#1
hows it going?

As a band we decided to use a new tuning rather than drop D, Slapped some 12's on my spear and tuned to Drop Bb. (low to high) Bb-F-Bb-D#-G-C....

we all love the heavy sound now but it gets muddy, especially if im using the clean channel, Im no Noob! i havent got my gain right up probably 6 or 7, and i have healthy amount of mid and treble dialled in too, no scooped sounds!

Im only using the amps distortion, I've tried using a jackhammer though the clean channe,l not the sound I'm after. Also the crunch channel with the gain right down but still no avail. I get a good sound at home when paying alone but it doesn't work when jamming with the band

Im just wondering if anyone has any tips for getting a crunchier sound ala Arch Enemy, I've looked into what gear they use, quite simple. Michael Amott uses a Krank Krankenstein wich obviously is a better amp than my bugera 333 but they're not that far apart in terms of what kind of amp it is. he also doesn't use an external distortion pedal infront of the amp. Passive pickups are his choice SD-JB in the bridge

so yes! anyone have any tips or ideasfor getting a cruncheir sound

my rig!
this


into this



into this



then this C/W Vintage 30 speakers!


cheers
Spear Gladius II
Squire Standard Stratocaster LTD ED c/w hotrails
Squire Deluxe Strat c/w Hotrails
Dean Baby V
Tanglewood Acoustic
Bugera 333 Head
Laney Cab Vintage 30's
Dunlop Crybaby
Boss RC-2
Boss MT-2 (modified)
Marshall Jackhammer
#2
i think it may be because your tuning is starting to make the guitars blend in with the bass. try turning down the bass on your guitars
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Guitar Rig:
Epiphone Les Paul Standard
Godin Freeway
Korg DTR2000 Tuner
Axon Ax100
Hughes & Kettner Triamp Mk||
Boss V-Wah, CE-5, TR-2

Bass Rig:
Ibanez sr700
Ampeg BA600/115
Boss MT-2
#3
To avoid muddy sounds at lower tunings, turn down the bass eq on your amp. Because the strings are already thick they tend to provide enough bass themselves. you can also try raising your pickups under the highest strings so that they cut through the mix.
#4
That's weird, I had the muddy problem when I had 11's on my guitar in C standard, but I switched to 12's and the problem went away.
#5
Quote by viper_mike
i think it may be because your tuning is starting to make the guitars blend in with the bass. try turning down the bass on your guitars


Quote by Phat Stud 55
To avoid muddy sounds at lower tunings, turn down the bass eq on your amp. Because the strings are already thick they tend to provide enough bass themselves. you can also try raising your pickups under the highest strings so that they cut through the mix.



As i originally said,
Quote by CEREBRAL-INFERN
i have healthy amount of mid and treble dialled in too, no scooped sounds!


do you not think i already have the bass turned down before posting this? seriously!

also the pickups are the right distance away from the strings any closer they would cause me to have ghastly overtones


Quote by -Collapse-
That's weird, I had the muddy problem when I had 11's on my guitar in C standard, but I switched to 12's and the problem went away.


please explain

i used .011 - .048 power slinkeys, it had a plain 'g' string, far too thick for a plain, so i swapped it for a wound string from another guitar, if feels alot better to play although the strings do feel tight, Going up a gauge more would probably feel very uncomfortable for me
Spear Gladius II
Squire Standard Stratocaster LTD ED c/w hotrails
Squire Deluxe Strat c/w Hotrails
Dean Baby V
Tanglewood Acoustic
Bugera 333 Head
Laney Cab Vintage 30's
Dunlop Crybaby
Boss RC-2
Boss MT-2 (modified)
Marshall Jackhammer
Last edited by CEREBRAL-INFERN at Aug 14, 2009,
#6
maybe throw in an OD or a Treble Booster to tighten things up?
Quote by patriotplayer90
Lolz that guy is a noob.

Egnater
Leave it on the press, Depress Depress Taboot Taboot.
#8
Quote by CEREBRAL-INFERN


please explain

i used .011 - .048 power slinkeys, it had a plain 'g' string, far too thick for a plain, so i swapped it for a wound string from another guitar, if feels alot better to play although the strings do feel tight, Going up a gauge more would probably feel very uncomfortable for me


I'm not sure how to explain, I mainly made the comment to point out that it was strange that moving to 12's makes my sound clear, yet it doesn't help you.

I had a set of d'addario 11's on the guitar, and when I was tuned two steps down, the strings were so loose that it made the notes muddy. So when I switched to Ernie Ball Not even Slinkys (12-56) the strings were much tighter, and tightened up my sound and took away the muddyness.

I don't think you need to go any thicker, I was just commenting, since I got such good results from 12's, yet yours isn't helping.

Would upping the input signal help?
I found a OD or cranking the volume on my bad monkey helped muddyness of low tuning.
#9
Quote by Kevin Saale
Is your cab closed back?


It's a closed Cab


Quote by -Collapse-
I'm not sure how to explain, I mainly made the comment to point out that it was strange that moving to 12's makes my sound clear, yet it doesn't help you.

I had a set of d'addario 11's on the guitar, and when I was tuned two steps down, the strings were so loose that it made the notes muddy. So when I switched to Ernie Ball Not even Slinkys (12-56) the strings were much tighter, and tightened up my sound and took away the muddyness.

I don't think you need to go any thicker, I was just commenting, since I got such good results from 12's, yet yours isn't helping.

Would upping the input signal help?
I found a OD or cranking the volume on my bad monkey helped muddyness of low tuning.



do you base your finding while on your own or playing with pthers, i can get the sound i like when playing at home alone at a reasonable level of sound, but when i play with the band and compete with a drimmer i have to adjust the EQ totally different to what i use at home other wise I get lost in the mix.

here is a Vid from tuesday, what do you you think of the tone? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9idApVZ6Buk&feature=channel

Im the dude with the long hair!
Spear Gladius II
Squire Standard Stratocaster LTD ED c/w hotrails
Squire Deluxe Strat c/w Hotrails
Dean Baby V
Tanglewood Acoustic
Bugera 333 Head
Laney Cab Vintage 30's
Dunlop Crybaby
Boss RC-2
Boss MT-2 (modified)
Marshall Jackhammer
#10
bump
Spear Gladius II
Squire Standard Stratocaster LTD ED c/w hotrails
Squire Deluxe Strat c/w Hotrails
Dean Baby V
Tanglewood Acoustic
Bugera 333 Head
Laney Cab Vintage 30's
Dunlop Crybaby
Boss RC-2
Boss MT-2 (modified)
Marshall Jackhammer
#11
Those pickups might be the cause of it, I might be completely wrong as I've never used a Spear before but try putting in some D-Sonics or Lace Drop N' Gain pickups as the current pickups are probably not picking up the low frequency and thus causing your sound to be muddy.
"Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo."
#12
Quote by CEREBRAL-INFERN
bump

tighten up your drty channel with your jackhammer. don't put the gain all the way up. start with the level on full and the gain lower. bring up the gain to taste.
Quote by patriotplayer90
Lolz that guy is a noob.

Egnater
Leave it on the press, Depress Depress Taboot Taboot.
#13
TUBESCREAMER!!!

(or a variant of it anyway...)

Most bands with a tight sound run a TS in front of their amps even when they're not detuned so much.
A metal band?
Gear:
A Guitar with an LFR > Korg Pitchblack > Behringer EQ > Hardwire CM-2 Overdrive Boss SD-1 > Hardwire CR-7 Chorus>
Orange Tiny Terror >
LzR Engineering 212 cab

My other amp can run Crysis
#14
a slight boost in the front of the amp may help, one that is more treble boost would be preferable in this situation. i use a zvex clone of the super duper 2 in 1, it definitely tightens things up.

pickups may be a culprit as well, if you have access to more/different guitars i would recommend trying them and seeing if they sound better. it may be that guitar just doesn't like tunings, could be the amp can't cut in the mix with tunings that low, trying different guitars on the setup will tell you. also, don't just take pickups into consideration, think about the woods and scales length's and other construction as well.

a baritone guitar may be preferable that low as well, they have 2 more fret low on the neck, so it's low string is 'D', not 'E'. this would help stability.

i really like celestion G12K-100's for slack tunings, the held stable very well.

eq pedal in the front? gives more control so you can isolate the problem to eq? i mean, if it can't be solved with an 8 band eq in the front of the amp then it is probably not an eq problem.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#15
OD pedal. maybe an ibanez tube screamer.

also strings might help. you said you put 12s on. i play in drop B with 11s. ernie ball beefy slinkys and i get a nice crunchy tone through a 6505.
#17
I expected more from you reegular UGers...

string tension. that's why home dude got more clarity out of .12's than .11's.

pick up some REAL beefy strings for your bottom end just like you have for your top.

.48's ain't gonna cut it. you might need to build a custom set. Dunlop ZW's have a .6 in them, but a better place to start would be the Ernie Ball Baritone string set, .70's.

disregard all other posts until you try that... if it works, it's a cheap fix.

one last thing to consider, can your neck handle that kinda' weight? you might be looking at setting up your guitar again once they're on, and that lic'd FR you got on there ain't gonna make life any easier either... just so you know what to expect.