Page 3 of 4
#81
Quote by Ninja Penguin77
Build quality.

I can't say much because I got my American strat NEW for $550, but honestly, the upgraded harware and craftsmanship are amazing. It may not be worth $2000 but you can really fell the differance. I could've gotten a mexican strat and upgraded the hell out of it and had one hell of a guitar but it just doesnt compare to the quality of the wood, neck carve, fret dressing and materals, etc.

Thats just my 0.02


that's true. I've a $120 Squier Bullet Strat and when it works, it sounds like a regular Fender strat. the problem is the quality. The 1st bullet strat I got, I had to take it back and get it exchanged because whoever the idiot or the machine that put the truss rod in placed it off center towards the lower strings. The one I had exchanged for has heavy fret buzz, but I haven't play around with it much, nor set it up. Most likely, it needs a saddle adjustment.

But yeah, I agree with ninja penguin. When you buy an expensive guitar, you're not getting something made by people in a foreign factory that are underpaid, overworked, and are only there because it beats farming the family plot. You get something that's made by people that actually love to work with guitars, have experienced hands, and take pride in what they're making.
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#83
Quote by simpleben09
Hey, what has four arms, four legs, and works at McDonalds? The remaining memebers of Nirvana XD. But really, God bless Kurt Cobain, and after making that joke, God, have mercy on my soul lol


The Drummer is actually the FRONTMAN of Foo Fighters XD

FYI
#84
Quote by MrFlibble
It's nothing to be ashamed of and everyone has to start somewhere, but seriously guys, come on. Some of you are being really obvious. If you can't see why someone would pay 15k+ for a one-off PRS like that then either you're too young and are having trouble even imagining what fifteen grand looks like, or you're going to be a student or similar and you're too naive about the world of money and what other people will or won't do with it. Fifteen thousand for a guitar like that is nothing compared to what some people will spend money on and even just limited to the world of electric guitars, there have been much more expensive guitars than that and probably very few of those will play, sound or last like that one does.

Plus... said £15k guitar shouldn't really be viewed as a musical instrument, but as a collectors item and investment. If you consider what it could subsequently be sold for, the amount of money "lost" on buying the guitar may only be a few grand in the short term, and there will more than likely be a positive return in the future.
Oh, now I've gone and spilled my tea. This really won't do at all.
#85
Quote by Megdidar
I appreciate that fact that that PRS is an absolute work of art and one of a kind. However there comes a point where things start to get absurd. I can see no justifiable reason for a guitar to cost $3000 more than my motorcycle. 15,000.00 and I can't even ride it.
Call it different priorities, I can't imagine that a 15000 guitar sounds 13000$ better than a nice Gibson or even an ESP standard or custom shop.

In ten years time, your bike will dog food cans, whereas that guitar will almost certainly be worth more than $15,000 in absolute terms.
Oh, now I've gone and spilled my tea. This really won't do at all.
#86
Quote by heretic-clown
well ..thats retarded...Dave Grohl went off the make the Foo Fighters

Would rather he worked at Macdonald's.
Quote by Metlhead443
Nobody? Nobody noticed this?

A person would live their life very well informed if they believed the opposite of anything Ed Roman says.

And if LPs are so fragile why do so many vintage ones well used by professional musicians show up for sale in usable condition.
The only people who break them are people who don't look after their instrument at all, and if you think $1000 is steep for an instrument then you would probably look after it better than a 13 year old with no concept of worth.

If you don't think a guitar is worth a few thousand dollars then don't cry, your $150 Starter kit guitar is just as good anyway right? So why complain?
edit:
Quote by CarpUK
In ten years time, your bike will dog food cans,

wat
^Note: Probably sarcastic
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Quote by crisisinheaven
Deep*Kick. You have destroyed every concept of life I've ever had.
#87
Quote by Deep*Kick
wat

Just saying that such guitars tend to appreciate in value over medium to long term, whereas motor vehicles tend to end up on the scrap heap after a while.

If you compare the purchases, you end up with...

- A $15k bike
You get a bike. It does all the things a bike does. In ten years time it'll be worth a lot less than it is now, and will probably cost a load to run. In other words, you lose a lot of money but get (assuming you like motorbikes, which I personally do) a lot of fun out of it. As an investment, it sucks massively.

- A $15k guitar
You get a guitar, and one that is (unless you're genuinely rolling in it) too valuable to really use. In ten years time, you'll still have it, and it'll probably sell for the same or more than you paid for it. In thirty years time it may end up having appreciated massively in real* terms. Okay, as an investment it's probably not going to match up to, say, chucking the lot on the stock market, but compared to the bike it's a moment of financial genius, and if you're a guitar collector then you're going to find it tough comparing your fellow collectors guitars with your Boeing shares.


(i.e. after inflation, meaning you "win")
Oh, now I've gone and spilled my tea. This really won't do at all.
#88
you pay for a lot of things....quality of build, playability, labor fees, shipping costs, not to mention an assload of tax when you buy it, etc. All in all, while forking out the cash sucks, if you love the end result it is always worth it.
#89
i think you should be able to spend more than 1000 after all i think second hand is the way to buy guitars so much cheaper and a little dings and things dont affect the sound . But for all you people sayign you wont spend over 1000 on a guitar you can really tell the difference and they are worth it (well most the time)
#90
Quote by iamawsomeguitar
i think you should be able to spend more than 1000 after all i think second hand is the way to buy guitars so much cheaper and a little dings and things dont affect the sound . But for all you people sayign you wont spend over 1000 on a guitar you can really tell the difference and they are worth it (well most the time)

they are worth it if you are worth it, i think. any beginner isn't going to be able to make a gibson les paul historic R9 sound any better than an epiphone les paul special II. But an awesome guitarist is gonna make the epi sound decent but only as good as the guitar can possibly sound which is somewhat limited, but the gibson will sound a whole world better.

I can't justify having a £1000 guitar because instruments around the £500-£600 range sound just as good when i play them, and i guess that must be because i just don't have the skill to do the more expensive guitars any justice. They do feel much nicer to play though!
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#91
Quote by simpleben09
Hey, what has four arms, four legs, and works at McDonalds? The remaining memebers of Nirvana XD. But really, God bless Kurt Cobain, and after making that joke, God, have mercy on my soul lol



Aww man what's that dude in the Foo Fighter's called? Aww man he also did some drum tracks for QOTSA oh and I hear he's forming this new supergroup OH YEAH
It's that drummer dude from Nirvana umm Dave Grohl. You fool
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#92
Quote by pak1351
You can think whatever you want, but don't spout off bullshit. Ask Warren Haynes what guitar company he likes, or Joe Bonamassa, or Jeff Beck, or Eric Clapton, etc. Personally, I could go my whole life without playing another Ibanez or Dean and die a happy man.

Everyone has different tastes, but Ibanez and Dean and ESP are not superior guitars in any way compared to Fender or Gibson, they're just different. They all 'charge a few hundred dollars for the logo on their headstock'. Nobody sells their guitars at cost, and if you want to call the profit per guitar charging for the name, go ahead and do it, but be aware that every company does it, and not just guitar companies.

Don't pretend to understand their motives. These companies (should) know what to charge in order control a certain market share (which is a huge factor in pricing as well) and make their company profitable. They certainly know more about what they're doing than you do.


ESP custom shop alone absolutely destroys Fender and Gibson CS.

Also, Gibson for one place a significantly larger value on their brand name than Ibanez, for example. And you would be suprised at the greed and stupidity of some people on this earth.
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Last edited by James13v at Aug 13, 2009,
#93
Quote by James13v
ESP custom shop alone absolutely destroys Fender and Gibson CS.

Also, Gibson for one place a significantly larger value on their brand name than Ibanez, for example. And you would be suprised at the greed and stupidity of some people on this earth.


This thread (and forum in general) is a very good example of that.
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#94
Quote by James13v
Also, Gibson for one place a significantly larger value on their brand name than Ibanez, for example. And you would be suprised at the greed and stupidity of some people on this earth.

Data or it didn't happen.
Oh, now I've gone and spilled my tea. This really won't do at all.
#96
Quote by Metlhead443
You just justified it. Also, besides being a Private Stock (pretty much PRS's CS), it's a 513, which is one of the most versatile guitars and a very sought after PRS. And they clearly aren't looking at the average guitarist when pricing that. It's mainly a collector's piece. It's kind like buying a Lamborghini; you don't buy one because you can afford one, you buy one because you can afford five.


This.
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#97
You call it greed, to me it just seems like business. If I built guitars, I'd try and sell them for as much as I could, and with the history of Gibson, they can, and they're clearly selling, so why not, sounds like good business to me.
#98
Just to add a general comment in relation to this whole thread: There is a point where guitars just can not get any better, no matter what you do to them, price-wise this point varies from company to company. Beyond this point, one is paying for aesthetics and sentimental value (brand name, handmand, rare wood cut etc...). Those $15,000 PRS Private Stocks are a perfect example of a guitar that has gone well past the point of practical quality (as I shall call it).

Many people question why others buy guitars like PRS Private Stocks and similar guitars that obviously could have been made/sold cheaper whilst sounding exactly the same, feeling exactly the same and still looking extremely awesome. You don't have to look very far to see why though, and the answer can be found in gold.

Yes gold, as in the element. This relatively useless metal (unless you want a good conductor...) has been overwhelmingly valuable to man all over the world for literally ages. The main reason for this is because it is pleasing to the eye and not much else. It is a primitive obsession that ridiculous amounts of people have died over; that is how much something that is shiny and pretty means to some people. Looking at how much people will value something like gold, it's not hard to understand why people will spend so much money on a guitar.

Do I think spending ridiculously large sums of money on aesthetics and sentimental value is stupid? Yes, I concider myself a realist though.

Would I spend ridiculous amounts of money on a guitar if I had the money to spare and it wouldn't affect my financial situation significantly (I'm a rich mofo in this hypothetical...)? Yes, because I'm human.

Final point: humans are stupid, we do things that are illogical and dumb. But really, we don't care, because when faced with our own mortality our mistakes aren't important as long as we feel we are alive.
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Last edited by James13v at Aug 13, 2009,
#99
Quote by James13v
Just to add a general comment in relation to this whole thread: There is a point where guitars just can not get any better, no matter what you do to them, price-wise this point varies from company to company. Beyond this point, one is paying for aesthetics and sentimental value (brand name, handmand, rare wood cut etc...). Those $15,000 PRS Private Stocks are a perfect example of a guitar that has gone well past the point of practical quality (as I shall call it).

Many people question why others buy guitars like PRS Private Stocks and similar guitars that obviously could have been made/sold cheaper whilst sounding exactly the same, feeling exactly the same and still looking extremely awesome. You don't have to look very far to see why though, and the answer can be found in gold.

Yes gold, as in the element. This relatively useless metal (unless you want a good conductor...) has been overwhelmingly valuable to man all over the world for literally ages. The main reason for this is because it is pleasing to the eye and not much else. It is a primitive obsession that ridiculous amounts of people have died over, that is how much something that is shiny and pretty means to some people. Looking at how much people will value something like gold, it's not hard to understand why people will spend so much money on a guitar.

Do I think spending ridiculously large sums of money on aesthetics and sentimental value is stupid? Yes, I concider myself a realist though.

Would I spend ridiculous amounts of money on a guitar if I had the money to spare and it wouldn't affect my financial situation (I'm a rich mofo in this hypothetical...)? Yes, because I'm human.

Final point: humans are stupid, we do things that are illogical and dumb. But really, we don't care, because when faced with our own mortality our mistakes aren't important as long as we feel we are alive.


'Today young men on acid realised...'

+1

Don't forget, aesthetic beauty is subjective though.
#100
Quote by lukeylynch
'Today young men on acid realised...'

+1

Don't forget, aesthetic beauty is subjective though.


True, true. There're some things that are universally attractive to people though, gold & fire for example. Ofcourse, I do keep in mind the subjectivity of beauty.

O yeh and Bill Hicks/Tool FTW lol, thanks.
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#101
well I have an Agile Intrepid 8 string, and compared to the build and quality of my old Ibanez 1570, it's pretty much the same (ibanez cost twice as much). granted, my Agile doesn't have any fancy finishes, but it sounds just as good.
#102
the main reason for that is that we're so...... that we die for a 3k guitar, but a 1k sounds almost the same, just prestige and classy stuff...Im happier with my dime3 of washburn from Funky musik than a USA dean
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#103
OK, the 15K PRS...

Come on people, its a ONE OF A KIND. That should say it all..
Do you understand what that means? Really???
Whoever buys it will own the ONLY ONE EVER MADE.
That is worth some serious cash, especially if it's a quality instrument (which I garuntee you it is).
Being a one of a kind, it's not really a guitar anymore, it's a collector's item.
I garuntee you whoever buys it will NEVER play it.
It's worth whatever amount ANY ONE PERSON is willing to pay for it.

Is it worth it to your average guitar player, NO. Because we are not rich art collectors.
It is made for collectors who actually have that kind of money to spend at the drop of a dime.

The ACTUAL value of the guitar if it was mass produced, is probably in the 3k range.
The value is seriously jacked up (justifiably) because it is one of a kind.

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Last edited by jonmo1 at Aug 13, 2009,
#104
Quote by jonmo1
OK, the 15K PRS...

Come on people, its a ONE OF A KIND. That should say it all..
Do you understand what that means? Really???
Whoever buys it will own the ONLY ONE EVER MADE.
That is worth some serious cash, especially if it's a quality instrument (which I garuntee you it is).
Being a one of a kind, it's not really a guitar anymore, it's a collector's item.
I garuntee you whoever buys it will NEVER play it.
It's worth whatever amount ANY ONE PERSON is willing to pay for it.

Is it worth it to your average guitar player, NO. Because we are not rich art collectors.
It is made for collectors who actually have that kind of money to spend at the drop of a dime.

The ACTUAL value of the guitar if it was mass produced, is probably in the 3k range.
The value is seriously jacked up (justifiably) because it is one of a kind.


The crap I did today was "ONE OF A KIND" as well, your point?
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Last edited by James13v at Aug 13, 2009,
#105
Quote by James13v
The crap I did today was "ONE OF A KIND" as well, your point?


You're not Paul Reed Smith, are you?
Have millions of other people already paid resonable prices for your previous piles of crap?
Have you already made a name for yourself as a highly respected pile of crap manufacturer?

I guess I should really say...
If there's someone out there willing to pay 15K for your pile of crap, then yes it's worth it...to that person.


And all the people that think a guitar isn't worth more than xxx Dollars, are the same people that say sports athletes don't deserve million dollar salaries.

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Last edited by jonmo1 at Aug 13, 2009,
#106
Quote by jonmo1
You're not Paul Reed Smith, are you?
Have millions of other people already paid resonable prices for your previous piles of crap?
Have you already made a name for yourself as a highly respected pile of crap manufacturer?

I guess I should really say...
If there's someone out there willing to pay 15K for your pile of crap, then yes it's worth it...to that person.


And all the people that think a guitar isn't worth more than xxx Dollars, are the same people that say sports athletes don't deserve million dollar salaries.


First off, my point about uniqueness for the sake of uniqueness being a stupid thing to value highly, still stands.

All of your above statements imply absolutely nothing relevant to our conversation. Do you even have a point?
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Last edited by James13v at Aug 13, 2009,
#107
Quote by James13v
First off, my point about uniqueness for the sake of uniqueness being a stupid thing to value highly, still stands.

All of your above statements imply absolutely nothing relevant to our conversation. Do you even have a point?


My point is the most basic point in human society.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

If there is ONE person in the entire world that thinks that guitar is worth 15K and buys it, then the guitar was indeed worth 15K.

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#108
As I'm truly too lazy to read through all of this....from a quick glance this looks like it's become a flame-war.
#109
Quote by jonmo1
My point is the most basic point in human society.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

If there is ONE person in the entire world that thinks that guitar is worth 15K and buys it, then the guitar was indeed worth 15K.


I wouldn't say that is the "most basic point in human society". You did a pretty crappy job of getting that point across in your last post but this one is sufficient and I see where you are coming from.

I would like to pose you with a question however: If I kill an innocent fellow human being and believe, with all my heart, that it is in my personal interest to do so and I stand to gain from it (for what ever reason), does that indeed make it right? Does that make it "worth" what ever inevitable consequences I will face afterwards just because I personally think it is the right thing to do?


Quote by siverstorm
As I'm truly too lazy to read through all of this....from a quick glance this looks like it's become a flame-war.


Lol, "flame war" & "philosophical debate" are pretty much exactly the same thing.
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Last edited by James13v at Aug 13, 2009,
#110
Mostly your paying for the name but labor costs and material costs are high here in the states. So most guitar you buy MIA your just paying the high cost of labor. The average workers in Asia excluding Japan get about $1.00 and hour or less compared to laborers here getting 25 times more. They basically used the same tooling and assembly procedures don't fall for the hand made bull people like to say about MIA guitars all guitars are hand assembled after the basic machining is done some might not come thru set up right but I have found that on Gibsons and that is an easy fix.

Now there are some smaller custom guitar builders out there that actually hand build a guitar from cutting the body on a band saw, routing it with templates and a hand router sand and finish it all by hand and those still don't cost as much as some big brand name guitars!


I agree there is a point where a guitar just can't get any better no matter what they use, how they are built or how much you pay.

I get a huge laugh out of the SRV Strat at my local Guitar Center that is priced at 17 grand. All your paying for is the name and the relic look. I have played it it's no better than any other Strat I have tried. I guess it's no wonder why it just sit there year after year. I can see paying a premium for a vintage rare guitar but not those prices for a brand new one that is made to look beat they are just a rip off.


John
#111
Quote by James13v
I wouldn't say that is the "most basic point in human society". You did a pretty crappy job of getting that point across in your last post but this one is sufficient and I see where you are coming from.

I would like to pose you with a question however: If I kill an innocent fellow human being and believe, with all my heart, that it is in my personal interest to do so and I stand to gain from it (for what ever reason), does that indeed make it right? Does that make it "worth" what ever inevitable consequences I will face afterwards just because I personally think it is the right thing to do?


Lol, "flame war" & "philosphical debate" are pretty much exactly the same thing.

Woa!!!!
Talk about your points that are not related to the conversation....

Yes, of coarse that is wrong. Dude, what's wrong with you??
No one is hurt by selling/buying a guitar for 15K
There are no laws against selling an item for a really high price.

And I agree, none of this is flaming...just a debate.

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#112
Quote by jonmo1
Woa!!!!
Talk about your points that are not related to the conversation....

Yes, of coarse that is wrong. Dude, what's wrong with you??
No one is hurt by selling/buying a guitar for 15K
There are no laws against selling an item for a really high price.

And I agree, none of this is flaming...just a debate.


Relax, it's exactly the same only more extreme on every level in order to emphasize my point. Get past the stigma of death and murder and the killing for gain is like buying a guitar and the price you pay is whatever consequences you face. It's all relevant. I don't mind if you choose to just ignore whatever point I propose to you (whether it be because you cbf thinking hard about it, your not at a stage of thought yet where you can decipher a point or whatever reason) I'm just attempting to give you another view on an important aspect of life and hopefully educate somebody, therefore doing the world a favour.
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#113
Quote by ieatcrayons1

i just know ive played starter pack ibanez guitars that play and sound better than $800 dollar fenders.


Train your ear, you´re deaf.


Higher Quality Stuff=Expensive
Hand Work in the USA,Japan=Even higher labour costs.
Custom Shop (not CUSTOM MODELS BIG DIFFERENCE)=astronomic
And Brandname on headstock=priceless

And for everything else, Mastercard.

But you normally get what you paid for.
"Black gives way to more black."




I have UG Black Style and I can barely read my signature.

Also, I like black.


~DawnwalkerALL HAIL COMRADE DAWNWALKER
#114
Quote by James13v
First off, my point about uniqueness for the sake of uniqueness being a stupid thing to value highly, still stands.

All of your above statements imply absolutely nothing relevant to our conversation. Do you even have a point?

A guitar like that is as much a piece of art as it is a guitar. That guitar will probably rarely ever get played.
#115
Quote by James13v
Relax, it's exactly the same only more extreme on every level in order to emphasize my point. Get past the stigma of death and murder and the killing for gain is like buying a guitar and the price you pay is whatever consequences you face. It's all relevant. I don't mind if you choose to just ignore whatever point I propose to you (whether it be because you cbf thinking hard about it, your not at a stage of thought yet where you can decipher a point or whatever reason) I'm just attempting to give you another view on an important aspect of life and hopefully educate somebody, therefore doing the world a favour.

"Exactly the same" and "more extreme on every level" are mutually exclusive. The concepts are fundamentally the same in that there is a cost and a subjective value for either, but beyond that, the concepts are not realistically comparable. Also, your post is so dripping with condescension that it's hard to take you seriously. Do you have a point to make or a chip on your shoulder?

----

Everything to say has mostly been said already. If you can't hear the difference between a starter-pack Ibanez and a premium-quality guitar with similar pickup configuration, good for you. You'll retain more money in your life than the ultra-discerning players.
_______
|||||||||||||||
#116
Supply, Demand, and ultimately, the consumer him/herself.

No guitar is really worth anything. The consumer is the one that ultimately sets the price for pretty much anything and everything.

Sure, people put prices on parts, labor, etc., but if no one's willing to pay the price, those things have to be adjusted in order to make money. If someone IS willing to pay the price, then they're able to be sold at that price. Who makes that decision? Not the maker really, but the people buying the item.

If I made x number of guitars and started selling them one at a time, and noticing that some people were willing to pay a little more than the last person, I would constantly be increasing the price of the next guitar I sold. That would continue to go on until I hit a point that no one was willing to purchase them for. They could be made of the best parts in the universe, but if no one wants to pay over $500 for it, they're worth just that. Or, they could be made out of an oak neck, with a plastic fingerboard, 4 strings, and a cigar box for a body, yet to someone it's a work of art, and they shell out 4K on it. Now it's worth 4k.

People pay upwards of $2k for Gibson and over $3k for some PRS. That's because people are willing to pay the price for them. They know this, and so set the cost of their guitars respectively.

So why are some really good guitars cheaper? Different selling tactic. Many could possibly ask a premium for their guitars because quite simply, some of them arguably perform just as good, if not better than pricier guitars, so why not sell 'em for that much? They specifically target the market that can't afford those 2k+ guitars. Gibson and Fender do this with their Epiphone and Squier brands. ESP does this with their LTD brand. They realize a lot of players out there are not "pros" or are bedroom players and won't shell out 2k for their "high-end" stuff, so they create a market for those people.

Still yet, the consumer ultimately sets the price point. The companies know this and use tried and true tactics to make their instruments more desireable so people think they're worth more, and will pay more, regardless of the quality of the guitar.

"Dime played these." "Slash plays these." "Limited edition." "Limited run." "Custom made."

Arguably the higher priced stuff is supposed to sound/feel better. Many cases it does. Still, these factors are in the eyes, ears, and fingers of the beholder. I've heard of people being given two different guitars, one $400, and the other $2k. Many argued that the more expensive one was much better and came up with every reason under the sky why. Yet secretly, the guitars were actually from the same manufacturer and used exactly the same materials (and cost to make). And most consumers will actually FIGHT to keep the prices high. Why? To defend their purchase of course! It's also a status thing. There's this sort of pride with having a guitar worth a lot of money. It's like a status symbol, apart from name and brand. These same people would be furious if their same guitars started to drop in price, being offered at a fraction of what they paid for.

"You can't get quality like this for less than 1k!" "You get what you pay for!"

I always hated the line, "You get what you pay for." It is, however, both false and true. "You get exactly what's worth it to you," is more accurate.

Sorry, bored at work.
~We Rock Out With Our Cocks Out!: UG Naked Club.~
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Last edited by Hakael at Aug 13, 2009,
#117
Sometimes you pay for the brand name. Also if it's a signature model, people will pay more to have the same guitar as their role model. But I'm not a big fan of Ibanez, If ever I would get an Ibanez it would be a prestige one. It seems like they put better woods in it and better pick ups also. All the middle class Ibanez suck in my opinion. They are a little over rated.
#118
I didn't bother to read any replies but I can tell you now:

On the subject of vintage guitars:

Inflation, Good craftsmanship, Scarcity and demand.

On the subject of new guitars:

Good craftsmanship and demand (Or bad craftsmanship and stupidity)
Always tin your strings.

_____

Don't be afraid to be honest.
#119
Quote by James13v
I would like to pose you with a question however: If I kill an innocent fellow human being and believe, with all my heart, that it is in my personal interest to do so and I stand to gain from it (for what ever reason), does that indeed make it right? Does that make it "worth" what ever inevitable consequences I will face afterwards just because I personally think it is the right thing to do?

Well that depends on your sense of self worth, and how much you deem the life of an innocent is worth; not exactly the same as an inanimate object but i'll play along.

In your scenario you are weighing up the price of another life against your own pretty much, in which case, the value of both is up to your thoughts.

However if you consider the value of a guitar compared to the actual cost of it, then the only thing you can really change is whether you believe the guitar to be of equal (or greater) value to the cost. If it is, then you would buy it, right? If it isn't then you wouldn't

If you believe your life is more valuable than another, then you're a dick and don't deserve a nice guitar anyway.

Quote by James13v

Yes gold, as in the element. This relatively useless metal (unless you want a good conductor...) has been overwhelmingly valuable to man all over the world for literally ages. The main reason for this is because it is pleasing to the eye and not much else. It is a primitive obsession that ridiculous amounts of people have died over; that is how much something that is shiny and pretty means to some people. Looking at how much people will value something like gold, it's not hard to understand why people will spend so much money on a guitar.

Gold is also extremely ductile and malleable and one of the few elements that can be found as a metal habit in nature. It's also fairly resistant to weathering and corrosion which are the reasons for it's use as a currency.
The value of gold is based on the economy as are the price of guitars. At the end of the day the people who sell guitars want to sell as much as they can for as high a price as possible, to gain as much revenue as possible. Guitars are priced by comparing production costs and revenue and if the margin isn't profitable enough then they reduce production and increase price.
^Note: Probably sarcastic
Gear
Schecter Blackjack C1-FR
Few Agile 8-strings
Ormsby Hypemachine 2014 otw!!

Carvin X-100B
axe-fx II

W.A musicians FTW
Quote by crisisinheaven
Deep*Kick. You have destroyed every concept of life I've ever had.
Last edited by Deep*Kick at Aug 13, 2009,
#120
Quote by squareimage
the name on the headstock.

Sure, if that name implies 'made in America.' Almost everybody that works on guitars for big commpanies in the States is a union worker. That means they probably make AT LEAST $15/hr. I'm guessing painters, pickup winders, saw operators, and other people that deal with fine detail or potentially hazardous materials get closer to $20+/hour. Plus you need to pay insurance and benefits to those emploees, meaning you as a business play closer to $30/hour for a guy that makes $20. If a finish uses 15 coats of primer, paint, laquer, and sanding in between (not uncommon from Gibson and PRS) you've probably paid the guy 300 bucks to do it. Add in your markup to cover storage, shipping, and profit, and the paint probably costs the customer $500.

This is why Faded Les Pauls and SGs sound the same as a Standard, but costs $400-$600 less, depending on the finishes in question.

Most offshore companies like Squire and Ibanez use thicker paint, and apply it by machine. Fewer coats (probably 5-7), and no union labour. Probably costs them $25 to paint solid colours, and maybe $70 to do 'high end' transparent bursts.

Quote by IbanezDudeCK
Actually, it may not. Gibson Les Pauls and SG's are the most frequently broken guitars on earth and they cost about $2000 for a LP standard. Just go to the Rants page on Ed Roman's site. Several notable techies and players will testify the same thing. They need updated and aren't as good as other cheaper brands, its just the authenticity of the name that sells the guitars. Even Leslie West, who has been using Gibsons since the 70's wuit the brand because Dean offered to make him a better playing and more durable model at a fraction of the price.

Ed Roman is a douche, both online and in person. He bashes anything he doesn't carry. He used to carry McNaught (which I recommend to anyone that wants a good PRS), and then started talking about how they've 'gone downhill' as soon as McNaught dropped him. The guy just didn't want to be associated with a trash-talking jerkwad.

Quote by IbanezDudeCK

Same goes with Fender. Ibanez and ESP, as well as others, make updated better playing and sounding guitars for less because they know how to use modern methods to produce better quality at a lower price. Also, they don't charge a few hundred dollars for their logo on your headstock

Because we live in a world where 'modern methods' aren't available to 'traditional luthiers'. Martin has a line of guitars made from recycled wood, tops aside. Schecter made an anniversay model entirely by hand. You are wrong.

Quote by IbanezDudeCK

Sure, woods, where its made, binding/no binding, pickups, hardware, all that goes into it, but you can build your own Gibson or Fender that is more comfortable to you, and possible sounds better, and has all the same features at a fraction of the price.

Because you're only paying for materials - not labour. And labour is the most expensive part of any non-tech product.

***

Let me give you guys an analogy that should make it all sink in. I like to cook. I really like to cook. I have a slew of kitchen knives. My most valuable knife is an 8" chef's knife, handmade in West Germany right after WWII. If I were to replace it, the closest would be the Wustoff Classic series, and would set me back about $150.

I'm going to say that again. $150. For a kitchen knife.

I have other knives that size that I got for about $20. They're good, but don't hold and edge as well. The German knife I can use without a cutting board. I can literally hold up a carrot and whack at it, and it slices cleanly and evenly. Cheap knives will not do this. Mind you, this is AFTER my father and my grandmother both spent about 30 years each subjecting this knife to heavy use. It still has almost all of its blade, despite being sharpened and honed more times than anyone can count.

Five years in, and my $20 knife is missing about a quarter of its blade, and it's still not as sharp.

This is why people buy nice things. Because they work better, but also because they stand up to heavy use. If you buy an American Stratocaster, or a Les Paul, or an American Martin, you'll proably never need to replace it, unless you play professionally. Keep it in good shape, and it will sound as good as the day you bought it when your kids are playing it. How many screwed-up prewar Martins have you seen? Maybe 10% of them? How many screwed-up 70s Ibanezes have you seen? Maybe 50% of them? And they're newer!

If you don't want to pay 'unnecessary' prices, don't get those options. A Les Paul Faded Studio goes for about $600 on the used market, and sounds every bit as good as a brand-new $2,000 Les Paul. All they've done is remove the costly things like binding, inlay, and paint.
Last edited by jean_genie at Aug 13, 2009,