#1
I installed a Double Black T-Top Pickup into the bridge position of my guitar. What output would it be considered as? I don't know how I would be able to find out on my own what output the pickup would be, so I wondered if anyone happened to randomly know that.

The reason I want to know is that I am planning on replacing the neck pickup (just a Gibson Burstbucker) with a DiMarzio Evolution Neck DP158 Pickup and I want to know if it would be okay.

Since pickup-output wise, I'm pretty stupid.
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
Ibanez Jemini
Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6
#3
The T top pickups were pretty low output as far as humbuckers are concerned.
Not taking any online orders.
#4
wats the difference between a PAf humbucker and a regular one?? and wat voltage would be considered high output
GEAR
ESP LTD Alexi-200
Blackstar HT-5 Mini Halfstack
Squier Affinity Strat
Dunlop Crybaby Wah
Line 6 Uber Metal
#5
Their output is supposed to be a little bit higher than regular PAF (Patent Applied For. The real deal original Gibson Humbuckers) Pickups.
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
Ibanez Jemini
Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6
#6
Quote by Junnage
Their output is supposed to be a little bit higher than regular PAF (Patent Applied For. The real deal original Gibson Humbuckers) Pickups.
It depends, PAFs had a HUGE range of outputs, anywhere from 7k to 10k (I don't think either is particularly common and most stay in that 7.5k-8.5k range) and used A2, A3, A4 and A5 magnets, so they could all differ pretty heavily in terms of tone.

A T-Top a little bit lower than your typical PAF, most t-tops are looking at 7-7.5k DCR, with the short A5 magnet. Thinner, brighter and cleaner sounding than your typical PAF.

Funny thing about the t-top, they were considered quite unremarkable pickups until it came out that Jimmy Page used one in the bridge of his most famous guitar. And then people started playing real attention to them.
Quote by soloXshredder
wats the difference between a PAf humbucker and a regular one?
A PAF is simply a designation for the very first humbuckers produced in 1957-1960, back before Gibson had the patent on the design and thus had a sticker on the back that said "patent applied for." You can't ask what the difference is between a PAF and a "normal" humbucker, what is a "normal" humbucker? All humbuckers originated from the same PAF design. But there are a lot of modern PAF adaptations that take into a account the same few factors...

DC Resistance in "some" range (most makers have several types of PAF-style models to account for the discrepancies between PAFs)
Usually A2, A4 or A5 magnets
42 awg plain enamel wire
Some type of scatter pattern to approximate the old Gibson winders

I'm sure there's more that someone like CorduroyEW could add.

and wat voltage would be considered high output
Most people measure output in DC Resistance, it's not the best gauge for output, but it's generally a good ballpark indicator. Higher DCR means more turns of wire means more output.

I would say... anything above 12k is high output. What most people consider high output is really subjective. Anything above 8.5k is generally considered high output for a PAF, but a PAF wound to 8.5k w/ an A2 is probably not going to be higher in output than a PAF wound to 8.2k w/ an A5.
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 12, 2009,
#7
So that pretty much gave me all the technical, but I did not all together comprehend what you said. So my pickup would be a low output pickup. So would my pickup be a low output pickup or a medium output pickup?
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
Ibanez Jemini
Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6
#8
Yes it's a low output pickup, you can think of it as a lower output, brighter sounding PAF style pickup. There are some differences, t-tops use a different wire insulation, but otherwise, the tone of a late PAF/early patent number and that of a t-top is not really all that different.
#9
Okay, and the last question. Would it have any serious problems if I installed a high output neck pickup?
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
Ibanez Jemini
Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6
#11
Depends how high output. If you're talking about something higher in output than the t-top, but maybe still in the PAF range, it may sound ok. But if you're talking about something... a super distortion or something, then no, don't. It will completely over power the t-top.

The best example is still Jimmy Page who was famous for using a t-top with a relatively high output neck PAF which was measured to be 8.2k. This is not a high output pickup by any stretch of the imagination, but for a PAF, it was a little higher than most people today like for their PAF style neck pickups (again, it's all relative, because they didn't differentiate between neck and bridge pickups back then)

Volume-wise there wasn't a huge difference between the two, but it had a huge effect on his middle position tone. So if you ever listen to Led Zeppelin's live recordings of Page after '72, you'll hear that whacked out, quacking, almost out of phase like middle position tone.
#12
Well, as I mentioned in the OP, I was planning on installing either a DiMarzio DP158 Neck Pickup, or a DiMarzio DP165 Breed Neck Pickup.

The Breed is 10.39 K and the Evolution is 13.04 K and on the DiMarzio website, are both considered to be Medium Output.
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
Ibanez Jemini
Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6
#13
They're about medium output in the grand scheme of things, compared to most modern high gain pickups around >13k and most "vintage" output pickups <10k. I actually use a set that is 11k neck and 13k bridge (WCR Fillmores). But I think they would still overpower that t-top by a considerable amount. Remember that there is a much stronger signal at the neck so you don't want something with a huge discrepancy between neck and bridge. Remember T-tops are not only low output, they're low output even amongst vintage pickups as far as humbuckers go.

What kind of tone are you looking for?
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 12, 2009,
#14
Well, it's very hard to describe. But essentially, if you combined a Marty Friedman or Paul Gilbert sort of tone and a Steve Vai or Joe Satriani sort of tone, you would get the tone I'm aiming for. I like the sheer smooth expressive warm thick, almost creamy tone that Vai and Satch (as well as many other shredders have). I also like the very hard rock/heavy metal tone that really sort of screams, and although it's not a trebly mosquito-sounding mess, it has the ability to have some edge to the tone and is the epitome of the bridge pickup.

I like the crisp sort of bite that the T-Top gives me, and it's worked well for me so far, however, I do not like the Burstbucker in the neck position of my Les Paul. It's not a bad pickup, just not great for the tone I've been trying to achieve for over a year.
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
Ibanez Jemini
Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6
#15
bump
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
Ibanez Jemini
Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6
#16
bump again
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
Ibanez Jemini
Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6