pickup like the ants, then it's very easy to say... "meh..." and chuck 'em on Ebay.
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 11, 2009,
#24
You are going to have to decide. Everyone has their own voice. Yours will be different.
#25
Quote by m4life
Anyone? Concrete suggestions about the prelast post?
Hotter PAF style wind will do the Gary Moore thing. At least if you're talking about the tone of Moore's les paul given to him by Peter Green.

http://www.wolfetone.com/productsandpricing.html

Take a look at the Caretaker model. Supposed to wound to the sound and spec of this particular les paul...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18FgnFVm5k0
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 11, 2009,
#26
The Les Paul Studio Model is fitted with 490R and 498T Alnico 2 magnet humbucker pickups.

The Les Paul Standards have Alcino V Burtsbucker Pros.

The Les Paul Vintage Mahogany has...drum roll please.....


Alcino V Burstbucker Pros.

I would hope that a $3000, and then some, guitar would have great pickups, so good in fact that you would never want to change them. Ive heard several people in the past insist on a pickup change in the Vintage Mahogany series, even one I heard suddgested that I swap my pickups for whatever Gibson used in thier standards, becuase he felt that they were tops in the Humbucker Lineup.

Needless to say, I do my homework. Here's a snippet from MF " Now Gibson brings this fabulous wood combo back with the added vintage edge of Gibson's Alnico V BurstBucker Pro humbuckers. Designed especially for the new Gibson Les Paul Standards, these pickups provide pure tone lovers with stunning humbucking tone on their electric guitars."

I think that the Alcino V BB Pros are are about as good as you can get, in the humbucking depertment, depending on what you play, and what your ear has to say about it.

I just wanted to remind the TS and UG that the Vintage Mahogany series has more to offer than a worn brown exterior.
1981 Gibson Les Paul Custom (Black Beauty)
1980 Marshall JMP 2204
#27
Quote by Jonny Ryan Mac
The Les Paul Studio Model is fitted with 490R and 498T Alnico 2 magnet humbucker pickups.

The Les Paul Standards have Alcino V Burtsbucker Pros.

The Les Paul Vintage Mahogany has...drum roll please.....

Alcino V Burstbucker Pros.

I would hope that a $3000, and then some, guitar would have great pickups, so good in fact that you would never want to change them. Ive heard several people in the past insist on a pickup change in the Vintage Mahogany series, even one I heard suddgested that I swap my pickups for whatever Gibson used in thier standards, becuase he felt that they were tops in the Humbucker Lineup.

Needless to say, I do my homework. Here's a snippet from MF " Now Gibson brings this fabulous wood combo back with the added vintage edge of Gibson's Alnico V BurstBucker Pro humbuckers. Designed especially for the new Gibson Les Paul Standards, these pickups provide pure tone lovers with stunning humbucking tone on their electric guitars."

I think that the Alcino V BB Pros are are about as good as you can get, in the humbucking depertment, depending on what you play, and what your ear has to say about it.

I just wanted to remind the TS and UG that the Vintage Mahogany series has more to offer than a worn brown exterior.
Are you seriously making this judgment based on the fact that the BB pros come in a $3000 guitar, and thus they must be good?

The reason people tell others to change the pickups in the VM is because the Burstbucker Pros are not very good. Whoever told you to switch them to whatever was in a standard was just an idiot, because they don't sound good in a standard either. It's just my opinion, but if you think that the VM is better for having them and you honestly think they're the best you can get in a humbucker lineup, I can safely say you've never even been near a good A5 PAF style pickup.
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 11, 2009,
#28
I have a LP Studio. Not the Vintage Mahogany model, but still a Studio. Try before you buy, as the others have said. Mine is fantastic and easily stands up to most standards in terms of playability, but I will most likely swap out the pickups soon enough.

Quote by al112987
Thank you sir, I'm glad I'm not the only who feels this way.

I've played les pauls for many years, several models, and for a few years the QC on standard production Gibsons is a little shaky and their factory setup always puts the strings a tad high for my tastes, but like you said, QC is irrelevant as long as you play the guitar first.

But until I came to this site, I had never seen the bashing of the les paul studio so heavily, even on the snobbiest, most elitist cork-sniffing forums on the internet where 80% of les paul owners own several les pauls including several historics, the studio is actually quite a well received instrument. And somehow on this forum, mainly with a demographic of players <18, people will not stop insisting that Epiphones with pickup swaps are better. They're still one of the best guitars you can buy in the ~$700-$800 range used, I wouldn't ever pay the $1300 for a new one, it's not that great, but I sure as hell would not pay the $2700 for a standard. It's just not a good enough guitar to be worth $2700. Thus I'm surprised so many people suggest it.

It reminds me of the GG+A forum, where people insist that Marshalls suck and Peaveys are better.

Well said. The Bandwagons are so loud here that you can practically hear them thundering towards you every time one of these threads starts with some unfortunate fellow asking for honest advice. It's a shame.
Quote by CarpUK
Beat the recession by soldering your strings back together! What's more, the extra metal vibrating back and forth will add to your tone... and what could be more metal than more metal!?!

Quote by biga29
Plz uz reel wurdz bcoz wen u tipe lik this its hard 2 red.
Last edited by The_Future_Soon at Aug 11, 2009,
#29
Quote by The_Future_Soon


Well said. The Bandwagons are so loud here that you can practically hear them thundering towards you every time one of these threads starts with some unfortunate fellow asking for honest advice. It's a shame.
It seriously makes me wonder how many people actually have their own opinions on here. I post at a few other forums outside of this one, and this forum is by far, the worst when it comes to bashing the Gibson les paul studio and Marshall amps.... well, nvm, I take that back, the Metro amp forum is pretty bad about bashing Marshall amps, but that's a community of amp builders and the plexi obsessed so what else would one expect... but the apparent snobbery about the LP studio here outclasses even TGP and LPF, with several members who actually own several les pauls of all levels, along with several other guitars of several other makes. Ironically I don't post there as much simply because of all the snobbery there, and yet even those Dumble and Klon obsessed cork sniffers even have good things to say about the guitar. I don't want to sound like a bad sport or that I'm looking down on anyone, but is it really more likely that the 16 year old who has only played a few les pauls at GC more of an expert on the subject?

If a VM was being sold for $500, I assure you that there would be at least one person who would suggest an LTD Eclipse, or Schecter, citing that Gibson's lower end guitars suck now, completely overshadowing the fact that it's being sold for $500.
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 11, 2009,
#30
Quote by al112987
Are you seriously making this judgment based on the fact that the BB pros come in a $3000 guitar, and thus they must be good?

The reason people tell others to change the pickups in the VM is because the Burstbucker Pros are not very good. Whoever told you to switch them to whatever was in a standard was just an idiot, because they don't sound good in a standard either. It's just my opinion, but if you think that the VM is better for having them and you honestly think they're the best you can get in a humbucker lineup, I can safely say you've never even been near a good A5 PAF style pickup.


I really think you misunderstood me, and no, I havent heard a A5 PAF, I will do so. I understand you opinion, and I have my own as well. In my Opinion, based on the many guitars that I have played, the A5 BB Pros are AMONG the best HBs that I have played. I do feel that the Standards are great, and that the Pickups they have are great, thats my opinion.

It seriously makes me wonder how many people actually have their own opinions on here. I post at a few other forums outside of this one, and this forum is by far, the worst when it comes to bashing the Gibson les paul studio and Marshall amps


I totally agree with you. Thats what im trying to say. In my opinion the BB Pro's are great pick ups. Am I NOT allowed to say that? I think they're as good as anything else Ive played, am I wrong? Can I not have an opinion? Must I play every pickup known to man to even forulate one. I believe that Gibson outfits the LP Stds with these pups due to the fact that they ARE high quality, versitle, and have a vintage sound.

al112987 - Im on your side, we just dont have the same opinion. I have mine, you have yours, and neither one of us is bandwagoning.
1981 Gibson Les Paul Custom (Black Beauty)
1980 Marshall JMP 2204
#31
Quote by Jonny Ryan Mac
I really think you misunderstood me, and no, I havent heard a A5 PAF, I will do so. I understand you opinion, and I have my own as well. In my Opinion, based on the many guitars that I have played, the A5 BB Pros are AMONG the best HBs that I have played. I do feel that the Standards are great, and that the Pickups they have are great, thats my opinion.



I totally agree with you. Thats what im trying to say. In my opinion the BB Pro's are great pick ups. Am I NOT allowed to say that? I think they're as good as anything else Ive played, am I wrong? Can I not have an opinion? Must I play every pickup known to man to even forulate one. I believe that Gibson outfits the LP Stds with these pups due to the fact that they ARE high quality, versitle, and have a vintage sound.

al112987 - Im on your side, we just dont have the same opinion. I have mine, you have yours, and neither one of us is bandwagoning.
Of course you are, I'll just have to disagree with you. Different strokes for different folks is all. If they're the best you've played thus far, I obviously can't say that they're not.

The second post wasn't aimed at you in any way and has nothing to do with your feeling about BB pros. I apologize if it seemed that way, it's a long sentiment I've had about this EG forum which I find annoying. I'm not accusing you of bandwagoning in anyway, sorry if it looked like that (even if I did insult your taste in pickups ) You should see the tirades I go on in the GG+A forum about Marshalls...
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 11, 2009,
#32
Quote by al112987
Of course you are, I'll just have to disagree with you. Different strokes for different folks is all. If they're the best you've played thus far, I obviously can't say that they're not.

The second post wasn't aimed at you in any way and has nothing to do with your feeling about BB pros. I apologize if it seemed that way, it's a long sentiment I've had about this EG forum which I find annoying. I'm not accusing you of bandwagoning in anyway, sorry if it looked like that (even if I did insult your taste in pickups ) You should see the tirades I go on in the GG+A forum about Marshalls...


I agree totally. We have different tastes. Thats good for me, I'd hate to be a damn robot)

Im with you in the tyrades. Were cool. Ive seen your rants, perhaps I need to do the same.

BTW - When did people in UG decide that Marshall JCM's didnt have a capible clean tone, am I losing my mind?!? You with me on that???
1981 Gibson Les Paul Custom (Black Beauty)
1980 Marshall JMP 2204
#33
Quote by Jonny Ryan Mac
I agree totally. We have different tastes. Thats good for me, I'd hate to be a damn robot)

Im with you in the tyrades. Were cool. Ive seen your rants, perhaps I need to do the same.

BTW - When did people in UG decide that Marshall JCM's didnt have a capible clean tone, am I losing my mind?!? You with me on that???
The Joe Satriani playing the JVM thread was what really set me off.

"I wonder why Satch switched to Marshall, he should be able to get all the tones he could ever want out of the JSX"

me: "Well, maybe he liked the way the Marshall sounded more"

"Ah... I get it, Marshall's gotta be paying him off! Or Chickenfoot just must call for a different kind of tone, I wonder why Satch wouldn't just get Peavey to make him another amp..."

me: "...maybe he liked the way the Marshall sounded more."

"I'm sure Peavey would make him a new amp if he asked them to, why play Marshalls?"

me: "Oh dear... the day has finally come where people actually think Peaveys are better than Marshalls... amazing"
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 12, 2009,
#34
Sounds about right. The editorial in this weeks Guitar Player Mag was interestting, when they gave the Marshall MG a "Player's Pick" Award. I have never seen a better case of "Group Think" than I have with Spiders, Frontmen, and MGs. There are people out there who just flat out hate them becuase everyone else does. Does the guitar playing universe expect every f***ing amp to be stage worthy, and flame those that own, use, and practice on one.

- Am I to believe that the staff and players at GP Mag are involved in a freaking conspiracy? I doubt it......There just as elitist as any of us, probably worse!

I dont understand why we all need Blackstar HT-5's in our practice space, I dont understand why Vypers are the only budget Modeling amp that comes to mind. Ive meet Guitar Elitists before, but never Amp elitists until I started posting in UG.

I love opinions, they make it all go round.
1981 Gibson Les Paul Custom (Black Beauty)
1980 Marshall JMP 2204
Last edited by Jonny Ryan Mac at Aug 12, 2009,