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#1
So ive been reading about A=432Hz tuning, and i have to say that I am intrigued with the concept.But every thing that comes up when i Google it is all about Nazi's and the New World Order , Or its about chakras and focusing energy's and one page talked about and i kid you not, the angle and hight of the Great pyramid .

So I guess what I'm asking is, if anybody has any experience with this tuning, and if so what it was.

I would try it myself but the only guitar that has strings on it in my house right now is my electric with a floyd and I'm to lazy to mess with my spring tension right now
#3
The chakras do resonate at specific frequencies. However i'm not too sure on the 432. The pyramid thing was estimated by a dude called graham hancock I think, maybe not. Very much a brainiac dude I gather, however they are only theories.

Most of the wooden tables and stands in my place resonate on low G (no idea the frequency) which also happens to resonate in the back of me pip (much like the tibetan bowls do). I still don't know bout the 432 thing... I'm pretty happy with standard.
#4
Quote by JakdOnCrack
A=432 is what the tuning system used to be. So basically whenever you hear Mozart played modernly, you're hearing it almost half a step up than what it used to be.

See i read about that to and there was no standard at that time, so i have a hard time believing that anybody knew what pitch Mozart was playing at. I mean the "standard" pitch varied from place to place and often times churches would have a higher "base?" pitch because of how you would tune a organ then say you would at a piano at a concert hall. and were talking BIG differences like a couple of semitones worth, theres a chart somewhere online that has all this on going back a couple hundred years.
Last edited by ribbs at Aug 15, 2009,
#5
I tune A 432 (or C 256, A 430.54), but for no reasons other than numeric convenience.

Any stories about Nazis imposing A 440 are unverifiable hogwash. Any stories that A 432 is "in tune with nature" are also unverifiable hogwash.
#6
I would like to know more about 432. My korg tuner has calibrations for +- 12 hertz from 440, why is this?
<Insert Witty Comment Here>

1981 Fender Lead I Seymour Duncan humbucker, Mesa BoogieIIIRectifer, MKIIRhodes,PRS
#7
There is no such thing as "in tune with nature" as long as equal temperament exists, correct me if I'm wrong but equal temperament causes overtone clashes.

And back in the baroque era they tuned in 360. Don't quote me on that though since I don't know the exact number but it was significantly different from 440.
Quote by loinmute
I would like to know more about 432. My korg tuner has calibrations for +- 12 hertz from 440, why is this?

My upright bass instructor tunes his bass in 441, supposedly makes it brighter. It's annoying when I tune it at home to 440 and then get to his place and have to re-tune all over again.
Last edited by pwrmax at Aug 15, 2009,
#8
Quote by pwrmax
There is no such thing as "in tune with nature" as long as equal temperament exists, correct me if I'm wrong but equal temperament causes overtone clashes.


Even-tempered tuning is a piano tuning more than anything. Because of Overtones and harmonics (Even Order, If I recall) in relation to piano strings, someone in the 1800s relalised that if you tuned every instance of the, well say C, on your piano the same, then tune the whole piano to C, then tried to play a song in F, it would sound really bad. So, someone decided to Mathematically solve this tuning problem, thus Even-tempered tuning. So in all pure theory, if a piano is tuned with even-temper, it's mathematically out of tune.
#9
so would tuning to 432 be better than 440? cuz i tune to 440, i dont even understand what the difference
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#10
Quote by bass-man9712
so would tuning to 432 be better than 440? cuz i tune to 440, i dont even understand what the difference
432 is significantly lower in pitch than 440. That's it. Less string tension, lower pitch. If you want that, go for it.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#11
Quote by bass-man9712
so would tuning to 432 be better than 440? cuz i tune to 440, i dont even understand what the difference

432 will sound a little darker but only a little. Tuning to 415 would be the equivalent to tuning a guitar half a step down. Stick with 440, if you need a darker sound then tune half a step down, 432 might irritate the members of the audience with absolute pitch (if there are any).
#13
Quote by pwrmax
432 will sound a little darker but only a little. Tuning to 415 would be the equivalent to tuning a guitar half a step down. Stick with 440, if you need a darker sound then tune half a step down, 432 might irritate the members of the audience with absolute pitch (if there are any).

I never understood how people with perfect pitch can be irritated by non-standard pitches. Unless they're also obsessive-compulsive.
#14
Quote by werty22
I never understood how people with perfect pitch can be irritated by non-standard pitches. Unless they're also obsessive-compulsive.

They can pick out the exact frequencies of any note they hear. If they grew up listening to music tuned in 440 for the first 15 years of their life and getting used to notes that fit within that, listening to something in 432 will sound out of tune to them because they know there's no notes that sounds like that from what they're used to.
#15
Quote by pwrmax
432 will sound a little darker but only a little. Tuning to 415 would be the equivalent to tuning a guitar half a step down. Stick with 440, if you need a darker sound then tune half a step down, 432 might irritate the members of the audience with absolute pitch (if there are any).


it's more like a 1/4 step down but yea kind of the same thing
#16
Quote by pwrmax
They can pick out the exact frequencies of any note they hear. If they grew up listening to music tuned in 440 for the first 15 years of their life and getting used to notes that fit within that, listening to something in 432 will sound out of tune to them because they know there's no notes that sounds like that from what they're used to.

I understand that, I just don't see why it bothers them. Never mind though, it doesn't really matter.
#17
Me and countless other people I know, both in person and on the internet, tense up after hearing a 440hz note after listening to a 432hz note. When we go back to 432hz, we feel calm again. I've done experiments with people who knew nothing about it to make sure it wasn't placebo, and it turns out it's not placebo, 432hz actually does calm most people down. I tune to A=432hz, and I LOVE the tone.
#18
Holy old thread!

It's funny to see posts of mine from a few years back.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#19
Unraveling mysteries about tuning systems here

If you start on a low C on a piano, and go up by 5ths, by the time you get back to C, that C will be 25c off of the low C (a quarter step), which means that the octaves are out of tune, and octaves need to be in tune

These left over 25c are called the Pythagorean comma, and every tuning system has a unique way of dealing with it. Equal temperament makes the octaves match, and distributes 12 notes an equal distance apart.

Heres where our problems come in (keep in mind that cents are a measurement of pitch, and frequency is a measurement of vibration). In every tuning system I know of, octaves match. Therefore, lets say we have A440 (for easy math). the octave below is always 220, and the octave above is always 880.

Now, real quick, I need to talk about the harmonic series. Essentially, every note you play, your actually playing a theoretically infinite amount of pitches. You start at the fundamental (lets say A440). Now, because of the way strings vibrate, we also have a perfect vibrational division at half the strings length. This creates a new node, and is why you can play harmonics at the 12th fret. This note is also an A, but an octave up. Divide the string into thirds, and we get a fifth (E). Another division gives us another A. Yet another division gives us a C#. You can keep going with this until you get all 12 of our western notes, and more

This brings up an interesting side note, because youll notice that the first 6 divisions are all notes of a major chord, perhaps explaining why major tonality is so important to humans.

Anyways, when we are dealing with harmonics, the notes are pure mathematical ratios. To find the perfect fifth of a note, you would multiply the original notes frequency by 3 (because a fifth is a 3-1 ratio), and then divide by 2 (because the fifth the 3-1 finds is actually a fifth+an octave).

Heres where trouble brews. Lets say we have A110. A fifth above that would be E 330, correct? Not in 12TET. Because of the equal frequency distance between every note in 12TET, the E that a piano plays would actually be two cents flat compared to where it naturally wants to be.

Other intervals are worse. Major thirds are 16 cents sharp, minor thirds are 14 cents flat. In fact, every interval has a specific adjustment.

This is why fixed pitch instruments cannot truly play chords in tune

As for A432 or A-anything, it doesnt really matter. Its just a starting point. Every note is just a pure mathematical ratio away from the fundamental. you could start at A435.76854 if you wanted
#20
In the 60's and 70's the tuned their guitars, for the most part, to a quarter step down, in between the 440 and the half-step down, that's what makes is so hard to play to a zeppelin record
And we will weave in and out of sanity unnoticed
Swirling in blissfully restless visions of all our bleary progress
Glowing in radiant madness
#21
Quote by TDKshorty
In the 60's and 70's the tuned their guitars, for the most part, to a quarter step down, in between the 440 and the half-step down, that's what makes is so hard to play to a zeppelin record


Jimmy Page tuned his guitar down in most Zeppelin songs? Can you give me a source please?

By the Way ( ;D) nice John Frusciante pic thingy
#22
Quote by tubatom868686
If you start on a low C on a piano, and go up by 5ths, by the time you get back to C...


I know what you mean, but strictly speaking, if you start from C and go in up fifths, you'll never get back to another C. The Pythagorean comma is the difference between C and B#, twelve fifths minus seven octaves higher.

Each note has a unique name within the chain of fifths (on which note names are based).


Quote by tubatom868686
As for A432 or A-anything, it doesnt really matter. Its just a starting point. Every note is just a pure mathematical ratio away from the fundamental. you could start at A435.76854 if you wanted


Basically this. I can't find any evidence to corroborate such fanciful tales as A 440 being imposed on the international community by the Nazis (it was in use in places even before they existed), and there's nothing really special about A 432.

I do like A 432 (which came from my love of dozens), but now I prefer C 256, which means that a 1 second cycle is itself a C. Using 50-edo (that I also like so much), A comes out to be 427.563 Hz. It'd be 427.724 Hz using Golden meantone referenced from C 256.
#23
Quote by LedHotZepPepper
Jimmy Page tuned his guitar down in most Zeppelin songs? Can you give me a source please?

By the Way ( ;D) nice John Frusciante pic thingy


I don't have a source but try playing tangerine haha. I'm pretty sure the stones tuned down too, I think it was just common
And we will weave in and out of sanity unnoticed
Swirling in blissfully restless visions of all our bleary progress
Glowing in radiant madness
#25
Numerological codswallop has a long history of intertwining with music.

Jehannum's law: if someone tries to link something that isn't the pyramids with the pyramids, stop listening.

The art of suggestion and the placebo effect are very interesting things.
Last edited by Jehannum at May 19, 2011,
#26
Quote by Jehannum
Numerological codswallop has a long history of intertwining with music.

Jehannum's law: if someone tries to link something that isn't the pyramids with the pyramids, stop listening.

The art of suggestion and the placebo effect are very interesting things.
Yawn.
432 music sounds better, don't lie to yourself, you deserve better
#27
Quote by The Judist
Yawn.
432 music sounds better, don't lie to yourself, you deserve better


432 music sounds better? Explain how. Or why.

I hope you're just trolling here. If you seriously believe in this stuff there's not much hope.
#28
Quote by Dodeka
I know what you mean, but strictly speaking, if you start from C and go in up fifths, you'll never get back to another C. The Pythagorean comma is the difference between C and B#, twelve fifths minus seven octaves higher.

Each note has a unique name within the chain of fifths (on which note names are based).

...



Huh?

Gb is F# in the cycle of 5ths. And you will get back to C ... I'm not following .. ans isn't the Pythagorean comma a compensation for thirds?
#29
Quote by LedHotZepPepper
Jimmy Page tuned his guitar down in most Zeppelin songs? Can you give me a source please?


Listen to the songs and figure it out?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#30
Quote by Zen Skin
Huh?

Gb is F# in the cycle of 5ths. And you will get back to C ... I'm not following .. ans isn't the Pythagorean comma a compensation for thirds?


Strictly ascending in fifths never brings you back to the same note (by name), only the same pitch in a circular temperament. So if you cycle through a dozen fifths in 12-edo, you'll arrive at an enharmonic note (assuming octave equivalence), but not the original note itself.
#31
Quote by The Judist
Yawn.
432 music sounds better, don't lie to yourself, you deserve better

lol at subjective opinion being passed off as objective truth.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


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#32
Quote by Jehannum
432 music sounds better? Explain how. Or why.

I hope you're just trolling here. If you seriously believe in this stuff there's not much hope.

If anyone's trolling it's not me on a thread on what topic now?

The hows and whys are irrelevant to my statement that it sounds better.

Go do a controlled double blind test and be honest.
#33
Quote by The Judist
If anyone's trolling it's not me on a thread on what topic now?

The hows and whys are irrelevant to my statement that it sounds better.

Go do a controlled double blind test and be honest.


It's not up to me to prove horsecrap wrong, particularly when the bottom-line defence is "well it sounds better to ME".

By the way. Try 428 Hz. You will find it sounds even better. I can't tell you why; it's a secret. But that's not relevant anyway because it blows 432 Hz out of the water.

You do a controlled double blind test. And be honest.
#34
i suggest you record some chords with standard tuning .
then overdub a solo in in standard tuning.

next re-tune your guitar but set the hertz on your tuner to about 442 and record another solo.
you should notice this solo cuts through the mix more.
it wont sound out of tune. in fact it will sound brighter.
#35
It's a subjective matter. Some people might prefer a more relaxed sound and want to bump their reference pitch down a bit. Others may want a brighter sound and push their pitch upward (various orchestras, Tommy Emmanuel, etc.). Still others don't give a shit either way.
#37
The Greeks believed heavily in mathematical empiricism, meaning they thought nature could be described neatly and perfectly in mathematical terms. Everything was math, from architecture, to the human form to music.

At one point there was some controversy about whether base 10 or 12 was the perfect numbering system. And if you changed the base counting system, the whole idea of octaves (being halves and doubles) itself would changed as well. So you see, it's all arbitrary, looking for perfection where it doesn't exist.

They gave the world some good reference points, but fortunately for everyone, there is no such thing as mathematical perfection.
#38
Quote by Deaddog
At one point there was some controversy about whether base 10 or 12 was the perfect numbering system. And if you changed the base counting system, the whole idea of octaves (being halves and doubles) itself would changed as well.


I don't quite get this bit. The ratio of the octave doesn't depend on which radix we employ.
#39
Quote by Deaddog
At one point there was some controversy about whether base 10 or 12 was the perfect numbering system. And if you changed the base counting system, the whole idea of octaves (being halves and doubles) itself would changed as well. So you see, it's all arbitrary, looking for perfection where it doesn't exist.


This is wrong. Octaves - and music - wouldn't change in the slightest if you changed the base of the number system representing them, only their written representation would change. Moreover, the number 2 is '2' in all positive-whole-number bases apart from binary.
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